Unpacking Donald Trump's controversial Tweet

[Shadow Wolf]

Really? If you feel that not supporting everything that Israel does is tandamont to treason, then I would have to agree with Ilhan's tweet. You are an example of someone who is so far under some sort of spell (not necessarily from Israel, though) that it is enough to make you call for treason if an American does not pledge total support to a foreign state (Israel.) I won't say that Israel is the source of this mesmerism, though, as Israel does not even demand such loyalty from its own citizens!

She took a very broad stroke at Israel. She pretty much said they are evil, it's only accepted because they've hypnotized the world, and appealed to her god to "awaken the world" so we would agree with her. I have a very hard time separating that from the rest of the 2000 year long history of prejudice, bigotry, and racism the Jews have suffered at the hands of Christians and Muslims.

 

[Enoch07]

Really? If you feel that not supporting everything that Israel does is tandamont to treason, then I would have to agree with Ilhan's tweet. You are an example of someone who is so far under some sort of spell (not necessarily from Israel, though) that it is enough to make you call for treason if an American does not pledge total support to a foreign state (Israel.) I won't say that Israel is the source of this mesmerism, though, as Israel does not even demand such loyalty from its own citizens!

I'm just not a traitor to my country and it's allies.

I'm calling for treason for people that support factions that support terrorism over our countries own allies.

 

[crossfire]

She took a very broad stroke at Israel. She pretty much said they are evil, it's only accepted because they've hypnotized the world, and appealed to her god to "awaken the world" so we would agree with her. I have a very hard time separating that from the rest of the 2000 year long history of prejudice, bigotry, and racism the Jews have suffered at the hands of Christians and Muslims.

I agree with you that saying that Israel is the source of this mesmerism is wrong. However, I've seen evidence in this very thread (which I admit is a very small sample size) of someone's mind/mental functions being overcome to the point of calling for charges of treason to American citizens who don't pledge total support to a foreign government.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm just not a traitor to my country and it's allies.

I'm calling for treason for people that support factions that support terrorism over our countries own allies.

Too bad for you, treason is not defined in such a way. And do you really want to blindly support American allies? What about Saudi Arabia (I don't know about you, but I'd allow it to fall to most other peoples around the world without second thought or hesitation)? And too bad for you, I can not support Israel beyond being able to defend themselves, support the Palestinians in a claim for their own land and borders, and point out they both need to knock it off, cut the crap, and put their people first instead of foolish dogmatic nationalism that insists "we must have it all," and you won't find a single judge who could hold me guilty of treason.

 

[Stevicus]

Criticizing is one thing, tough love is another, but these women are ugly nasty and rude. Which is why all their approval ratings are extremely low. Ilhan Omar is at 9% favorability, this was before Trump criticized her.

Sometimes, even tough love can be ugly, nasty, and rude.

But I don't think they're that bad. There are some progressive policies that Omar supports and with which I agree, just as there are policies which Trump supports and with which I agree. I try to stick to the issues and not get so hung up on personalities.

I don't put much stock in approval ratings. However, they're all up for re-election in 2020, just as Trump is, so we'll see what the voters say in 16 months. Maybe even sooner if they can't make it past the primaries. Either way, they'll be facing some stiff competition.

He criticized them for anti-american, anti-semitic, arguments of hate. Unless you would like to point out where he criticised them for being "brown"?

I've noticed a tendency in American politics where people will assume the worst intentions or motivations when picking apart what someone says.

 

[Stevicus]

Yes, Israel is our ally. Palestine is not even a recognized state. Palestine is allied with Iran who funds terrorist groups.

International recognition of the State of Palestine - Wikipedia

"Palestine is not recognized as a state by Israel, the United States, Switzerland, Canada, Japan, South Korea, Mexico, Australia, New Zealand, and most of the European Union, among others."

So yes, If someone doesn't support America's alliance with Israel and supports Palestine instead, who is allied with an enemy that funds racist terrorist groups.

They are a racist, unamerican, and a terrorist supporter themselves. The Squad and many in the Democratic party are guilty of this. It's time we look into treason.

I think that may go a bit too far to say that it's un-American to not support America's alliance with Israel. I think it would mainly depend on the context.

If someone is arguing from the standpoint of what is best for American interests, then it would be a pro-American position.

If someone is arguing from the standpoint of what is best for Israeli or Palestinian interests, then that would indicate support for a foreign country ahead of America.

And again, it's just like with criticism of the US government. Just because someone criticizes the actions of a government (whether US or Israeli), it shouldn't be interpreted as a blanket condemnation of every man, woman, and child within the country.

I'm not necessarily against our alliance with Israel, although we kind of stuck ourselves in a quagmire over there. I've seen it all my life; I think we're up to our 332nd attempt at "Peace in the Middle East," but it never seems to happen. It seems a lost cause.

 

[Enoch07]

I think that may go a bit too far to say that it's un-American to not support America's alliance with Israel. I think it would mainly depend on the context.

Well I'll let you decide for yourself.

She doesn't support Americas alliance of Israel. But she does support Palestine. Palestine is allies with Iran. Who are enemies of Israel and America.

So yes imo she is unamerican and maybe even a traitor.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I've noticed a tendency in American politics where people will assume the worst intentions or motivations when picking apart what someone says.

