Vaccination and Religious Beliefs

[psychoslice]

It is true that vaccinations can have negative repercussions for a minority. But the benefits out way the risk overall, if you do the math. Since these specific diseases can wreak havoc in the population, it is a good thing to have them. I am interested, however in your specific claims of harm. Do you have medical records that specifically link the vac to your issues, especially the schizophrenia? My mother-in-law as well as several others in her family were diagnosed with that disorder. It was pointed out to me clearly that there is a strong genetic link, and medications really have nothing to do with the disease. If you have material which says otherwise, please share.

No its was a long time ago, and there was nothing wrong with me until I took that poison, and what I have read about the vaccine, it makes a lot of sense that it was the vaccine I had. If you get all of your information from the very people who make that crap, then of course your going to hear their biased opinions, there is a lot at stake, you imagine if the people found out the truth.

 

[Lighthouse]

It is true that vaccinations can have negative repercussions for a minority. But the benefits out way the risk overall, if you do the math. Since these specific diseases can wreak havoc in the population, it is a good thing to have them. I am interested, however in your specific claims of harm. Do you have medical records that specifically link the vac to your issues, especially the schizophrenia? My mother-in-law as well as several others in her family were diagnosed with that disorder. It was pointed out to me clearly that there is a strong genetic link, and medications really have nothing to do with the disease. If you have material which says otherwise, please share.

Sv40 cells from a polio vaccine have been shown to be passed down genetically, to children who never had the vaccine and first caused by the vaccine. This is still being shown today, many many years later. In other words, the genetic excuse is by no means clear at all for any other possible genetic pass down.
If you do the math, 1 in 4 children in the country of the US alone have some sort of diagnosed disability.

 

[Lighthouse]

It is true that vaccinations can have negative repercussions for a minority. But the benefits out way the risk overall, if you do the math. Since these specific diseases can wreak havoc in the population, it is a good thing to have them. I am interested, however in your specific claims of harm. Do you have medical records that specifically link the vac to your issues, especially the schizophrenia? My mother-in-law as well as several others in her family were diagnosed with that disorder. It was pointed out to me clearly that there is a strong genetic link, and medications really have nothing to do with the disease. If you have material which says otherwise, please share.

If you do the math, polio is pretty much gone including zero cases in most countries in 2015. Many of the last known cases were caused by the oral vaccination itself. Ironically, this also was pulled off most markets when the truth came out. At that present time, it was once deemed safe and clinically tested for the assurance.

Still a work in progress as there are infinite unknowns still surrounding:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9131645/

 

[SkepticThinker]

Why is her immune deficiency exemption superior to others children's immune deficiency non-exemption? I am skeptical for your lack of concern for others immune deficiency.

It's not. Again, I'm not sure what you're talking about.

 

[Milton Platt]

No its was a long time ago, and there was nothing wrong with me until I took that poison, and what I have read about the vaccine, it makes a lot of sense that it was the vaccine I had. If you get all of your information from the very people who make that crap, then of course your going to hear their biased opinions, there is a lot at stake, you imagine if the people found out the truth.

Okay, so your claim is unsubstantiated. Thanks.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Herd immunity is a myth. The percentage of its ineffectiveness and length of effectiveness is evidence itself. Grab a booster and "maybe" be immune for another year or 2 as an adult.

In other words, you are not part of the herd likely after your young youth. Placebo does work though.

Herd immunity is a reality. I've just shown you a small portion of the evidence.

 

[psychoslice]

Okay, so your claim is unsubstantiated. Thanks.

Well have a closed mind I don't give a rats.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Sincerely, "the voices of the thousands of children crying in the wilderness who have developed autism after vaccinations." Just a common sense link. As for scientific evidence, just because there are no current links does not make it true or false. We don't know at this time.
I think the correct answer would be: at this current time there is no evidence or there is evidence that has been destroyed or hidden or not released.
Also, many/most pregnant women receive vaccinations.
Can you imagine the public uproar, lawsuits, reputations done, money lost if the government and pharmaceutical industries allowed any evidence and research to get out? What a national catastrophe that would be.
One brave man who has made the claim that Merck Vaccines has had solid evidence for links of autism for 10 years and fabricated the studies in which he assisted in the fabrication while employed there. We'll have to see if this sheds any light as its still pending before congress. Just an allegation for now in which documents have handed over to congress by his attorneys.
One verifiable fact is that autism is more prevalent than all of the diseases being vaccinated combined in many countries and that autism has substantially increased at rapid rates following trend with the progress of mass vaccinations. May or may not contribute.

