Vaccine experience and poll

[Jainarayan]

Challenge: Show me one post where anyone implied that everyone had it.
Please name one or two of my nonsensical assumptions.

Assumptions:
Covid exists -- not nonsense.
Covid's contagious, and people catch it. -- not nonsense.
Infected people usually shed virus. -- not nonsense.
Vaccination reduces transmission and severity of covid. -- not nonsense.
People do catch it.
They catch it from infected people shedding virus.
The infected people may or may not know their infected, they may or may not be showing symptoms. Vaccinated/masked people are less likely to contract covid, if exposed.
Vaccinated people usually have a milder presentation, if they are exposed.
What here do you disagree with?

If an infected person hangs out with other people, not all will catch it. Maybe none will catch it. Those who don't I call lucky.
Lucky is not catching it from an encounter with an infected person. Lucky is not encountering an infected person. Is this nonsense?

Did you read or comprehend anything I wrote?

 

[Jainarayan]

The paranoia is ridiculous.

Ehhh... yep! As will be/is the brow beating. My good friend and his wife are 65+ year old snowbirds with a condo in Floriduh. He told me the only reason he was wearing a mask anymore (the mandates had been lifted) was because the other oldsters were going on and on about wearing masks. So he caved because he didn’t want to hear it. This a man who was known for his barroom brawls in his younger days. Oh how the mighty fall.

 

[Valjean]

I’ve said it’s possible masks largely contributed to that, but masks don’t stop it from spreading when someone blows their nose into a tissue or handkerchief and then without washing their hands touches something else. Or rubs their eyes or scratches their nose under the mask and touches something... like produce and other grocery items.

Transmission is mainly by droplets or ærosols. Most people are infected by breathing. Fomitic transmission does occur, but it's much less common.

I think there’s a lot of self-righteousness among those who are now vaccinated. Those very people may have been spreading the virus before getting jabbed. I love irony.

I'm not seeing irony -- or self-righteousness. Vaccinated people would agree that they could have inadvertently spread the virus before being vaccinated.

 

[Revoltingest]

Ehhh... yep! As will be/is the brow beating. My good friend and his wife are 65+ year old snowbirds with a condo in Floriduh. He told me the only reason he was wearing a mask anymore (the mandates had been lifted) was because the other oldsters were going on and on about wearing masks. So he caved because he didn’t want to hear it. This a man who was known for his barroom brawls in his younger days. Oh how the mighty fall.

When good judgment fails, there's always shame &
annoyance to bring'm in line. It's for their own good.

 

[Trailblazer]

But they're true, aren't they?
How are they insulting, unless one's insulted by a statement of fact?

Jainaryan supported an individual morality, based on personal opinion, irrespective of harm to others.
Indifference to the harm one's actions may cause to others is anti-social, is it not?

Jainaryan said:
Me being unvaccinated and potentially a carrier? Why? Afraid of me for your family? Why aren't they vaccinated? Fear for the general population you don't know? Why are you concerned for people you don't know if they're in danger? Are you worried about me? Why? Please explain.

Valjean said: ↑
Should I concern myself only with those I know?
Your statement is intensely anti-social. It borders on sociopathy.

No, that his statement is intensely anti-social and borders on sociopathy.is not a statement of fact, it is only your personal opinion. We all have personal opinions.

Jainaryan did not say that he is indifferent to the harm his actions may cause to others. That was just you twisting the meaning of what he said.

Who are you to judge other people?

Matthew 7:1-4 Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

Why not mind your own business?

26: O SON OF BEING! How couldst thou forget thine own faults and busy thyself with the faults of others? Whoso doeth this is accursed of Me. The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 10

 

[Trailblazer]

I wear mask everywhere except for in my home

Me too.

 

[Jainarayan]

Transmission is mainly by droplets or ærosols. Most people are infected by breathing. Fomitic transmission does occur, but it's much less common.

But it happens. Do you have statistics and other data on who contracted it when and how? I’d like to see it.

I'm not seeing irony -- or self-righteousness. Vaccinated people would agree that they could have inadvertently spread the virus before being vaccinated.

Can you gather them up and maybe arrange a round table discussion? I’d like to hear it from those individuals... to be fair and accurate, you understand.

 

[Trailblazer]

Vaccinated people would agree that they could have inadvertently spread the virus before being vaccinated.

And after.

 

[Trailblazer]

The vaccine would still be useful to you.
After all, you consort with tenants, who
are the most disease ridden kind of human.

I do not consort with anyone in person.

Ironically, my non-paying tenant who scoffed at vaccinations and Covid told me he ended up in the hospital for weeks and was on a ventilator but he beat it. Of course there is no reason to believe anything he says because he lies like a rug, and I cannot access his health information to verify what he told me.

 

[Valjean]

If everyone had natural immunity than no one would get COVID. I don't find that realistic unless everyone catches COVID to build up immunity against it. That's counterproductive.

No!
Natural immunity has nothing to do with pre-keyed antibodies, antigen exposure or vaccines. It's an artifact of a gene sequence you were born with.

How would we do that? The point is not to get COVID build immunity by letting people (I guess?) contract it.

We do it with vaccinations. The point is: build immunity to the 94%, or whatever, by vaccinating as many people as possible.

