sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Everyone has already been reconciled through Christ.:thud:
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Universal Reconciliation religion.
- Thread starter Meshak
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My 94-year-old grandmother has maintained this stance throughout her life when she grew up Methodist, convereted to Catholicism when she got married, and has studied her Bible, prayed, and attended weekly mass. When she heard of my leaving the Mother Church, she said that's fine since I need to find what works and I'm already loved and accepted by God through Christ. When she'd heard of my leaving the Christian community, she said that's fine since I need to find what works and I'm already loved and accepted by God through Christ.
There's never been a time when she's been worried about the fate of my soul or anybody else's soul. To her, this hellfire and brimstone talk, or who is worthy of forgiveness, is simply foreign to her.
Hell fire is not of Jesus. God and Jesus are love. They are not cruel monsters.
Jesus came down to correct to set the record straight.
But I have to you that Jesus also tells us to be righteous and godly in our conduct all around you even towards your enemy.
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Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Your grandma sounds like one classy woman, Mystic.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
this part of your post:
is incongruent with your position that not all people will be saved.
And this:
represents a double-standard. Jesus tells us to be godly in our conduct toward our enemies, yet Jesus refuses to save his own enemies.
How do you explain the incongruity and the double-standard?
This is not the truth. His enemies refuse to be saved. Not the same thing, is it?
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
No, it's not the truth, but that's precisely what Meshak has maintained.
I believe it's true that we have been given free will to make our own determination of how we will (or will not) relate to God. But I also believe that part of grace is that God gives us all the time we need in order to come to accept reconciliation.
The father waits until the son returns.
The shepherd searches until the lost sheep is found.
The woman looks until the coin is found.
It is true and a good point. But is that what the "fire stored up" means? Fire destroys so that which is burned up cannot be found. Does everyone escape the fire?
but I -- I say to you, that every one who is angry at his brother without cause, shall be in danger of the judgment, and whoever may say to his brother, Empty fellow! shall be in danger of the sanhedrin, and whoever may say, Rebel! shall be in danger of the gehenna of the fire. Matthew 5:22
Thief
Rogue Theologian
He is talking about His word. Sward is Jesus' word.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Yeah....and swords sever the living from the dead.
Double edged swords are used in combat.
They cut to the left and to the right.
Stand in opposition and you shall be cut.
Swords sever the living from the dead.
The angelic are often portrayed with sword drawn.
So I reason.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The three young men were in danger of flame in the fiery furnace, yes? By God's grace they were not consumed.
The three young men were in danger of flame in the fiery furnace, yes? By God's grace they were not consumed.
You are in my head. I know that and I thought of it too. But what kind of men were they?
Daniel Chapter Three
16 Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to him, “King Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. 17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it, and he will deliver us[c] from Your Majesty’s hand. 18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.”
Psalm 37:40 The LORD helps them and delivers them; he delivers them from the wicked and saves them, because they take refuge in him.
Is it possible to take refuge in something you do not believe exists?
Psalm 27:1 Of David. The LORD is my light and my salvation--whom shall I fear? The LORD is the stronghold of my life--of whom shall I be afraid?
2 Corinthians 1:10 He has delivered us from such a deadly peril, and he will deliver us. On him we have set our hope that he will continue to deliver us
The faithful are saved because they make YHVH their hope. And then in the end it is believed by some that YHVH will make God's self the hope of all unbelievers. How does it make sense to anyone? How is it accomplished?
Is it possible to take refuge in something you do not believe exists?
Psalm 27:1 Of David. The LORD is my light and my salvation--whom shall I fear? The LORD is the stronghold of my life--of whom shall I be afraid?
2 Corinthians 1:10 He has delivered us from such a deadly peril, and he will deliver us. On him we have set our hope that he will continue to deliver us
The faithful are saved because they make YHVH their hope. And then in the end it is believed by some that YHVH will make God's self the hope of all unbelievers. How does it make sense to anyone? How is it accomplished?
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
You don't think that, eventually, all God's children will return, as God planned? You don't think that all God's children will be delivered from the "flame?"
What kind of grace is it, and what kind of shepherd is it that is not efficacious for all people, and does not search until all are found? And why would one want to worship such an ineffective and ambivalent god?
What kind of grace is it, and what kind of shepherd is it that is not efficacious for all people, and does not search until all are found? And why would one want to worship such an ineffective and ambivalent god?
This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live Deuteronomy 30:19
I think according to you it should say LET GOD CHOOSE LIFE FOR YOU
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
No, but I do trust that, in time, all will choose life.
OK. I am from the JW persuasion. So my question is; "Will everyone who ever lived, choose life, in time, according to you?"
If they have an eternity, maybe? Why not?
I will answer "why not" even if it might be rhetorical. Because there is no sharing between light and darkness. All those who do not choose life are in darkness. Life will be just like we have now. And it isn't good for most people according to what I know about poverty, bias, discrimination, dogmatism, fanaticism, injustice, narrow-mindedness, partiality, provincialism, racism, sectarianism, sexism, unfairness.
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