Vaccination and Religious Beliefs

[psychoslice]

National Center for Biotechnology Information

 

[SkepticThinker]

At least he wasn't trying to sell you more vaccines, I'll see what I can do.

I guess I just find it pretty bizarre that one of the reasons you say are against vaccines and don't trust scientific studies on vaccines is that scientists and "big pharma" are just trying to make a buck and then you link me to a "natural" website where the first thing I get when I click on the link is a pop-up where some guy is trying to sell me natural remedies.

Do you see the irony there?

 

[psychoslice]

I guess I just find it pretty bizarre that one of the reasons you say are against vaccines and don't trust scientific studies on vaccines is that scientists and "big pharma" are just trying to make a buck and then you link me to a "natural" website where the first thing I get when I click on the link is a pop-up where some guy is trying to sell me natural remedies.

Do you see the irony there?

No I don't, pop ups can be anywhere, after all everyone has to earn a living, even if it coast lives.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

All except for the one study from 20 years ago that actually did turn out to be fraudulent and resulted in a doctor having his medical license revoked (Wakefield). That one is reliable. All the rest are part of the conspiracy.

This has been coined as The "Law of Inverse Proportionality of Authority". It is a well known and well documented tool of conspiracy theorists.

4. The law of inverse proportionality of authority.The validity of any source is inversely proportional to its authoritativeness.
Any government commission, serious academic (not those who teach humanities at Berkeley), law enforcement official, or politician, ie. the people who are in the position to actually know, are immediately suspect because they were probably involved in the conspiracy in the first place. Someone completely removed from the situation, like some guy posting on his website while watching reruns of Star Trek in his parents' basement is more likely to be untainted.

Screw Loose Change: Rules of Conspiracy Theories

Hi, its not just the imminent death rate but what happens latter in life, such as autism, and all the other childhood diseases that are growing out of proportion, we have never seen so many childhood diseases which have been growing since the vaccines, children are getting far too many at a far too early age, why can't they slow down on these, and at least give some later in life such as the hepatitis vaccine, a child would have too be extremely unlucky to get hepatitis unless the parent was a junky, na, its just ridiculers.

While the causes of autism are not clearly understood, what is understood is that autism is most likely hereditary and genetic in nature. In Autism, a person have abnormalities in brain structure. . Please explain to me how vacines cause theses abnormalities in brain structure. If you can't explain (or find someone credible who can explain) how vaccines cause abnormalities in brain structure, then you have no causal link between vaccines and autism. Find the link and win the Nobel Prize.

Causes | Autism Society - Autism Society

Nothing to do with vaccines, its just that we have a much better life style than we use to.

Like Smallpox? Smallpox, like the cold or flu, can be transmitted by someone sneezing or coughing on you; much like the common cold. It's not like an STD which can be prevented by lifestyle changes and safe contact practices; nor is it like Hantavirus, which can be avoided by avoiding certain rodents and their feces.

Lifestyle does not affect one's probability of catching smallpox any more than it affects one's probability of catching a cold or flue.

Smallpox Symptoms, Causes, Treatment - What are smallpox symptoms and signs? - MedicineNet

Yea Yea, around we go in circles, you stick to your beliefs and I'll stick to mine, but please don't force your beliefs onto me or anyone else, that is my whole point here.

It is imperative that society, as a whole, challenge and confront dangerous beliefs.

I wont read any scientific data that is from FDA.

Of course not. They won't tell you what you want to hear.

Its all over the place, just google, or watch actual people talk about their misfortune with vaccines on YouTube, these are real people, not some stupid made up data.

Yes; it is also all over the internet and all over YouTube that the world is actually flat. AS I have stated before, we need better sources and better evidence than uneducated kneejerkers, discredited scientists and emotional appeals.

 

[psychoslice]

This has been coined as The "Law of Inverse Proportionality of Authority". It is a well known and well documented tool of conspiracy theorists.

4. The law of inverse proportionality of authority.The validity of any source is inversely proportional to its authoritativeness.
Any government commission, serious academic (not those who teach humanities at Berkeley), law enforcement official, or politician, ie. the people who are in the position to actually know, are immediately suspect because they were probably involved in the conspiracy in the first place. Someone completely removed from the situation, like some guy posting on his website while watching reruns of Star Trek in his parents' basement is more likely to be untainted.

