Understanding the holy scriptures is impossible unless God gives you the interpretation

[jimb]

He's one of many I've seen, but still, they're the minority. One of the great benefits of participating in this forum is the chance to witness a large cross-section of people posting mostly anonymously over protracted periods of time, which gives us a pretty good picture of how their various religions or lack of religion affect them.

He's telling you that you're not qualified to interpret scripture if you disagree with him. He wrote, "It means that carnal man, sinful man who does not seek God, cannot know." And who's the carnal, sinful man? Anybody who doesn't interpret scripture as he does.

Another poster on this thread wrote, "Your spiritual sight needs servicing and new glasses" and "Correct spiritual discernment. Many people misunderstand the Bible because they lack this ability" He's also attempting to disqualify a contrary opinion by telling another they're not qualified like he is to understand the meaning of those words.

Many zealous believers attempt to disqualify the opinions of others, especially of critics of scripture, with a large variety of tropes that I have been collecting for years. Here are a selection of them:

Spoiler: reasons why your contrary opinion doesn't count

[6] Scripture is only transparent to biblical scholars

[7] You are not filled with the Holy Spirit

[10] You were obviously never a "true christian"

[11] You don't have enough faith. You have to believe to understand.

[12] You can't criticize the bible because you don't believe or understand it.

[16] You are not TRULY with truth and sincerity seeking God.

[17] You have to know how to translate Hebrew and Greek

[20] Sorry, but attending a church for a few years doesn't make you any sort of Biblical expert.

[22] You have to be familiar with the technical terminologies in the bible before you can comprehend it.

[24] In any other field, like medicine, engineering, technology, electronics, software, computer, unless you have qualifications and experience, you are not allowed to open you mouth.

[25] You have no reference in the knowledge of God to know our experience in Christ Jesus. The Word has to be embedded in one's heart, and that can come from God only.

[28] You're only making a fool out of yourself trying to argue over something that you are not Blessed to understand.

[31] You are not bright or educated enough to spew against Bible

[34] You and others like you can't understand because you're not permitted to unless/until you repent and confess Christ as LORD.

[35] The power of the gospel is designed to frustrate the wisdom of the wise.

[36] It's so damn cute when atheists reach for their Bible to make their point. I love it!

[38] It requires theological understanding. You don't have that. I do.

[41] You get your biblical passages from Atheist web sites.

[42] A copy/paste from Biblehub does not make one a biblical expert.

[43] Don't bother quoting Scripture to me, atheist. You don't even know what you're doing.

[44] Your lack of belief in God coupled with your lack of experience with God means you are not qualified to comment on God.

[47] Out of context arguments are presented by narrow minds that refuse to take in the bigger perspectives and the greater all encompassing truths.

[50] You don't know what Jesus was talking about. Typical atheist.

[53] You have no biblical expertise, your word on the Bible is strictly a layman's opinion.

[55] You are a heretic with little if any understanding of Scripture. If you did study the Bible it was in a Laurel and Hardy College in Tijuana

[67] the typical oblivious understanding of an atheist, in their incessant attempt to try and undermine the wisdom of the Bible.

Yet you tell others that you understand the words but they don't because you have this special insight that you call spiritual discernment.

Let me guess. That's you again.

And how do you know that you have this gift? Because you say so. You might think your god has told you so.

All of this reference to spirituality is a reference to nothing. The terms spiritual discernment and spiritual truth appear to refer to nothing. If that were incorrect, you could share examples of the truths you've discerned and how you know they're true, but you can't. You simply pronounce yourself as having a special gift but can't defend the claim. You cannot produce anything that demonstrates that the claim is about more than nothing.

I don't have to defend my spiritual beliefs to you. Why should I waste my time doing that?

Then STOP DOING IT.

 

[jimb]

The Wiccan Rede, the various deities, the respect for nature, and the openness of Wicca about death and the afterlife are the reasons I find it most appealing. I chose Wicca because it isn't a rigidly structured, patriarchal religion that arrogantly claims to be the only true religion in the world, that arrogantly claims that women must be submissive to their husbands, that views women as inferior to men and should not have spiritual authority over men, or that claims that it is the only religion in the world with the only way to a god or has the only correct answers to theological questions like how to worship a god, pray to a god, or live a moral life. I also like the fact that Wicca doesn't have a Bible, no rigid doctrines to follow, and no official doctrines about what the afterlife will be like. It isn't a religion that arrogantly claims to be the only one with the correct answers to what happens after death.

