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Basically because they treated most other religions that way, a medieval legal loophole if you like. For the most part, the rulers were pragmatists.
Jizya was basically a conquered people tax, tribute. It was absolutely par for the course, standard behaviour at the time. To paint it as anything other than standard practice in late antiquity is mistaken. (Some leaders actually tried to prevent people from converting because they were more interested in revenue than expanding the faith.)
Progressive Muslims today tend to equate it to tax, the non-Muslim equivalent of Zakat. "until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." and that subdued means accepting the authority of the state. Historically though, the tax has been punitive.
How Islam is treated in comparison to other things is essential in deciding if it is fair or unfair.
You made the point that "Islam had more excessive violence and intolerance towards others than basically all other well known religions", which I consider to be an incorrect and unfair assessment over 1500 years of history.
This is not to say Muslims regimes have always been wonderful, cuddly and chivalrous, just that I don't see many points in history when they can be described as being more "excessively violent and intolerant" than their contemporaries. There are times when the have been above average, other times when they have been below but I just don't see the justification for considering them historically worse.
If you view Islamic societies as having a 1400 year history of being more violent and more intolerant than other societies, then you have a huge amount of evidence to support the contention that Islam is detrimental to society. With 1400 years of evidence then it is case closed. On the other hand, if you view Islamic societies as being no better or worse than their contemporaries over the course of their histories, then you are left with more optimistic possibilities.
Some Muslims look at Islam and sees the kind deeds of Muhammed, his compassion and tolerance, the less savoury incidents are contextualised and mitigated. Others see rules, rigidity and divine anger, where the less savoury aspects are maximised at the expense of the compassion. In religion, you see what you want to see.
For outsiders looking in, if you view its history as uniquely violent, then you are going to see everything that supports this view.
Going back to the OP, people who take the compassionate Muhammed as their guide rightly get upset when people say 'your religion is bad because A,B,C'. And they say 'A,B,C play no part in my religion. But the criticising person will say 'yes they do - look at my evidence for Islam being uniquely violent and intolerant'. This is why comparison is all important.
If people say 'well historically, it has been similar to others but it can't cope with modernity...' that is a different argument. How Islam evolves to meet changes in society is an ongoing process. The West is always held up as the shining example of how society should be, but the last hundred or so years in the West have been horrendously violent.
The normative values of the West are good, but in practice there is a huge amount to be critical of. A Muslim might look at the West and see colonialism, warfare, greed, inequality and hypocrisy. When they are then lectured about how superior the West is they might think 'hold on a second...'
Maybe the West will go back to industrial scale mass murders in the not too distant future, maybe there will be a new Islamic caliphate that addresses inequality better and remains more stable. Maybe the opposite will happen. Perhaps a strong binding ideology will be a good thing, maybe it will be a bad thing. Who knows?
We can't judge things based on a very short timescale so the 'modernity' thing will play itself out in due course. Based on the longer timescale, I still don't see how Islamic societies can be judged as being more violent and intolerant.
Buddhism, historically seems to have been a more peaceful religion, but even Buddhist countries had their despotic leaders and wars. And technically Kublai and Genghis Khan were Buddhist so go figure.
Genghis Khan wasn't a Buddhist.Buddhism, historically seems to have been a more peaceful religion, but even Buddhist countries had their despotic leaders and wars. And technically Kublai and Genghis Khan were Buddhist so go figure.
The Buddha in his historic statements was not a complete pacifist, he was somewhat supportive of some warlords fighting wars in his region and times, telling them rather to be honourable warriors rather than not to fight, at least from what I've gathered on other Buddhist websites.
Sure, no doubt about it. You see it everywhere in the Muslim world and beyond.But the message of Islam is still peace and hope.
I'm glad you are at least aware of this. Personally, it makes him a huge hypocrite and hypocrites are reviled in Islam. Go figure.I've been reading about Muhammad's life and I wonder why there is a contradiction of sorts between the actions he took against "apostates" and pagans...if one of the core principles of Islam is to not force religion on anyone. Muhammad made a point during his battles, of making examples of "backsliders" and what he considers traitors, by having them put to death.
Forgiveness is all very well, Deidre, but would it not have been far more noble if he had forgiven his enemies? It's hard to fight someone who is smiling at you and handing you a flower.So you know, I don't overlook this part of his history but maybe this is what he meant by repentance. He asked Allah for forgiveness a lot, so we may never know that end of it.
People really need to get over these limited ideas of what perfection is.But the message of Islam is still peace and hope. An imperfect person delivering a perfect message.
I'm glad you are at least aware of this. Personally, it makes him a huge hypocrite and hypocrites are reviled in Islam. Go figure.
Forgiveness is all very well, Deidre, but would it not have been far more noble if he had forgiven his enemies? It's hard to fight someone who is smiling at you and handing you a flower.
People really need to get over these limited ideas of what perfection is.
Sure, no doubt about it. You see it everywhere in the Muslim world and beyond.
I'm glad you are at least aware of this. Personally, it makes him a huge hypocrite and hypocrites are reviled in Islam. Go figure.
Forgiveness is all very well, Deidre, but would it not have been far more noble if he had forgiven his enemies? It's hard to fight someone who is smiling at you and handing you a flower.
People really need to get over these limited ideas of what perfection is.
I agree that this is a problem, but not all Muslims who aren't "extremists" are innocent. I would strongly argue that those Muslims who chose to speak out against the recent cartoonists who were brutally murdered instead of placing all blame squarely on the murderers are not completely innocent. That was startling to me that they were unable to ignore the cartoons in the light of the atrocities committed by others who were offended by them. I know many Muslims who are "innocent" like you say, but they were the first of my friends to honor the cartoonists and refuse to complain about the drawings. The entire Islamic community has a responsibility to show the world that no amount of offense toward anyone's faith should ever justify violence. Once that message is spread by every Imam in this country, Islam will be treated with more respect.I would never have known how Islam is viewed in the states, until I have taken an interest in it myself, and have shared that with a few of my offline friends, and online ones, as well. I'm not expecting anyone to support my decision to explore Islam, but I'm sadly surprised by the negative comments, and nasty remarks actually, by some.
To people who suffer from persecution of any type because of your faith, giving you a hug here.
I sometimes don't know how to answer people when they offer nasty remarks about Islam, I try my best to share what the faith is actually about, but they don't want to listen. Is it best to just stay quiet? Idk. I never dealt with this really, as a Christian. (except many mock Christians, I know)
hard to tell, but are u being sarcastic?
Perfection meaning we should strive to be ''agape'' love for all. That’s how I view it.
What do you make of this?
Was Muhammad Really a Man of Peace? - Muslim Character - counsels - OnIslam.net
Sorry but your opinion on Islam is relevant to this discussion. A balanced view treats all religions by the same standards, not an especially critical one to Islam only.