Understanding the holy scriptures is impossible unless God gives you the interpretation

[Subduction Zone]

No, it's not. You say you are an ex-Christian. Thank you for mentioning that. I thought you were always an atheist.
You do agree don't you that there are many disparities among the various sectors of Christendom, don't you?

How is my argument wrong in any way? You keep making claims that put the burden of proof upon you and you can never support them. You are openly admitting to breaking the Ninth Commandment When you make claims about other people you need to be able to support them.

 

[Subduction Zone]

There are questions, and there are researchers. Not all biblical scholars agree on certain features of the Bible, including passages requiring astute research as to why. Again, it's like the word 'day.' Better than that would be the 7th day in Genesis, when God rested.

I never said that every single Bible scholar supports that. There is a minority. But they cannot seem to find a proper support for it. When it comes to proper historical support where one uses existing historical observations and does not rely on very very weak "well maybe"s that are shown to be wrong with what happened everywhere else it is a clear error.

 

[YoursTrue]

How is my argument wrong in any way? You keep making claims that put the burden of proof upon you and you can never support them. You are openly admitting to breaking the Ninth Commandment When you make claims about other people you need to be able to support them.

I am saying that while there are wild debates in many specters of society, it could be more meaningful to have tact and decorum attached to any argument.

 

[YoursTrue]

I never said that every single Bible scholar supports that. There is a minority. But they cannot seem to find a proper support for it. When it comes to proper historical support where one uses existing historical observations and does not rely on very very weak "well maybe"s that are shown to be wrong with what happened everywhere else it is a clear error.

It wouldn't make sense that the compendium of decision makers putting the scrolls together and stamping them with approval so to speak would include documents that contradict one another. (Why would they allow inaccurate or contradictory documents to be portrayed as accurate? It took time for those compiling the documents for perusal to put the 'stamp of approval' on them.)

 

[YoursTrue]

I never said that every single Bible scholar supports that. There is a minority. But they cannot seem to find a proper support for it. When it comes to proper historical support where one uses existing historical observations and does not rely on very very weak "well maybe"s that are shown to be wrong with what happened everywhere else it is a clear error.

Oh, I'll get back to Herod and the reasonable account of the year of Jesus' birth.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am saying that while there are wild debates in many specters of society, it could be more meaningful to have tact and decorum attached to any argument.

Then you need to stop the endless false accusations. I am serious. When you claim that something is "presumption" that is an attack on others and you need to be able to support it. I have no problem in providing sources that show that apologists are being dishonest. That is why I am so free with my accusations of them. You seem to know that since you never demand to see the evidence. And when evidence is given to you handwaving it away is not a refutation. You need to be able to explain how it is wrong if you will not accept it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Oh, I'll get back to Herod and the reasonable account of the year of Jesus' birth.

If you do make sure that your sources are historical and not from apologists.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It wouldn't make sense that the compendium of decision makers putting the scrolls together and stamping them with approval so to speak would include documents that contradict one another. (Why would they allow inaccurate or contradictory documents to be portrayed as accurate? It took time for those compiling the documents for perusal to put the 'stamp of approval' on them.)

The people that put them together were not scholars. Scholarship where the facts behind the times were fully investigated is very recent. Not until the 1800's. That was when archaeology first began as a science and it was clearly evident in not too long of a time that the evidence that should exist for the Exodus was missing altogether. Oops, I almost forgot that in the late 1700's and early 1800's early Christian geologists were the first ones to refute the Flood myth. We did not have the historical or scientific abilities to check the Bible before then.

 

[YoursTrue]

The people that put them together were not scholars. Scholarship where the facts behind the times were fully investigated is very recent. Not until the 1800's. That was when archaeology first began as a science and it was clearly evident in not too long of a time that the evidence that should exist for the Exodus was missing altogether. Oops, I almost forgot that in the late 1700's and early 1800's early Christian geologists were the first ones to refute the Flood myth. We did not have the historical or scientific abilities to check the Bible before then.

It is very difficult if not impossible to determine what and how things were exactly recorded thousands of years ago. You probably know, however, that it was traditional practice that the scribes were fastidious in copying. I am not a scholar in these matters, and I do read about them sometimes, but I also believe that not that many errors have crept into the transmission of the original scrolls that would make me think they did not reflect the reality of what was happening. Or what God wants his people to know. For instance, the Masoretes were those scribes and scholars that were fastidious in copying the scrolls. "The Masoretes, themselves, recognized the inherent possibility of human error when copying the Hebrew Bible. They attempted to combat errors by adding innumerable notes — masorah — in the margins of manuscripts to safeguard the text. Where they found differences between texts, they determined which opinion was correct." Did Scribes Faithfully Transmit Old Testament Manuscripts? - Josh.org.