Last I knew, no one is really telling those of us descended from Europeans to "go back to where they came from." It gets said about black people A LOT. The same goes for Latinos, regardless of where they are from or what languages they speak. Just a few short generations ago my ancestors were told to leave and go back to Ireland. But anytime I've been told to leave it's not because of race and it hasn't been to anywhere specific.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well I'll let you decide for yourself.

She doesn't support Americas alliance of Israel. But she does support Palestine. Palestine is allies with Iran. Who are enemies of Israel and America.

So yes imo she is unamerican and maybe even a traitor.

Then what of Trump who has not moved to end the alliance between US and Saudi Arabia, despite Saudi Arabia officially endorsing and supporting a sect of Islam that is ultra-orthodox and as a state they have their fingers and pockets deep in terrorism (who are known for wanting us dead)? What of Trump's failure to end the arms deal and veto of congressional attempts to do so? And what of Trump's personal business ties to Saudi Arabia?

 

[Enoch07]

Then what of Trump who has not moved to end the alliance between US and Saudi Arabia, despite Saudi Arabia officially endorsing and supporting a sect of Islam that is ultra-orthodox and as a state they have their fingers and pockets deep in terrorism (who are known for wanting us dead)?

Saudia Arabia disavowed and have separated themselves from that. They now support Israel.

What of Trump's failure to end the arms deal and veto of congressional attempts to do so?

I'm fuzzy on this. What arms deal exactly?

And what of Trump's personal business ties to Saudi Arabia?

Irrelevant as far as I know.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Saudia Arabia disavowed and have separated themselves from that. They now support Israel.

Mohammad bin Salman is trying, but he faces an uphill battle. Efforts over the decades have been made, but the clergy and deeply intertwined nature of their religion and state has made this impossible for any before him. Even after 9/11 Saudi Arabia was in a crap spot, but things didn't change because their clergy have immense power and influence.

I'm fuzzy on this. What arms deal exactly?

https://nypost.com/2019/07/24/trump-vetoes-resolutions-to-end-arms-deals-with-saudi-arabia/

Irrelevant as far as I know.

It's not irrelevant, because he has been doing business with those who promote extremism since at least the early 90s. He's even bragged about it on at least a few occasions.

 

[Enoch07]

It's not irrelevant, because he has been doing business with those who promote extremism since at least the early 90s

That's the way it is in the upper echelons. Hell Andrew Breitbart and Ariana Huffington are polar opposites politically but they still created a media source together. All those rich a-holes are in each others pockets. Mueller was in a business deal with Trump before he got charged with the investigation. The Clinton's, Obama's, and Trump all attend the same parties and have the same friends. I don't think people are guilty by association though.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's the way it is in the upper echelons. Hell Andrew Breitbart and Ariana Huffington are polar opposites politically but they still created a media source together. All those rich a-holes are in each others pockets. Mueller was in a business deal with Trump before he got charged with the investigation. The Clinton's, Obama's, and Trump all attend the same parties and have the same friends. I don't think people are guilty by association though.

So not supporting Israel is un-American, but doing business with those who support those who want us dead is a-ok?

 

[Enoch07]

So not supporting Israel is un-American, but doing business with those who support those who want us dead is a-ok?

That's a huge false equivalency.

It's not only the refusal to support Israel. It is the backing of powers that support terrorist while being a representative of the govt and refusing to back Israel who is our ally. That is tantamount to treason. To support an enemy while trying to undermine an ally.

Trump having private business dealings with someone who 30 years ago but have since disavowed is totally different. Especially considering he wasn't a politican or a representative of our govt then.

 

[crossfire]

<…>

It's not only the refusal to support Israel. It is the backing of powers that support terrorist while being a representative of the govt and refusing to back Israel who is our ally. That is tantamount to treason. To support an enemy while trying to undermine an ally.

<…>

Isn't this the sort of reasoning that lead to the July Crisis and subsequent outbreak of WW1?
July Crisis - Wikipedia

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It is the backing of powers that support terrorist while being a representative of the govt and refusing to back Israel who is our ally.

Doing business with them is giving them money, which gives money to terrorist groups. I also can't find anything supporting the idea Wahhabi is in Saudi Arabia's past.

Trump having private business dealings with someone who 30 years ago but have since disavowed is totally different. Especially considering he wasn't a politican or a representative of our govt then.

Treason does not require one be a politician or representative of the state.

 

[crossfire]

Article Three of the United States Constitution - Wikipedia
Article 3 section 3 of the US Constitution defines treason as such:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.​

comment from the wiki article:

The Constitution defines treason as specific acts, namely "levying War against [the United States], or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort." A contrast is therefore maintained with the English law, whereby crimes including conspiring to kill the King or "violating" the Queen, were punishable as treason. In Ex Parte Bollman, 8 U.S. 75 (1807), the Supreme Court ruled that "there must be an actual assembling of men, for the treasonable purpose, to constitute a levying of war."[17]​

 

[Enoch07]

Doing business with them is giving them money, which gives money to terrorist groups

You're stretching it there.

Treason does not require one be a politician or representative of the state.

Nope but it is going on right now in the Democratic party.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You're stretching it there.



Nope but it is going on right now in the Democratic party.

Not like it did with Reagan, Oliver North, and the Iran-Contra affair. Last I knew Republicans view them both as great, with Ollie even at one point having a show on Fox News.