In fact, each Wiccan decides for themselves what they believe about death and the afterlife. There are a few differing viewpoints found within Wicca in regards to the afterlife, but there isn't an overseeing authority that instructs Wiccans to believe in any particular version of life after death. There are some similar conclusions that many may reach, such as reincarnation, but there is no specific teaching. Wicca is, in my opinion, a very inclusive religion, and I can honestly say that my experience as a Wiccan has been positive. I feel the same way about my beliefs as a druid. I believe that being a Wiccan and a Druid has been a very liberating and positive experience for me. It has without a doubt contributed to the significant improvement of my emotional well-being and mental health, which were severely harmed during the years I was a Christian and believed in the biblical God. I finally have inner peace in my life.

Having said all of this, I'd like to make it perfectly clear that I don't expect you to accept my spiritual beliefs or insist that you should. I would never try to proselytize you and force my beliefs down your throat. In my opinion, you can believe in any deity you like and practice whatever religion you want.

So that is why you're posting your beliefs on a religious forum? LOL.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Yah. That's an example of a general way of "being right because of what you are, rather than what you say". Like the ex wait person who, when I criticized the practice of tipping, said "Have you ever waited tables?" (The answer was "no" and the unstated conclusion was "so you have no right to an opinion"). Like the ex cop who, when I was quoting a case of police misbehavior, said "Have you ever been a police officer?" (Same answer, same conclusion.) Like all the parents that ever responded to a difficult question from a child with "You'll understand that when you grow up". A common factor is the refusal to respond to anything else said. In the first case she actually left the room. It's silly really, as by extension I am not entitled to an opinion on anything unless I have intimate personal experience of it. It would mean that nobody could ever say murder is wrong.

Agreed. There's also, "If you don't vote, you have no right to a political or policy opinion," as if voting confers that right or makes an opinion more valuable. Of course, maybe that's only an American thing, but it's certainly often said there.

Once you became a Wiccan you obviously lost the ability to rationally judge people.

You have no standing to make a judgment like that, which can just as easily be made about you. I find virtually all forms of paganism and dharmic religion, whose adherents are still grounded in the earth and nature, more rational than Abrahamism, where one's focus is diverted from our world to an imagined realm with imagined entities living in it - pretty much the opposite of authentic spirituality, which entails a relationship with nature and a sense of connection to it.

Anyone who says that the reference to spirituality is a reference to nothing is lost.

You're pretty quick to use that word lost.

I guess you aren't aware that that is how you come off to many or most people that aren't also zealous supernaturalists with too much religion.

Ask a Christian and see how often they tell you that without that hope of heaven, life has no meaning and they would feel hopeless. The live as if life is a burden and that they are waiting to be taken away to somewhere better. They live life as if they are waiting at a cosmic bus stop. Bad news for them if they're wrong. Their lives were meaningless and made so by believing their religious doctrine.

Spiritual discernment and spiritual truth are everything.

So you say. I think they're empty words, and you've done nothing to try and disabuse me of that impression. You haven't even tried.

I don't have to defend my claim of having a spiritual gift to you.

I don't think you can.

Why should I waste my time doing that?

Because you want to be believed and can demonstrate the validity of your claims. Failing either of those, you should probably deflect as you have.

It's why I challenge your claims of having any such spiritual gift. I'm pretty certain that I'm correct rejecting claims of spiritual truths and special insights. If I'm correct, such claims are false promises that might seduce somebody who believes you into following in your steps and should be challenged as I have done with you and many others in the past, not one of which could produce evidence that they had any special knowledge.

That's why I challenge your claims, and as I said, if you have any interest in being believed and any evidence to offer, you have an incentive to share it. If you're just blowing smoke, then your answer sounds like the easiest out for you.

Why should I believe that it's not YOU that is lost?

 

[Trailblazer]

Once you became a Wiccan you obviously lost the ability to rationally judge people.

