Unfair opinions about Islam :(

[Lyndon]

Ok what about the ancient Israelites after Moses, they founded their religion and occupation of Palestine by a violent struggle that included genocide of native population, not just he men but women and children as well, even animals, I think, so we are supposed to judge thousands year old cultures by modern standards, in which case in the modern world the predominantly Christian countries have been at least as violent, some would say more so.

Most of Mohammed's teacher's were Jewish or Christian, it seems he had a predilection of establishing and Israelite type religion in Pagan Arabia, and not surprisingly he had no easier time of it than the Israelites in early Palestine.

 

[Sees]

Ok what about the ancient Israelites after Moses, they founded their religion and occupation of Palestine by a violent struggle that included genocide of native population, not just he men but women and children as well, even animals, I think, so we are supposed to judge thousands year old cultures by modern standards, in which case in the modern world the predominantly Christian countries have been at least as violent, some would say more so.

Most of Mohammed's teacher's were Jewish or Christian, it seems he had a predilection of establishing and Israelite type religion in Pagan Arabia, and not surprisingly he had no easier time of it than the Israelites in early Palestine.

In my own theories Muhammad wanted to be the Moses of his people, he is always reported to have been strict about people calling him, knowing him as, The Messenger/Prophet. Shahada had to include Muhammad instead of simply No god but God. I think his plan worked out very well but in the long term using ancient literary Hebrews for an example was a poor choice. And it was most definitely a choice not forced upon him. It would have been better if he used the Jews around him as the prime example.

I think some of them knew what he was up to and gave mix and match information. Hence some Talmud in the Qur'an which Muhammad thinks is Hebrew scripture. A sort of easter egg if you will, to let future Jews know he was not receiving divine revelations but borrowing their traditions for his own means.

 

[Deidre]

In this thread, I learn that quite a few people feel that the opinions I've received are ...''fair.'' :/

 

[Lyndon]

In 650AD Talmud was Hebrew scripture, what was not Hebrew scripture was the whole rest of the Old Testament except for the Pentateuch.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

For some reason people bring up the past of the Muslims and use that to justify hating Islam. The past is the past. Muslims today aren't the same as Muslims back then and this applies to Christians, Buddhists Hindus Jews or any religion really.

 

[Sees]

In 650AD Talmud was Hebrew scripture, what was not Hebrew scripture was the whole rest of the Old Testament except for the Pentateuch.

Did you learn that from a Jewish source?

Talmud has always been oral Torah and commentary as far as I know per Jewish sources.

There is plain as day rabbinical commentary, on actual pieces of scripture, placed into the Qur'an with "thus did we declare for the Children of Israel" - then placing a slightly altered quote of the Rabbi's words.

It's actually quoted often in the media as a great part of the Qur'an.

 

[Deidre]

For some reason people bring up the past of the Muslims and use that to justify hating Islam. The past is the past. Muslims today aren't the same as Muslims back then and this applies to Christians, Buddhists Hindus Jews or any religion really.

Yea, I guess.
This is the first time I've ever mentioned to people that I'm exploring a particular religion...and they have given me such negative feedback. I should've kept it to myself, I guess. Not speaking about ppl online as much, I mean...these sites are designed for discussion. I'm talking mainly about my offline friends.

 

[Lyndon]

Deidre, you have to understand that most westerners are being exposed to a media anti Islam propaganda campaign that goes up to even the highest parts of the government, I'm sure if you were living in a muslim country and thinking about converting to Judaism, your friends reaction might be quite similar, or if all your friends were atheists and you were thinking of converting to Christianity. The best thing is to keep an open mind and realize that not all people are operating with a "full deck" when it comes to the information they are receiving about Islam in the media.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Deidre, you have to understand that most westerners are being exposed to a media anti Islam propaganda campaign that goes up to even the highest parts of the government, I'm sure if you were living in a muslim country and thinking about converting to Judaism, your friends reaction might be quite similar, or if all your friends were atheists and you were thinking of converting to Christianity. The best thing is to keep an open mind and realize that not all people are operating with a "full deck" when it comes to the information they are receiving about Islam in the media.

Oh, really? Okay. Lol.

 

[Sees]

In 650AD Talmud was Hebrew scripture, what was not Hebrew scripture was the whole rest of the Old Testament except for the Pentateuch.

Do you think that this reads like scripture or rabbinical commentary?

"......You may also be aware of the fact that there is no similarity between civil and criminal cases. In civil cases one may repay the money damage and he is atoned; but in criminal cases the blood of the person executed, and of his descendants to the end of all generations, clings to the originator of his execution. So do we find in the case of Cain, who slew his brother. It reads [Gen. iv. 10]: "The voice of the 'bloods' of thy brother are crying unto me from the ground." It does not read "blood," but "bloods," which means his blood and the blood of his descendants. [According to others it reads "bloods" in the plural, because his blood was scattered all over the trees and stones.] Therefore the man was created singly, to teach that he who destroys one soul of a human being, the Scripture considers him as if he should destroy a whole world, and him who saves one soul of Israel, the Scripture considers him as if he should save a whole world......" - Mishnah Sanhedrin 4:5

Now compare that last bit with the Qur'an -

"On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people." 5:32

Would it be safe to say Muhammad may have borrowed some rabbinical commentary, and also perhaps thought it was part of the Tanakh?