 

[YoursTrue]

If you do make sure that your sources are historical and not from apologists.

Either something is true and makes sense or it is not true. and doesn't make sense. Or--something might not be true yet make sense in a certain way. Such as evidence presented at a trial and the jury deciding that the evidence points to a conviction, yet the one ascertained as being guilty was innocent.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Either something is true and makes sense or it is not true. and doesn't make sense. Or--something might not be true yet make sense in a certain way. Such as evidence presented at a trial and the jury deciding that the evidence points to a conviction, yet the one ascertained as being guilty was innocent.

You lack the education to know what "makes sense".- At a trial one cannot present anything and call it evidence. Quite often it has to be run by a judge first. Judges have the education to understand what is reliable evidence and what is not.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It is very difficult if not impossible to determine what and how things were exactly recorded thousands of years ago. You probably know, however, that it was traditional practice that the scribes were fastidious in copying. I am not a scholar in these matters, and I do read about them sometimes, but I also believe that not that many errors have crept into the transmission of the original scrolls that would make me think they did not reflect the reality of what was happening. Or what God wants his people to know. For instance, the Masoretes were those scribes and scholars that were fastidious in copying the scrolls. "The Masoretes, themselves, recognized the inherent possibility of human error when copying the Hebrew Bible. They attempted to combat errors by adding innumerable notes — masorah — in the margins of manuscripts to safeguard the text. Where they found differences between texts, they determined which opinion was correct." Did Scribes Faithfully Transmit Old Testament Manuscripts? - Josh.org.

And scribes made mistakes. There are clear examples of that in the Bible too. For example one scribe might right some notes in a margin. another scribe could interpret those notes as "scripture".

 

[YoursTrue]

And scribes made mistakes. There are clear examples of that in the Bible too. For example one scribe might right some notes in a margin. another scribe could interpret those notes as "scripture".

And translations can be quite different, too. I go with what I have determined to be right for me. Before I studied the Bible in earnest, I would read the Bible, perhaps I mentioned to you that I sang in church, but had no faith in God whatsoever. Yes, there are differences in translation and understanding and explanations, I am aware of that. This has not removed my appreciation for what I have learned.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And translations can be quite different, too. I go with what I have determined to be right for me. Before I studied the Bible in earnest, I would read the Bible, perhaps I mentioned to you that I sang in church, but had no faith in God whatsoever. Yes, there are differences in translation and understanding and explanations, I am aware of that. This has not removed my appreciation for what I have learned.

Studying the Bible should include studying its history.

 

[idea]

The people getting paid by the government, are the people who voted for that government. Biden is trying to forgive student debt so as to get more votes from young voters, whether it is legal or not. It is the same with social security. People vote for people who promise them money stolen from future generations. It is all a Ponzi scheme which is going to crack and fail. Inflation can help pay of the existing debt, but social security is always a rising figure, with rising numbers and amounts forked out, with reduced number of payees.

Considering the high educational levels of other countries, it is a matter of national security to produce our own domestic educated population.

What is a better investment.
Pell grants, scholarships, fafsa - free money that doesn't guarantee they get through school -

Or, pay them to get through school...

I have a few fafsa kids who fail and fail again, don't show up to class, are there just for fafsa$$

There is more incentive to study and learn if the $$ is after the degree is earned.

 

[YoursTrue]

So -- back to Christ's birth, @Subduction Zone. I am going to start slowly because that's the way I learn as well. According to what I have learned, Jesus evidently was born at the time of September-October of the year 2 B.C.E., was baptized about the same time of the year in 29 C.E., and died on Friday, the 14th day of the month of Nisan (March-April), 33 C.E. I will follow up by giving the basis for these dates. We can get into the discussion about Herod and how it involves in this in a while.

 

[YoursTrue]

Studying the Bible should include studying its history.

That is true, I am not saying no.

 

[YoursTrue]

Later -- have a good night.

 

[idea]

Studying the Bible should include studying its history.

To me, I mean what's the point of studying anything?

Without application, there is no point.

Archeological digs and ancient texts are interesting, but I don't see too many applications for them now. Better to spend our limited precious time on cutting edge material.

Kids don't need to understand how to hook up a cart and buggy anymore, need to instead study how to change oil and keep batteries charged.

 

[Subduction Zone]

To me, I mean what's the point of studying anything?

Without application, there is no point.

Archeological digs and ancient texts are interesting, but I don't see too many applications for them now. Better to spend our limited precious time on cutting edge material.

Kids don't need to understand how to hook up a cart and buggy anymore, need to instead study how to change oil and keep batteries charged.

The purpose is often to understand our past. What is wrong with that?