Once you became a Christian who were not supposed to judge people.

Matthew 7:3-5 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

 

[Trailblazer]

You have no standing to make a judgment like that, which can just as easily be made about you.

Indeed. Once he became a Christian he lost the ability to rationally judge people.

 

[jimb]

Agreed. There's also, "If you don't vote, you have no right to a political or policy opinion," as if voting confers that right or makes an opinion more valuable. Of course, maybe that's only an American thing, but it's certainly often said there.

You have no standing to make a judgment like that, which can just as easily be made about you. I find virtually all forms of paganism and dharmic religion, whose adherents are still grounded in the earth and nature, more rational than Abrahamism, where one's focus is diverted from our world to an imagined realm with imagined entities living in it - pretty much the opposite of authentic spirituality, which entails a relationship with nature and a sense of connection to it.

You're pretty quick to use that word lost.

I guess you aren't aware that that is how you come off to many or most people that aren't also zealous supernaturalists with too much religion.

Ask a Christian and see how often they tell you that without that hope of heaven, life has no meaning and they would feel hopeless. The live as if life is a burden and that they are waiting to be taken away to somewhere better. They live life as if they are waiting at a cosmic bus stop. Bad news for them if they're wrong. Their lives were meaningless and made so by believing their religious doctrine.

So you say. I think they're empty words, and you've done nothing to try and disabuse me of that impression. You haven't even tried.

I don't think you can.

Because you want to be believed and can demonstrate the validity of your claims. Failing either of those, you should probably deflect as you have.

It's why I challenge your claims of having any such spiritual gift. I'm pretty certain that I'm correct rejecting claims of spiritual truths and special insights. If I'm correct, such claims are false promises that might seduce somebody who believes you into following in your steps and should be challenged as I have done with you and many others in the past, not one of which could produce evidence that they had any special knowledge.

That's why I challenge your claims, and as I said, if you have any interest in being believed and any evidence to offer, you have an incentive to share it. If you're just blowing smoke, then your answer sounds like the easiest out for you.

Why should I believe that it's not YOU that is lost?

a) I can make any judgement that I want to make. If you want to judge me, be my guest.

b) The realm of God is not imagined; it is real. Simply because you can't perceive it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. -> The problem lies with you <-

c) It's not important to me how I "come off to many or most people". I speak God's truth. If you or others can't accept it, whose fault is that?

d) Life is not a burden to Christians that I know. We rejoice in the Lord!

e) I don't care one iota about your opinion of my spiritual gifts.

d) You don't agree with what I have shared, but you write "if you have any interest in being believed and any evidence to offer, you have an incentive to share it". Are you really that confused?

e) I don't care if you think I'm lost. As long as God knows that I am His adopted child, that is all that counts.

 

[Trailblazer]

He's telling you that you're not qualified to interpret scripture if you disagree with him.

I know. I already asked him if that is the reason I am unqualified, and of course I did not get a answer.

He wrote, "It means that carnal man, sinful man who does not seek God, cannot know." And who's the carnal, sinful man? Anybody who doesn't interpret scripture as he does.

Correct. In his mind the carnal man, the sinful man who does not seek God, is anyone who doesn't interpret scripture as he does.

In reality, the carnal sinful man is a man who seeks sex and commits fornication rather than seeking God.
Didn't Jesus say "go and sin no more" ? I see a helluva lot of men who are looking to sin in dating sites and the bulk of them are Christians.
One of these Christians who was about 12 years younger than me wanted a 'friend with benefits' and he propositioned me for sex. After I told him that I don't have sex out of wedlock this is what he said:

"I understand you're not looking for the sex partner in a friend, and you don't have to explain why. Its just not something your looking for and I'm guessing it may compromise your moral and spiritual we'll being. I'm a flawed Christian and that's where I happen to be after a 8 month break from dating. Its just where I'm at and I'd like to find my forever person, but I feel she should be withing five years of my age. You mentioned in your profile you'd have to be attracted and want transparency. So, I thought I'd take a shot."

I appreciated his honesty and at least he knew he wasn't supposed to behave this way. The other Christian men I meet on dating sites do not even think what they are doing is wrong for a Christian, that is how far they have strayed from the actual teachings of the Bible.