These are all unsubstantiated claims.

The proposed link between autism and vaccines is thimerosal (even though there is no evidence that thimerosal causes autism). Thimerosal was removed from vaccines in the 1990s. But autism diagnoses continued to rise for years after that. So blaming thimerosal for causing autism doesn't make much sense. Not to mention the fact that the guy who fraudulently carried out the study linking thimerosal to autism has been publicly disgraced and had his medical licence revoked. There is no evidence linking autism to vaccines. I don't know where you're getting your information from, but you have been misled.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I have only had one vaccine in my whole life, and that one vaccine caused me to have fits for a number of years, and today I have schizophrenia.

I've had many and I'm fine.

Now we've both shared our anecdotal evidence.

 

[SkepticThinker]

That was the point, that autism is more prevalent than the diseases being vaccinated for. In which you responded that autism "just may be now" more than polio in which I've responded: 200,000 as compared to zero.

What do you know of reality? It doesn't take "scientific evidence" to read about all of the children of mothers and fathers who actually experienced such in "reality" or knowing someone who actually experienced such in "reality." Are they a figment of non-real loony imagination?

No, you do not know what causes autism, that the immunology of the human body is all known, and that the effects of vaccinations are all known. The best answer is, "I don't know."

They are people with little to no medical expertise making connections that don't exist, as humans are prone to do.

The age of onset of autism has typically coincided with the age at which children are vaccinated. That's why it can appear as though vaccines cause autism. There's nothing sinister going on there.

 

[psychoslice]

I've had many and I'm fine.

Now we've both shared our anecdotal evidence.

Yes we have, but the reality is that I was harmed, so how many more people like me were harmed, but you don't care.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Autism used to be diagnosed around the same age as children being vaccinated, because that's the age the symptoms would typically manifest themselves. Insofar as being noticeable by the medical profession. Because diagnosis usually relies on the social interaction of the baby. It's not like an ailment that you can necessarily spot at birth like Downs Syndrome for example.
That's not a causation, not even a correlation (as I have previously been corrected on.) It's two coinciding events. Like being daytime and eating.
If I am to go by what @Shadow Wolf has previously stated that diagnosis is being pushed back before children are vaccinated. Which is always good. Get in early and prepare.

I happen to have a severely low functioning autistic cousin. She can't eat, can't talk, can't put on weight etc. I guess it being so severe it was diagnosed quite early for that particular time.
But I'd take that over her dying from Polio any day of the week. And I suspect those who do actually remember Polio, like some of the older baby boomers (I'm from a generation who literally can't being a Gen Y/Millennial) would be pulling their hair out in frustration over this modern rejection of the vaccine.

My grandfather certainly couldn't understand it. His little brother died from polio.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yes we have, but the reality is that I was harmed, so how many more people like me were harmed, but you don't care.

Of course I care. But the point is that anecdotal evidence doesn't really amount to much in the grand scheme of things. Oftentimes, human beings attribute causation where it doesn't belong.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Autism is still diagnosed around the ages where most of the vaccinations simultaneously take place. It does have some roots before autism is diagnosed also, particularly during pregnancy... but that conclusion could be viewed as unknown because pregnant females receive vaccinations also and just because it may have any root, wouldn't exclude the possibility that a substance in a vaccine, combinations of substances in multiple vaccines also could cause autism or correlate with the root. Too much is unknown at this time about autism, genetics, and multiple combinations of substances in vaccinations or that there are multiple causes of autism, not just vaccinations per say. Many pharma's could be producing relatively safe substances while one is producing an unsafe.

What reasons do we have to believe this? Mere speculation? Is there any evidence indicating cause for concern for certain substances? Is there any evidence indicating that different pharmaceutical companies are not following industry standards and producing unsafe vaccines? Is there any reason to believe these things beyond just "maybes" and "who knows?"