Screw Loose Change: Rules of Conspiracy Theories



While the causes of autism are not clearly understood, what is understood is that autism is most likely hereditary and genetic in nature. In Autism, a person have abnormalities in brain structure. . Please explain to me how vacines cause theses abnormalities in brain structure. If you can't explain (or find someone credible who can explain) how vaccines cause abnormalities in brain structure, then you have no causal link between vaccines and autism. Find the link and win the Nobel Prize.

Causes | Autism Society - Autism Society



Like Smallpox? Smallpox, like the cold or flu, can be transmitted by someone sneezing or coughing on you; much like the common cold. It's not like an STD which can be prevented by lifestyle changes and safe contact practices; nor is it like Hantavirus, which can be avoided by avoiding certain rodents and their feces.

Lifestyle does not affect one's probability of catching smallpox any more than it affects one's probability of catching a cold or flue.

Smallpox Symptoms, Causes, Treatment - What are smallpox symptoms and signs? - MedicineNet



It is imperative that society, as a whole, challenge and confront dangerous beliefs.



Of course not. They won't tell you what you want to hear.



Yes; it is also all over the internet and all over YouTube that the world is actually flat. AS I have stated before, we need better sources and better evidence than uneducated kneejerkers, discredited scientists and emotional appeals.

So when it all comes to whatever we agree with, its all to do with what we believe as individuals, and that's how it should be, no one has the power to enforce the other to their own beliefs, this is Nazism.

 

[philbo]

Independent studies, and I am for health also, a healthy immune system is all we need.

Independent of whom?

Though I know you probably think that's an honest answer, you haven't actually looked for dependencies of the authors of any of the studies quoted, so it seems to me at best circular reasoning: you are telling yourself that because the study conclusively proves you wrong, therefore it must be dependent on the FDA, big pharma or whoever your conspiracy consists of. Similarly, I wouldn't mind betting that as soon as you tell me who you require independence from, and I show a study with no links to those organizations, you'll immediately add whoever did the study to your list of people from whom independence is required.

 

[philbo]

So when it all comes to whatever we agree with, its all to do with what we believe as individuals, and that's how it should be, no one has the power to enforce the other to their own beliefs, this is Nazism.

Hypotheticaly speaking.. if I were to believe that your beliefs constitute a danger to society, and therefore you need to be wiped out.. am I entitled to my beliefs?

But you're completely missing the point of what science is: the whole point of science is to take people's beliefs and opinions out of the equation, to come up with some kind of objective that is independent of belief.

The whole point of looking at hundreds of thousands of people, some of whom are vaccinated and some of whom aren't is that it ends up not mattering one iota what your opinion is, there is real data to give you an accurate view of what is actually happening.

 

[SkepticThinker]

No I don't, pop ups can be anywhere, after all everyone has to earn a living, even if it coast lives.

Now you're just being intellectually dishonest.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

So when it all comes to whatever we agree with, its all to do with what we believe as individuals, and that's how it should be, no one has the power to enforce the other to their own beliefs, this is Nazism.

We're not talking about religion or philosophy or economics or politics. We're talking about verifiable facts; what is and what is not. Either plaque causes tooth decay or it does not. This has nothing to do with Nazism or thought control or "what people agree with". It simply is. Either vaccinations are dangerous or they are not. It is not open for opinion. It is not open to belief. Either it is or it is not. If it is, evidence will show that it is. Evidence does not show that it is. If evidence does not show that it is, then it is not. No amount of belief will change that.

 

[McBell]

Now you're just being intellectually dishonest.

Now?

You give him far to much credit.

 

[psychoslice]

Independent of whom?

Though I know you probably think that's an honest answer, you haven't actually looked for dependencies of the authors of any of the studies quoted, so it seems to me at best circular reasoning: you are telling yourself that because the study conclusively proves you wrong, therefore it must be dependent on the FDA, big pharma or whoever your conspiracy consists of. Similarly, I wouldn't mind betting that as soon as you tell me who you require independence from, and I show a study with no links to those organizations, you'll immediately add whoever did the study to your list of people from whom independence is required.

Probably, we all have our own tactics.

 

[psychoslice]

Now you're just being intellectually dishonest.