Another poster on this thread wrote, "Your spiritual sight needs servicing and new glasses" and "Correct spiritual discernment. Many people misunderstand the Bible because they lack this ability" He's also attempting to disqualify a contrary opinion by telling another they're not qualified like he is to understand the meaning of those words.

Many zealous believers attempt to disqualify the opinions of others, especially of critics of scripture, with a large variety of tropes that I have been collecting for years. Here are a selection of them:

Spoiler: reasons why your contrary opinion doesn't count

[6] Scripture is only transparent to biblical scholars

[7] You are not filled with the Holy Spirit

[10] You were obviously never a "true christian"

[11] You don't have enough faith. You have to believe to understand.

[12] You can't criticize the bible because you don't believe or understand it.

[16] You are not TRULY with truth and sincerity seeking God.

[17] You have to know how to translate Hebrew and Greek

[20] Sorry, but attending a church for a few years doesn't make you any sort of Biblical expert.

[22] You have to be familiar with the technical terminologies in the bible before you can comprehend it.

[24] In any other field, like medicine, engineering, technology, electronics, software, computer, unless you have qualifications and experience, you are not allowed to open you mouth.

[25] You have no reference in the knowledge of God to know our experience in Christ Jesus. The Word has to be embedded in one's heart, and that can come from God only.

[28] You're only making a fool out of yourself trying to argue over something that you are not Blessed to understand.

[31] You are not bright or educated enough to spew against Bible

[34] You and others like you can't understand because you're not permitted to unless/until you repent and confess Christ as LORD.

[35] The power of the gospel is designed to frustrate the wisdom of the wise.

[36] It's so damn cute when atheists reach for their Bible to make their point. I love it!

[38] It requires theological understanding. You don't have that. I do.

[41] You get your biblical passages from Atheist web sites.

[42] A copy/paste from Biblehub does not make one a biblical expert.

[43] Don't bother quoting Scripture to me, atheist. You don't even know what you're doing.

[44] Your lack of belief in God coupled with your lack of experience with God means you are not qualified to comment on God.

[47] Out of context arguments are presented by narrow minds that refuse to take in the bigger perspectives and the greater all encompassing truths.

[50] You don't know what Jesus was talking about. Typical atheist.

[53] You have no biblical expertise, your word on the Bible is strictly a layman's opinion.

[55] You are a heretic with little if any understanding of Scripture. If you did study the Bible it was in a Laurel and Hardy College in Tijuana

[67] the typical oblivious understanding of an atheist, in their incessant attempt to try and undermine the wisdom of the Bible.

Nice collection. I also collect things from this forum and I have a large collection.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

The realm of God is not imagined; it is real. Simply because you can't perceive it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist

Simply because you claim it is real doesn't make it so. I don't believe that you are perceiving anything more than your own endogenous mental state and misinterpreting what it means. Absent any evidence to the contrary from you, I have no reason to modify that opinion.

-> The problem lies with you <-

What problem? That I'm not steeped in religion and don't imagine gods or believe without justification? That's liberation.

I speak God's truth. If you or others can't accept it, whose fault is that?

But you have no truth, just claims of it. An idea cannot be called correct unless it's demonstrably correct.

I don't care one iota about your opinion of my spiritual gifts.

Obviously.

I don't care if you think I'm lost.

Yes, I know.

It doesn't matter to me that you believe what you believe. It must meet some need in you, so maybe it's a fair trade in your case. I'm happy not having such a need. My world makes sense to me just by applying reason properly to the evidence of my senses and to the dictates of my conscience. They tell me what is true, what is honorable, and what is worthy of my time and attention. They tell me how the world works and what brings lasting contentment, that is, how to get what I want in the short term, and what makes me happy in the long term, the first being intelligence (identifying and solving smaller, more immediate problems), the latter being wisdom (solving the ultimate problem of how best to live).

You don't agree with what I have shared, but you write "if you have any interest in being believed and any evidence to offer, you have an incentive to share it". Are you really that confused?

It is you that is confused:

You: "I don't have to defend my claim of having a spiritual gift to you. Why should I waste my time doing that."