 

[Deidre]

Sees, do you feel Muhammad was a true prophet or...?

 

[Sees]

Sees, do you feel Muhammad was a true prophet or...?

Not a prophet for me, but it's up to each person to look into and decide for themselves.

 

[Deidre]

Not a prophet for me, but it's up to each person to look into and decide for themselves.

I see, okay.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Yea, I guess.
This is the first time I've ever mentioned to people that I'm exploring a particular religion...and they have given me such negative feedback. I should've kept it to myself, I guess. Not speaking about ppl online as much, I mean...these sites are designed for discussion. I'm talking mainly about my offline friends.

A lot of westerners only know Islam through the media which explains their irrational hatred and many of them have barely looked at the Quran or the history behind it mostly because looking up stuff takes effort. I wouldn't worry about their opinions much. You believe what you want to believe. Their opinion won't change that. I know some don't like to share their faith due to people reacting negatively and it's sad when it happens that their ridiculed. No one should have to hide their beliefs.

 

[Deidre]

A lot of westerners only know Islam through the media which explains their irrational hatred and many of them have barely looked at the Quran or the history behind it mostly because looking up stuff takes effort. I wouldn't worry about their opinions much. You believe what you want to believe. Their opinion won't change that. I know some don't like to share their faith due to people reacting negatively and it's sad when it happens that their ridiculed. No one should have to hide their beliefs.

Yes, it takes a lot of effort to read the history of Islam, and the Qur'an...but because I'm a former Christian, reading the Qur'an is not just for education for me, it is because I'm interested in the spirituality of it. The meaning within the pages, as opposed to merely how the pages came to be. Learning about a culture so different from mine, and understanding what my friends follow, it is hard to explain ...but it's like looking into a totally different world.

Muhammad is a controversial person, no doubt. I have my misgivings, but at the same time, I've read the verses where he speaks of forgiveness, and repentance, not for others...for himself. What was he repenting of? See, that is the mystery and beauty of faith, all in one. We can read about Muhammad, and we believe we know everything there is to know about him. But, God knows everyone's heart...even his. And that is the essence of faith.

Islam takes work though. It can help you change in the areas you need to change. For example, I'm not a morning person but after praying the Fajr, it sets the tone for the whole day. I like the structure of Islam, and the sacred customs.

I think faith can serve a purpose in a person's life. I was an atheist for a time, not a long time...but, I was never as fulfilled in my life as an atheist, as I am as a deist/theist.

One day...we will all know for sure.

 

[YmirGF]

hard to tell, but are u being sarcastic?

I wasn't being the slightest bit sarcastic. When you take away the fluffy mythology created by his fanatical followers his actions are not as pristine and high minded as they seem when reading these accounts. You have to remember that virtually all we know about Muhammad was written by his fanatical followers and is a white-washed account of his romp through Arabia.

Perfection meaning we should strive to be ''agape'' love for all. That’s how I view it.

I'm a much more pragmatic person. Perhaps we should just try to communicate more clearly with each other than worrying about loving everything we encounter. One little step at a time.

What do you make of this?

Was Muhammad Really a Man of Peace? - Muslim Character - counsels - OnIslam.net

Pretty typical propaganda, really. I've read literally dozens of articles like this, and several biographies. If you believe the marketing brochures it really was all Peace, Love and Beards. The thing is that these articles are predicated on the assumption that he was a bona fide "prophet" of god. If you don't buy into that myth, the rest just sort of ebbs away into noise.

 

[Deidre]

I'm a much more pragmatic person. Perhaps we should just try to communicate more clearly with each other than worrying about loving everything we encounter. One little step at a time.

Oh, I agree. Being straight up with people, IS loving. Honesty is loving, even if we don't wish to hear it. lol

 

[YmirGF]

Oh, I agree. Being straight up with people, IS loving. Honesty is loving, even if we don't wish to hear it. lol

Many people think I am a bit too honest.

I will say that you certainly seem to be a lovely person. Your heart is in the right place. Pity you are fascinated with Islam though....

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

A lot of westerners only know Islam through the media which explains their irrational hatred and many of them have barely looked at the Quran or the history behind it mostly because looking up stuff takes effort. I wouldn't worry about their opinions much. You believe what you want to believe. Their opinion won't change that. I know some don't like to share their faith due to people reacting negatively and it's sad when it happens that their ridiculed. No one should have to hide their beliefs.

Yeah, because learning about Islam automatically makes you love it so! Because the media never presents Muslims in a positive light! Never!

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Yeah, because learning about Islam automatically makes you love it so! Because the media never presents Muslims in a positive light! Never!

It's not necessary to be sarcastic. The media is well known for being usually unfair and bias. A lot of hatred towards other groups is due to propaganda. It has been like that for a while.