 

[Valjean]

And after.

True -- though there would be far fewer 'afters' amongst the vaccinated population

 

[England my lionheart]

My kid's childhood friend got Covid. He is 28. He has been to the emergency room twice and is now on supplemental oxygen. This is not just and old persons disease.

My grand niece was in intensive care for 10 days on a ventilator. She survived, but has long Covid including organ damage and hair loss. Three months on she still can't smell anything.

Exactly,it’s not just the elderly that die from it,why this virus has turned rational people into conspiracy theorists I have no idea,there have been other vaccines like smallpox mumps to name just two previously used.

 

[Valjean]

I do not consort with anyone in person.

Ironically, my non-paying tenant who scoffed at vaccinations and Covid told me he ended up in the hospital for weeks and was on a ventilator but he beat it. Of course there is no reason to believe anything he says because he lies like a rug, and I cannot access his health information to verify what he told me.

Well, if you're a total recluse your chances of contracting it are very low, with or without vaccination.

Your tenant might lie like a rug, but his story is a common one, no?
Almost all covid patients in ICUs weren't vaccinated.

 

[Jainarayan]

We do it with vaccinations.

Like the one for the influenza pandemic of 1918, aka the Spanish flu? The one that caused or contributed to the worldwide deaths of up to 50 million people out of a worldwide population of 1.8 billion? The influenza virus we’ve never seen again? That vaccination?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No!
Natural immunity has nothing to do with pre-keyed antibodies, antigen exposure or vaccines. It's an artifact of a gene sequence you were born with.

This is foreign language to me. Do you mean someone can build natural immunity without needing to have COVID first?

We do it with vaccinations. The point is: build immunity to the 94%, or whatever, by vaccinating as many people as possible.

I usually hear it as herd immunity not natural immunity.

 

[Valjean]

I disagree with everything you post. Let’s start with “I'm assuming your average Joe who becomes infected sheds virus.” But that's true, isn't it? How do you think the virus spreads from one person to another?

That was an assumption on your part, an assumption because you don’t know anything about me other than what I write. You assume that describes me. Let’s revisit that aforementioned average Joe you’re assuming about. There is a policy on the site about passing along covid misinformation, which is exactly what you’re doing assuming about average Joe.[/quote]I said infected people -- infected average Joes -- shed virus, and that's how covid's transmitted. How is this misinformation? How do you think it's transmitted?

You can’t know who the average Joe is. You can’t know just how many people carry the virus.

???? --The average Joe isn't a who, it's the population in general..The exact number of infected people walking around is irrelevant. It's enough to spread the virus

The best you can infer is 48 million from the number of cases, reported, active, recovered, deaths. How do you account for the other 282 million Americans? How do you know 282 million Americans are carrying and shedding the virus? You don’t... you’re assuming.

Assuming what?
It doesn't matter how many average Joes are infected. It's enough to spread the virus. I don't understand your objection to this.

I asked before, explain why in almost two years I haven’t gotten sick. My birth certificate says Newark NJ, not Krypton.

What's to explain? Lots of people don't get sick. Don't you understand luck?
Your not getting sick has nothing to do with the reasons the virus is spreading, or the efficacy of vaccine.

Seriously, do you read what you write?

Apparently you don't, considering all the misattributions and false conclusions you've jumped to. You claim I said or implied all sorts of things I never said or implied.

 

[Valjean]

Like the one for the influenza pandemic of 1918, aka the Spanish flu? The one that caused or contributed to the worldwide deaths of up to 50 million people out of a worldwide population of 1.8 billion? The influenza virus we’ve never seen again? That vaccination?

There was no effective vaccination for the Spanish flu. The 50M deaths were caused by the flu, itself.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm not assuming you're a carrier. I'm assuming your average Joe who becomes infected sheds virus. That's why it's contagious. That's how Joe caught it.
People can harbor and shed virus even if asymptomatic.

Now what here do you disagree with? Are you saying nobody really has it?

Valjean. If you didn't assume everyone not vaccinated is a carrier then there would be no reason to get vaccinated unless you're taking care of a sick person, work at a hospital, and things like that. However, if you promote vaccination to every single person despite their circumstances, you're assuming people can possibly have COVID asymptomatically and judging them for it.

 

[Jainarayan]

???? --The average Joe isn't a who, it's the population in general..The exact number of infected people walking around is irrelevant. It's enough to spread the virus Assuming what?
It doesn't matter how many average Joes are infected. It's enough to spread the virus. I don't understand your objection to this.

Bull****. You're making assumptions and passing around information you cannot or are not supporting. Iow, guessing and assuming. You're not a medical authority, an epidemiologist or a virologist. I object to your usage of "average Joe" as examples. Exact numbers are relevant. If they weren't the CDC and governmental agencies would publish average Joe guesses.

 

[Jainarayan]

There was no vaccination for the Spanish flu. What are you talking about?

That's right, there was none and it burned itself out. We have not seen it again. You made an unqualified and unquantified blanket statement that vaccines stop the spread of viruses. And before you even try, no... we cannot know if a vaccine would have stopped the spread of the Spanish Flu. It's your blanket statements and guesses I object to.