Me: "Because you want to be believed and can demonstrate the validity of your claims. Failing either of those, you should probably deflect as you have."

You: You don't agree with what I have shared, but you write "if you have any interest in being believed and any evidence to offer, you have an incentive to share it."

Also you: "Are you really that confused?"

So who is confused here? Not me. I understand all of this perfectly well. You're making claims that you can't support and I'm pointing out that when you use the word spiritual, you actually mean nothing at all. You've painted yourself into a corner and are doubling down with deflection, first with calling explaining something that you claim is precious a waste of your time, then (paraphrasing now), "I don't care what you think," and now, "You're confused."

Why are you in conflict with so many people here? You make unsupported claims, they make dispassionate counterarguments which you dismiss out of hand and repeat your claim but more emotionally often resulting in you announcing that you have put them on ignore. Is that OK with you?

 

[jimb]

Simply because you claim it is real doesn't make it so. I don't believe that you are perceiving anything more than your own endogenous mental state and misinterpreting what it means. Absent any evidence to the contrary from you, I have no reason to modify that opinion.

What problem? That I'm not steeped in religion and don't imagine gods or believe without justification? That's liberation.

But you have no truth, just claims of it. An idea cannot be called correct unless it's demonstrably correct.

Obviously.

Yes, I know.

It doesn't matter to me that you believe what you believe. It must meet some need in you, so maybe it's a fair trade in your case. I'm happy not having such a need. My world makes sense to me just by applying reason properly to the evidence of my senses and to the dictates of my conscience. They tell me what is true, what is honorable, and what is worthy of my time and attention. They tell me how the world works and what brings lasting contentment, that is, how to get what I want in the short term, and what makes me happy in the long term, the first being intelligence (identifying and solving smaller, more immediate problems), the latter being wisdom (solving the ultimate problem of how best to live).

It is you that is confused:

You: "I don't have to defend my claim of having a spiritual gift to you. Why should I waste my time doing that."

Me: "Because you want to be believed and can demonstrate the validity of your claims. Failing either of those, you should probably deflect as you have."

You: You don't agree with what I have shared, but you write "if you have any interest in being believed and any evidence to offer, you have an incentive to share it."

Also you: "Are you really that confused?"

So who is confused here? Not me. I understand all of this perfectly well. You're making claims that you can't support and I'm pointing out that when you use the word spiritual, you actually mean nothing at all. You've painted yourself into a corner and are doubling down with deflection, first with calling explaining something that you claim is precious a waste of your time, then (paraphrasing now), "I don't care what you think," and now, "You're confused."

Why are you in conflict with so many people here? You make unsupported claims, they make dispassionate counterarguments which you dismiss out of hand and repeat your claim but more emotionally often resulting in you announcing that you have put them on ignore. Is that OK with you?

I don't care what you believe. Your tone of superiority says it all. And clearly you don't understand "faith", since you wrote "Absent any evidence to the contrary from you...

Now you're on "ignore", as I have no interest in reading any more of your egocentric posts.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

I have studied the Bible and the scriptures of many religions, and cross references finding many many problems with the text.

OK so how about instead of unreferenced personal claims, why not share some of those contradictions and we can discuss them. Proofof your point to another respondant here about "intelligence and wisdom" requires evidence does it not?

 

[Trailblazer]

Now you're on "ignore", as I have no interest in reading any more of your egocentric posts.

Has anybody here ever noticed that as soon as someone does not agree with @jimb they go on "ignore."

I'd put you on "ignore" if had no interest in reading any more of reading any more of your egocentric posts, but I am having too much fun reading them.
After all, this forum is the only entertainment I have right now, aside from watching TV.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Has anybody here ever noticed that as soon as someone does not agree with @jimb they go on "ignore."

Yes. I just wrote, "Why are you in conflict with so many people here? You make unsupported claims, they make dispassionate counterarguments which you dismiss out of hand and repeat your claim but more emotionally often resulting in you announcing that you have put them on ignore." That was followed immediately by this:

Now you're on "ignore"

That's probably a good idea. You didn't benefit from anything I wrote to you and you were frequently triggered by ordinary debate. You're here to preach, not listen.

