Unfair opinions about Islam :(

[LuisDantas]

But you did!

I most definitely did not. You may have projected some untold meaning between the lines, out of mistrust or habit, but I did not.

You stated that Indians ask for nuclear weapons to scare Pakistan, which is a flawed and underhanded statement, illustrating your typical liberal pro Pakistan bias.

I have a pro Pakistan bias? That sure surprises me, particularly seeing how I find the country's very existence a grave mistake to begin with.

 

[Poeticus]

I most definitely did not.

You did, though. This is what you wrote:

When Indian people take the streets to demand building nuclear weapons in order to scare Pakistani, it seems obvious to me that the problems are neither settled nor truly internal.

..."Indian people take the streets to demand building nuclear weapons in order to scare Paksitan"...? What's next...everything Pakistan suffers from is the fault of the polytheist heathens that neighbor the acronym?

 

[LuisDantas]

You guys really must be kidding, or perhaps acting out of unhealthy nationalism, to misinterpret me so utterly!

I stand by what I said.

 

[Poeticus]

You guys really must be kidding, or perhaps acting of unhealthy nationalism, to misinterpret me so utterly!

...well, you are more than welcome to explain or expand on what you were trying to say.

 

[Aupmanyav]

And no, I'm not justifying the murder of those Shia and Christian couple you mentioned. If it was within my power, I would have never allowed it to happen.

I understand that. I do not mean that all Muslims are fiends. But the reasonable ones, though in majority, do not have any influence over events. And what is written in Qur'an or how Mohammad acted does not give the right model - "Good to know that you have killed the non-believers", etc. If Allah is all merciful, why should he punish the non-believers? Why can't he live in peace with them? And if Allah can't live in peace with the non-believers, how can one accept the Muslims to do that?

 

[LuisDantas]

If you need it, all right, I will spell it out.

It is painfully obvious that Pakistan and India have not reached a situation of peaceful side-by-side existence after partition. And that there is even enough mistrust to make the mobilization for nuclear weapons a reality is a sad sign of how far we are from that much-needed peace.

Why you see that as an endorsement of Pakistan over India, I have no idea.

But I sure will try to remember from now on how trigger-happy India sympathisers on this matter can be, to the point of assuming support for Pakistan where there is literally none...

We really needed (and still need) more Badshah Khans and Gandhis. Not to protect India or Pakistan from "foreigners", but to stop them from thinking among such divisive lines in the first place.

 

[Deidre]

Some of the unfair opinions are however proved by crazy terrorists. These terrorists are ignorants who sees only verses revealed about war(in context) and interpret these verses as a license to kill people.
The terrorists are biggest enemies of islam and muslims, because they do the most harm. Turning people away from the religion, portraying it as religion of violence. May Allah guide them.

I lean in agreement with you, but that doesn't seem to be the general consensus in the last couple of pages here, though.

 

[Poeticus]

@LuisDantas
It was the way you worded it (I take it that English is not your first language), therefore the post was not comprehended the way you intended to be...at least on my part. After you expanded on what you meant, it does not seem to be an endorsement of Pakistan over India. However, that sentence about Indians taking to the streets to demand nuclear weapons to scare Pakistanis still seems a little odd. If you could expand on that specific statement, that would be awesome.

 

[LuisDantas]

I lean in agreement with you, but that doesn't seem to be the general consensus in the last couple of pages here, though.

I technically agree as well, but I don't think that is enough. Islam must stand firm against its own potential for misguiding people into violence.

 

[LuisDantas]

@LuisDantas
It was the way you worded it (I take it that English is not your first language), therefore the post was not comprehended the way you intended to be...at least on my part. After you expanded on what you meant, it does not seem to be an endorsement of Pakistan over India. However, that sentence about Indians taking to the streets to demand nuclear weapons to scare Pakistanis still seems a little odd. If you could expand on that specific statement, that would be awesome.

Uh, sorry, but I don't think language barriers played ANY role at all on this, and I do find it rather scary that the two of you jumped to conclusions just like that.

I most definitely still stand by what I said. That much warier of people who claim to be taking India's defense into consideration now.

 

[Deidre]

I technically agree as well, but I don't think that is enough. Islam must stand firm against its own potential for misguiding people into violence.

I agree. But, how should 'Islam' do that? When so many people who are not followers of Islam (or former followers), believe that the Qur'an is a corrupt book designed to build a violent coalition against non-supporters, masquerading as a religion...I'm not so sure anyone or anything will convince them otherwise.

 

[LuisDantas]

I agree. But, how should 'Islam' do that? When so many people who are not followers of Islam (or former followers), believe that the Qur'an is a corrupt book designed to build a violent coalition against non-supporters, masquerading as a religion...I'm not so sure anyone or anything will convince them otherwise.

