Unbridled Capitalism is self-destructive

[Revoltingest]

The definitions written by leftist academics and ideologues that want to redefine fascism as a "far-right" ideology?

It's a way for commies (including socialists) &
liberals to sanitize their beliefs by making any
discomforting word inapplicable.

 

[Estro Felino]

"territorial compromise" is code for letting Putin steal land...and what difference does having similar cultures make when someone is invading your land and raping your children?

It's Ukrainians who restlessly seek the EU help. Who restlessly ask us to make them enter the EU.
They probably ignore that entering the EU implies a modernization of their politics.
They will have to change their constitution, first.

That's why they are much more similar to Russia than the EU countries.

 

[PureX]

Mussolini was a scialist like Donald Trump is a Christian.

 

[Estro Felino]

Mussolini was a scialist like Donald Trump is a Christian.

What is a socialist?
Of course a person born in a very humble and agrarian background is more credible, as a socialist than a person born in a luxurious mansion, and claims to be, somehow, a socialist.

 

[Father Heathen]

It's Ukrainians who restlessly seek the EU help. Who restlessly ask us to make them enter the EU.
They probably ignore that entering the EU implies a modernization of their politics.
They will have to change their constitution, first.

That's why they are much more similar to Russia than the EU countries.

If my country was invaded without provocation by a much larger country that proceeded to torture and murder my people I would seek help, too.

From what I've read Ukraine has already made a commitment to modernization and combatting corruption. I'm sure they realize that's in their best interest.

 

[Estro Felino]

If my country was invaded without provocation by a much larger country that proceeded to torture and murder my people I would seek help, too.

From what I've read Ukraine has already made a commitment to modernization and combatting corruption. I'm sure they realize that's in their best interest.

Zelenskyy himself has a too warlike vision of politics, so I don't think he will be the President of Ukraine when Ukraine joins the EU.

 

[PureX]

What is a socialist?
Of course a person born in a very humble and agrarian background is more credible, as a socialist than a person born in a luxurious mansion, and claims to be, somehow, a socialist.

A lying, power-mad wanna-be dictator is going to pretend to be whatever he thinks he needs to pretend to be to get what he wants. There is no such thing as a "socialist dictator". It's an inherently self-negating term.

 

[Estro Felino]

A lying, power-mad wanna-be dictator is going to pretend to be whatever he thinks he needs to pretend to be to get what he wants. There is no such thing as a "socialist dictator". It's an inherently self-negating term.

You just need to contextualize the advent of Fascism. Imagine a kingdom with an aristocracy and a very restricted and elitist group of people running the entire economy. Owning everything. Lands, factories, banks.
History says it. His speeches during WW1, back when he was a socialist, writing for Il Popolo d'Italia. He said that through patience and political rallies, socialists would have never made social reforms, even if they had been elected parliamentarians. He said that the only way was to militarize society. That's why he wanted Italians to fight the war. At the end of the war, thousand of armed Italians would have formed a clandestine militia, trained to assault the buildings of power. And so it happened. In 1922 all these Fascis troops assaulted town halls, buildings of power. The king was forced to appoint Mussolini as Prime Minister, because he didn't want his royal palace to be stormed and looted. He didn't even want to be dethroned.
Mussolini as PM became a socialist dictator because he used force and violence (committed by the Fascists) to silence and punish all those politicians or "masters", as he called them, that would protest against the labor reforms, and the socialist laws.

 

[PureX]

His speeches during WW1, back when he was a socialist, writing for Il Popolo d'Italia. He said that through patience and political rallies, socialists would have never made social reforms, even if they had been elected parliamentarians. He said that the only way was to militarize society.

He was never a socialist. He even as much as said so, himself. He was a wanna-be militarized dictator. And that is exactly what he became.

 

[Revoltingest]

Mussolini was a scialist like Donald Trump is a Christian.

Exactly!

 

[Estro Felino]

He was never a socialist. He even as much as said so, himself. He was a wanna-be militarized dictator. And that is exactly what he became.

He made a government with fascists, that's true.
But what he did was socialism. He nationalized industries, he redistributed lands among the poor farmers, etc.., etc...
He invented the expression: dictatorship of proletariat.

 

[PureX]

With all due respect, but since my country has invented socialism, I guess that I am entitled to say who is a socialist and who is not.

Your country did not invent socialism. The ideal of a society of humans that all have a say in how the mechanisms of commerce are engaged did not originate in Italy. Not even in Greece. It has been with us since we lived in small mutually sustaining "primitive" tribes. And it is almost certainly the longest functioning form of socioeconomic governance among humans.

Mussolini was a socialist. He made a government with fascists, that's true.
But what he did was socialism.

Fascism is not socialism. They are fundamentally antithetical to each other. Military dictatorships are not socialist. They are fundamentally antithetical to each other. Forced labor camps being called "social communes" by militerized dictators are not socialist. They are fundamentally antothetical to socialism. Capitalist corporate dictatorship are not socialist. They, too, are fundamentally antithetical to socialist ideals.

Any liar, fool, or idiot can call any of these forms of governance "socialist", but that does not make them socialist in any way. Never has and never will, because all of these forms of governance are antithetical to the ideal of societal control: of a society of humans that control their own commercial production and distribution for the mutual benefit of all engaged in it.