I hope you don't mind that I HAVEN'T put you on ignore and expect to continue responding to your posts even if you don't see those responses. They're not really for you anyway. I am fully aware that you get nothing from them. Hopefully, some others do.

The critical thinker doesn't care much about what unsupported beliefs others have. He cares what others know and can demonstrate to be worthy of his belief as well. Your responses to my posts to you were of no value to me, since you only give opinions. So, it's fine if I've seen the last of them.

I don't care what you believe.

Yes, I know. You never bothered to address any of it.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Has anybody here ever noticed that as soon as someone does not agree with @jimb they go on "ignore."

He claims that he put you and others on ignore, but he still responds to your and their posts.

 

[Ajax]

I don't care what you believe.

You are really unbelievable, aren't you? I wonder what on earth is your purpose of being in a discussion forum, if you don't want to discuss., you know all and you can not accept any criticism with valid logical arguments for the myriad of contradictions in the Bible. The fact that you don't reply to everyone's questions can only mean that you are unable to defend the contradictions, except replying with your usual nonsense of "you don't have a spiritual gift". All Christian denominations claim to have this "spiritual gift", but no more than one can possibly have it and that one is very questionable too. Your best possible chances are 1 in 45,000 to have it, if such thing exists. Being a little humble is a virtue in the Bible.

 

[YoursTrue]

It is unfortunately too common for believers of one 'faith' to seriously question the rational judgement of others who do not believe as they do. Every different religion or belief system justifies their own belief based on what they believe.

I do not believe in the Wiccan, because it is another ancient worldview based on a limited perspective. I prefer a Universalist perspective that considers the different religions and belief systems in the culture and time they originate, as the progressive spiritual evolution of humanity.

You say you prefer a Universalist perspective that considers the different religions and belief systems in the culture and time they originate. What prompts you to believe that your embraced perspective is true?

 

[YoursTrue]

You are really unbelievable, aren't you? I wonder what on earth is your purpose of being in a discussion forum, if you don't want to discuss., you know all and you can not accept any criticism with valid logical arguments for the myriad of contradictions in the Bible. The fact that you don't reply to everyone's questions can only mean that you are unable to defend the contradictions, except replying with your usual nonsense of "you don't have a spiritual gift". All Christian denominations claim to have this "spiritual gift", but no more than one can possibly have it and that one is very questionable too. Your best possible chances are 1 in 45,000 to have it, if such thing exists.

I'm almost kidding here, but doesn't evolution claim great odds of something happening?

 

[Kfox]

Which basically means only the Messiah can truly reveal the scriptures (Isaiah 29:18).

In my opinion.

What’s the use of having scriptures if nobody can understand them? Why doesn’t God just tell everyone what he wants them to know?

 

[YoursTrue]

What’s the use of having scriptures if nobody can understand them? Why doesn’t God just tell everyone what he wants them to know?

Good point, because some can understand the scriptures to the best of their ability. This is exemplified by the experience of the evangelizer and the Ethiopian eunuch:

*****Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Go south to the road==the desert road--that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian eunuch, an important official in charge of all the treasury of the Kandake (which means “queen of the Ethiopians”). This man had gone to Jerusalem to worship, and on his way home was sitting in his chariot reading the Book of Isaiah the prophet. The Spirit told Philip, “Go to that chariot and stay near it.”
Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Pilip asked.

“How can I,” he said, “unless someone explains it to me?” So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

This is the passage of Scripture the eunuch was reading:
“He was led like a sheep to the slaughter,
and as a lamb before its shearer is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
In his humiliation he was deprived of justice.
Who can speak of his descendants?
For his life was taken from the earth.”
The eunuch asked Philip, “Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?” Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.*****

 

[jimb]

He claims that he put you and others on ignore, but he still responds to your and their posts.

Putting someone on "ignore" means that I can read a person's posts if and when I feel like it. I'm not interested in a person's negativity because s/he has no understanding of spiritual things. They boast about logic and proof, but in reality they are ignorant.

 

[Kfox]

Good point, because some can understand the scriptures to the best of their ability.

But if the best of their ability is sub-par, why have scriptures? One would think the wrong information can be worse than having no information at all!