Since you are asking, the only workable way I see is by nurturing and spreading an attitude of emphasis on loving practice over literalism and mistrust.

Relying on scripture over personal discernment is all but certain to be disastrous - and for that exact reason Islam is often its own worst enemy, IMO.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I do not think it turned out to be a good thing overall.

Hindus did not ask for partition. Even all Muslims were not in favor of a partition (although they did not constitute the majority among Muslims). Badshah Khan was dead against it. When he heard that Congress has accepted partition, he told Nehru "You have given us to wolves".

"The Muslim League, which functioned under state patronage, in contrast, organized "Deliverance Day," celebrations (from Congress dominance) and supported Britain in the war effort. When Linlithgow, met with nationalist leaders, he gave the same status to Jinnah as he did to Gandhi, and a month later described the Congress as a "Hindu Organization." Partition of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Partition was not a good thing, but what happened later in Pakistan is even worse. The Punjabi atrocities in Bengal led mass murders of Bengali population and to the formation of Bangladesh. Encouragement to fundamentalists in Pakistan has resulted in regular killing of Shias, creation of Taliban, war in Afghanistan, and now the Pakistan Army's effort to suppress Taliban results in killings on both sides, the 150 school boys killed in Peshawar being an example.

Indians have now reconciled to Pakistan. We have some 180 million Muslims, the third largest population of Muslims in the world, which forms 14.5% of our population. They are generally happy here. Kashmir, our Muslims majority state, will have a Muslim-Hindu government for the first time in about a fort-night's time. But Pakistan has not yet reconciled to Bangladesh separation.

 

[Poeticus]

I agree. But, how should 'Islam' do that? When so many people who are not followers of Islam (or former followers), believe that the Qur'an is a corrupt book designed to build a violent coalition against non-supporters, masquerading as a religion...I'm not so sure anyone or anything will convince them otherwise.

Here's an interesting Muslim perspective:

 

[Deidre]

Since you are asking, the only workable way I see is by nurturing and spreading an attitude of emphasis on loving practice over literalism and mistrust.

Relying on scripture over personal discernment is all but certain to be disastrous - and for that exact reason Islam is often its own worst enemy, IMO.

I agree that one could read the Bible or the Qur'an...and if applying literality to it, could come away thinking that God is one messed up deity. lol But, as we know...there are a number of interpretations, etc as to how to view these books. Having said that, one of the things that doesn't let me move further forward into Islam, is the idea that the Qur'an is considered the infallible word of God. I don't believe it's an infallible/flawless book, when mankind put it together. There is a lot of beauty in the Qur'an...a lot of difficult passages, as well. I can look at the Qur'an, as I once did the Bible...as a collection of stories, that has merit, but is not infallible.

I can choose to believe that God is infallible. But, not a book about him. Not sure why that is a necessary tenet in the Abrahamic faiths.

 

[Deidre]

Here's an interesting Muslim perspective:

This is something--thank you!

 

[LuisDantas]

To be fair, I honestly don't know whether what I am suggesting is even possible. For all I know I am calling for the destruction of Islam as a religious movement guided by the Quran.

The bottom line is that I just don't trust reliance on scripture, nor do I see how it could ever not lead to disaster.

 

[England my lionheart]

I would never have known how Islam is viewed in the states, until I have taken an interest in it myself, and have shared that with a few of my offline friends, and online ones, as well. I'm not expecting anyone to support my decision to explore Islam, but I'm sadly surprised by the negative comments, and nasty remarks actually, by some.

To people who suffer from persecution of any type because of your faith, giving you a hug here.

I sometimes don't know how to answer people when they offer nasty remarks about Islam, I try my best to share what the faith is actually about, but they don't want to listen. Is it best to just stay quiet? Idk. I never dealt with this really, as a Christian. (except many mock Christians, I know)

Unfair opinions include "Islam is a religion of peace"

 

[Aupmanyav]

India has always been on the defensive, your biases need a little fact checking.

It is not because of Pakistan that we wanted nuclear capability, it was because of China and their 1962 war with us. India being in the non-aligned group had no other option.

 

[Deidre]

Unfair opinions include "Islam is a religion of peace"

Hmmm.
Well, how about peaceful Muslims, like my friends who came to the states from Syria? I love them, they are generous, loving, joyful...they condemn ISIS, and all of the violence that extremists support claiming that it is on behalf of Islam. Do you believe that they choose to ignore the dark parts of their religion's history?

I ask that, because when I was a Catholic...(I was indoctrinated into the faith from childhood)...I either ignored or explained away the 'inconvenient truths' of my religion. And celebrated the 'good parts.'