He nationalized industries, he redistributed lands among the poor farmers, etc.., etc...
He invented the expression: dictatorship of proletariat.

And you **mod edit** BELIEVED that crap???

 

[metis]

There is no such thing as a "socialist dictator". It's an inherently self-negating term.

Marx and Engles split with much mutual anger over this as Marx felt that if each country worldwide didn't choose his version of socialism, then using force may be necessary. Engles felt that this betrayed the concept that each person is important and needed to be treated with respect. The two men never kissed and made up.

 

[Estro Felino]

Any liar, fool, or idiot can call any of these forms of governance "socialist", but that does not make them socialist in any way. Never has and never will, because all of these forms of governance are antithetical to the ideal of societal control: of a society of humans that control their own commercial production and distribution for the mutual benefit of all engaged in it.

Unfortunately propaganda needs history books to be written.
FDR and Truman, democrats, needed to propagandize that the defeated regime in Italy was a right-wing dictatorship siding with the wealthy Capitalists.
And Americans believed them, evidently.

 

[metis]

Unfortunately propaganda needs history books to be written.
FDR and Truman, democrats, needed to propagandize that the defeated regime in Italy was a right-wing dictatorship siding with the wealthy Capitalists.
And Americans believed them, evidently.

From the Encyclopedia Brittanica:
Soon, however, he [Mussolini] changed his mind about intervention. Swayed by Karl Marx’s aphorism that social revolution usually follows war and persuaded that “the defeat of France would be a deathblow to liberty in Europe,” he began writing articles and making speeches as violently in favour of war as those in which he previously had condemned it. He resigned from Avanti! and was expelled from the Socialist Party. Financed by the French government and Italian industrialists, both of whom favoured war against Austria, he assumed the editorship of Il Popolo d’Italia (“The People of Italy”), in which he unequivocally stated his new philosophy: “From today onward we are all Italians and nothing but Italians. Now that steel has met steel, one single cry comes from our hearts—Viva l’Italia! [Long live Italy!]” It was the birth cry of fascism. Mussolini went to fight in the war...

Fascist squads, militias inspired by Mussolini but often created by local leaders, swept through the countryside of the Po Valley and the Puglian plains, rounded up Socialists, burned down union and party offices, and terrorized the local population. Hundreds of radicals were humiliated, beaten, or killed. In late 1920, the Blackshirt squads, often with the direct help of landowners, began to attack local government institutions and prevent left-wing administrations from taking power. Mussolini encouraged the squads—although he soon tried to control them—and organized similar raids in and around Milan. By late 1921, the Fascists controlled large parts of Italy, and the left, in part because of its failures during the postwar years, had all but collapsed. The government, dominated by middle-class Liberals, did little to combat this lawlessness, both through weak political will and a desire to see the mainly working-class left defeated. As the Fascist movement built a broad base of support around the powerful ideas of nationalism and anti-Bolshevism, Mussolini began planning to seize power at the national level... -- Benito Mussolini | Biography, Definition, Facts, Rise, & Death

 

[Revoltingest]

Fascism is not socialism.

Yes.

They are fundamentally antithetical to each other.

No.
Socialism = The people own the means of production.

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

The people are always represented by government.
Every socialist country has had a fascist government.

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

 

[Stevicus]

Unfortunately propaganda needs history books to be written.
FDR and Truman, democrats, needed to propagandize that the defeated regime in Italy was a right-wing dictatorship siding with the wealthy Capitalists.
And Americans believed them, evidently.

Americans believed that the fascist states of Germany, Italy, and Japan were expansionist, malignant nationalists who wanted to challenge the world order established by other expansionist, malignant nationalist states which happened to get a head start on them. There's little indication that many Americans cared about their economic system or whether they were socialist. But the fact that they were militaristic and nationalistic was the problem. That's what makes them right-wing. Their economy was mixed, neither totally socialist nor totally capitalist.

However, one difference is that (at least in Germany and Japan) there was a tendency to support their own capitalist enterprises. The German government would side with their own capitalist enterprises against foreign competition, and the Japanese also seemed to favor their capitalist enterprises as well. This would indicate that capitalism requires nationalism to flourish. The defeat of international socialism has led to some believing that they could replace it with international capitalism, but that's not working out very well. That's why we're seeing a resurgence of nationalism in multiple countries.

 

[PureX]

Socialism = The people own the means of production.

It has nothing to do with who "owns" anything. But I understand that is a lie that you feel you must tell at every opportunity to promote capitalism.

The people are always represented by government.

Well, that's clearly not the case. Especially since humans have formed nation states and created "civilizations".

Every socialist country has had a fascist government.

More capitalist lies.

 

[Revoltingest]

It has nothing to do with who "owns" anything. But I understand that is a lie that you feel you must tell at every opportunity to promote capitalism.

Using dictionary definitions is a "lie", eh.
That's the lowest & most desperate failure to reason.
The hostility of true believers never fails to amaze.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

The people are always represented by government.

This seems an odd statement for a libertarian to make.

You definitely do understand that governments don't always represent the people, so to equate government control with social control is fallacious.