This in my opinion is a deep matter that needs more time. No one can be honest and conclude that they do or they don't. We can believe or believe not. I respect those that believe not but are humble enough to admit that they can't say for certain. I do have little respect for those calling others quacks or claiming that they 100% know... because that's a lie. Too much is unknown. In everyday life and reality, there are children who are healthy and have healthy habits which become a completely different child with autistic habits at the same time or within a week of receiving vaccinations in which they become diagnosed with autism. One would have to be very naive to say that they know for certain that there would be no foul play or cover ups in a matter where an entire country's reputation is on the line, that everything is cupcakes and rainbows in which money or reputation has zero effect on what human's do and what lengths humans are willing to go on a microscopic or macroscopic level, especially with the power to do so as the general public is unaware or wouldn't think twice to educate themselves before making any choices.

There are plenty of quacks out there. No lie.

 

[SkepticThinker]

If you do the math, polio is pretty much gone including zero cases in most countries in 2015. Many of the last known cases were caused by the oral vaccination itself. Ironically, this also was pulled off most markets when the truth came out. At that present time, it was once deemed safe and clinically tested for the assurance.

Still a work in progress as there are infinite unknowns still surrounding:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9131645/

Why do you think polio has almost been eradicated, worldwide?

 

[SkepticThinker]

That is also where we differ. You appear to be one of them that fit this mold. I am not "anti-Vax" who needs a leg to stand. I am a neutral human being opposed to the bullying, opposed to the disrespectful and condescending nature of other human beings who are ignorant of common sense, truth, and humility. I am opposed to mandatory vaccinations and all for freedom of choice. Most aren't "anti-vax." You can make it about evidence needed for the "anti-vax" side all you want. Also where we differ, as I am concerned about evidence in reality for the health and well being of any human being rather than winning a debate and making it out to be an us vs them or I told you so and can make fun of you. This type of thinking is more dangerous to humanity than anything else. Self-realization and awareness is the first step in learning to become more wise, seeing the light in which was once not seen

I believe that the truth will eventually come out and all will know that vaccinations will be known as one of the greatest self-inflicted evils and lies upon the well-being of humanity. What is blinded and seen as being responsible and harmless and doing mankind a favor will without a doubt be shown to be the ironic opposite, one of the biggest and corrupt blunders. You hit it, the sad reality is they yet do not know/are aware of what they do. The sad reality is also the powerful forces socially integrating this all into minds through false indoctrinating such as the herd immunization myth and the promotion of others being a threat to society. Paying shills to write false and agenda driven stories on the Internet. I've already personally discovered the truth to a few of them who say their child has autism and didn't receive vaccines only to discover the writer has no children and was paid to promote such lies. In my country, we are a few self-created outbreaks away from completing their agenda of mandatory vaccines also. If another measly 100 children are infected with measles in which 70% of them were fully vaccinated... and zero casualties... they will cause an array of panic and fear into the herd and blame of the unvaccinated to complete this goal all while the worlds people are sicker than ever.
Agreed, it is deeply ingrained and conditioned upon the herd's mentality in wishful thinking whereas the only things the herd is immune to it truth, wisdom, knowledge, and understanding at these present times.

This is not a neutral position. And it runs contrary to the evidence.

 

[psychoslice]

Of course I care. But the point is that anecdotal evidence doesn't really amount to much in the grand scheme of things. Oftentimes, human beings attribute causation where it doesn't belong.

So your saying that vaccines can never hurt anyone ?.

 

[SkepticThinker]

So your saying that vaccines can never hurt anyone ?.

Of course not.

 

[psychoslice]

Of course not.

Ok then, how many people are affected by vaccines, or are those people not worth mentioning ?.

 

[Lighthouse]

Herd immunity is a reality. I've just shown you a small portion of the evidence.

Elaborate on how so.

The length of immunity wanes, and becomes less effective each year. Take for example the whooping cough /pertussis vaccine without even mentioning many of the others. An estimated 80-90% effective rate as is initially with only a few years worth of effect on the 80-90% it does work on. In other words, most adults are no longer part of the herd myth because their herd tag expired some time ago.