Well independent studies don't have the billions of dollars that the FDA and all their other friends have, so that's probably why you see pop ups there.

 

[psychoslice]

We're not talking about religion or philosophy or economics or politics. We're talking about verifiable facts; what is and what is not. Either plaque causes tooth decay or it does not. This has nothing to do with Nazism or thought control or "what people agree with". It simply is. Either vaccinations are dangerous or they are not. It is not open for opinion. It is not open to belief. Either it is or it is not. If it is, evidence will show that it is. Evidence does not show that it is. If evidence does not show that it is, then it is not. No amount of belief will change that.

yes of course, but it still comes down to the individual choice, to have them or not, all I am saying is let people have their freedom of choice, its that simple, if their forced then I will compare them to Nazis.

 

[psychoslice]

Now?

You give him far to much credit.

And how are going, enjoying yourself ?.

 

[McBell]

And how are going, enjoying yourself ?.

As a matter of fact I am.
But then, i do like watching you paint yourself into a corner then merely ignore the fact you made a complete *** of yourself and carry on like nothing happened.

 

[psychoslice]

As a matter of fact I am.
But then, i do like watching you paint yourself into a corner then merely ignore the fact you made a complete *** of yourself and carry on like nothing happened.

I think its just that I don't need to prove I am right, I feel comfortable with what I do believe, and therefore, if you think I am making an *** of myself then it really doesn't bother me.

 

[McBell]

I think its just that I don't need to prove I am right, I feel comfortable with what I do believe, and therefore, if you think I am making an *** of myself then it really doesn't bother me.

Yes.
You go with whatever strikes your fancy.
To hell with truth and facts.

If you never have to prove anything, you never have to worry about being wrong.
Problem is that you cannot know if you are ever right.
Let me guess, you merely assume you are right often enough, right?

You should really work on your front.
You are not nearly as good at it as you think you are.

 

[psychoslice]

Yes.
You go with whatever strikes your fancy.
To hell with truth and facts.

If you never have to prove anything, you never have to worry about being wrong.
Problem is that you cannot know if you are ever right.
Let me guess, you merely assume you are right often enough, right?

You should really work on your front.
You are not nearly as good at it as you think you are.

Oh yea I can agree with that, I don't have the ability to convince or manipulate others to my way of thinking, and I don't want to be like that, as I said I am happy with what I do believe, and again I don't have to prove anything to anyone, I am only here to share what I do feel is true as you are also.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Science that knows that certain things should not be injected into our bodies, such as mercury, anyone with half a brain knows that.

Actually, anyone with a whole brain will know that we ingest mercury whenever we eat fish. This is unavoidable. But, yet, how could ingesting mercury be good at all because eating fish is known to be part of a goo diet? Well, the answer, as with your sodium chloride, resides in the amount that is consumed. Most people will never eat enough fish to have to worry about mercury poisoning. People who live in coastal regions, this is more of a concern because sea food is more plentiful, but you don't exactly see a bunch of people dropping dead from mercury poisoning now, do you?

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

yes of course, but it still comes down to the individual choice, to have them or not, all I am saying is let people have their freedom of choice, its that simple, if their forced then I will compare them to Nazis.

Now you are goalpost shifting.

The remark above is made in reference to your statement that one can simply "believe" that vaccinations are harmful; and that's that. My statement was that "belief" has absolutely nothing to do with facts. Either vaccinations are harmful, or they are not. Evidence will show whether or not vaccinations are harmful. One can "believe" all they want, contrary to evidence.

So when it all comes to whatever we agree with, its all to do with what we believe as individuals, and that's how it should be, no one has the power to enforce the other to their own beliefs, this is Nazism.

Ridiculous. One can "believe" that sexual abuse of children, when no physical harm is perpetrated, does not harm a child. That sick "belief" does not change the fact, supported by evidence, that sexual abuse of children, even with the lack of physical violence (or threats thereof) certainly DOES harm children. About every nation on the face of this earth seeks to prevent the sexual abuse of children, and does so by force. They are not nazis by doing so. They are moral by doing so. Following your train of thought, the government has no right to punish molesters of children; because hay, everyone has the right to their own beliefs, dontchaknow.

Present evidence. That's all we ask and that's what you continue to fail to do; present evidence that can withstand basic scrutiny.