Validity of Muhammad's message.

[England my lionheart]

I think atheism is growing faster,anyway you must take into account of those who are turning away from islam especially in Britain.I think this is due to there being much more freedom and equality here

 

[K.Venugopal]

ur day dreaming i suppose.....u forget islam is the fastest growing religion because it has the maximum converts,last yrs report says increase in muslimpopulation by 235% especially after sep11tht's unheard of..very soon the world will be governed by islamic shariat...as far as indus. oh well they r cornered in a subcontinent, and r not comparible to no. of muslims throughout the world.

I say the future world will be a liberal world and a liberal world would never accept Islamic fanaticism and narrow-mindedness. Organizations will loose its hold on religions more and more. The future Muslim generations, born in democratic and secular societies, will be more amenable to Sufism. State sponsored Islam will disintegrate. The Hindu vision of unity in diversity will be the panacea of religious strife in the world. Buddha and Jesus are set to be the symbols of the future world, not Mohammad.

i said all religions talk about god , i didnt say all religions give the correct message abt god... dont put words in my mouth.

You are here saying only your religion is true. Seeing the type of narrow-mindedness the adherents of Islam display, Islam is being brought into disrepute.

again righteous in wat sense????in sense of killing ur own cousins huh very righteous indeed!!!!

Krishna killed his cousins only to have them reborn. But Allah kills and roasts in hell for eternity only for not believing in Him. Mohammad helped Allah along the way. Compared to Allah’s actions, Krishna’s is righteous.

nope again wrong...muhammed is no religious founder at all..shocked oh u will be....he was only a sort of catalyst...

.....
How can Mohammad not be the founder of Islam? Islam is based on the Quran. And it was sent for the first time through Mohammad. Nobody before Mohammad knew about the Quran. Claiming Adam was the first Muslim is only to claim a legacy that Islam is not heir to.

there is no quote of krishna saying 'all religions are true' in ur holy book ...i challenge..

.
In whatever way people approach me Me, in the same way I bless them. For the paths by which people come to Me from all sides are My paths, O Partha. (Bhagavad Gita 4:11)

and even if he did well tht's because he himself wasnt sure whether he precahed the right religion or wrong.

Whatever else you may say of Krishna, you certainly cannot say Krishna was given to doubts. In fact he is the great doubts clarifier.

nope, now if u make a painting of our prophet or scribble a painting of kaaba in ur house i really cant do much abt it tht's because it's ur property obviously u cant do tht outside ur house,

What you mean is that you decide what I scribble or paint. You still think all the world is Saudi Arabia for you to decide what I scribble or paint. If someone was even rumoured to have drawn a cartoon of Mohammad in Saudi Arabia or any Muslim majority country, the Islamic police would have entered his house and lynched the person. But what happened when it was drawn in Europe? The Muslims could do nothing but protest in the Middle East violently. And what are you going to do about it when many such drawings are freely available on the internet? Fortunately the world is not dominated by Muslims yet and therefore freedom of expression is extant in many parts of the world.

similarly when he is victorious and it is his moral right to do away with idols (note it is such tht all accepted islam) here

This is a morality that could be taught only in the Quran. It is such narrow-mindedness and intolerance that makes the question as to whether God is really the author of the Quran valid.

if i am the lord of a land and someone does malpractice within my land i will indeed be intolerant to let him be free without punishment...ur logic says wat right does a supreme court judge have to hang a murderer or to illegalize dance bars..

.
The very fact that you consider idol-worship illegal stems fromthe Quran. Fortunately, again, the Quran does not rule the world, much as the Muslims dream one day it would....

 

[K.Venugopal]

present be a verse like tht!!! or it's some another story ur indu brother must have told u..

....
[Quran 17:1] “Most glorified is the One who summoned His servant (Muhammad) during the night, from the Sacred Masjid (of Mecca) to the farthest place of prostration, whose surroundings we have blessed, in order to show him some of our signs. He is the Hearer, the Seer.”
"The Bukhari Hadiths" ( Vol.15, p.3615 ) In the year 621 at the age of 51, Muhammad flew on the magical Winged-Horse of Fire which he called Burak, which means "Thunder-Lightning"
The story of the Ascension of Mohammed, known as "Miraj", or "Stairway to Heaven" began when Mohammed fell asleep on a carpet at his cousin's place and became the inspirational source of different "Stories of the 1001 Nights of Arabia" involving "Magic Carpet Rides".
One night as the Prophet lay sleeping next to the Ka’ba, the Archangel Gabriel woke him. Later the Prophet described what happened: 'I sat up and he took hold of my arm. I stood beside him and he brought me to the door of the mosque where there was a white animal for me to ride.' The animal was a white winged horse.
The Prophet told of how he mounted the animal and, with the Archangel Gabriel at his side, was transported from Mecca. First of all, they went to the summit of Mount Sinai and then to the mosque called al-Aqsa in Jerusalem.
In Jerusalem, on the temple mount, at the rock of Mt. Moriah, Muhammad found Abraham, Moses, and Jesus among a group of Prophets. Muhammad acted as their leader, or imam, in prayer.
Then he was brought two jugs, one containing wine and the other milk. He chose the milk and refused the wine. At this, the Archangel Gabriel said, 'You have been rightly guided to the fitrah (the true nature of man) and so will your people be, Muhammad. Wine is forbidden to you. Which is why Muslims do not drink alcohol beverages.
The Prophet also related how they passed through Heaven's gates and saw countless angels. Among them was Malik, the Keeper of Hell, who never smiles. Malik stepped forward and showed the Prophet a view of Hell and the terrible plight of those who suffer in that place.
Then the Prophet was taken up by the angels, through the seven Heavens, one by one. Along the way he again saw Jesus, Moses, and Abraham, and the Prophet said that he had never seen a man more like himself than Abraham. He also saw John, Joseph, Enoch, and Aaron.
At last he reached the Lote Tree of the Uttermost, where no Prophet had been before. Here the Prophet received the Revelation.

lol!! another fictitious imagination...krishna never taught abt rebirth.

..
Krishna talks about rebirth in the Bhagwad Gita.

hinuism i.e. vedas here never claims many views of one god, again ur imagination is running wild or u r under influence of an illogical sadhu.....in order to know whether views contradict u need to know wat both views r......here both (qur'an and vedas) views r talking of no image of god and no idol worship..so just stick to tht for now.....

..
As a matter of fact many Hindus do not worship idols and many do. This is called freedom of religions afforded by Hindu culture. This is not available in Islamic culture.

there is everythng original in the qur'an...just because i agree with say 2 points out of 10 points of hinduism doesnt mean i agree with hinduism entirely......

there was no way of him plagiarizing frm vedas for many reasons ..one of which he never visited the indian subcontinent

Do not forget the idol worshippers of Mecca – they were probably Hindus and knew the Vedas.

and the vedas at tht time never reached the arab lands.

.
How do you know?

abt mansoor al hillaj too bad for him he shouldnt have said tht..

..
Why had Islam killed someone for claiming he is God?

now my own cat gives me a meoww!!

Very quaint expression. Is it an Arabic expression?

yes it's absolutely fair justification...makkah is not mecca after all..if u happen to visit saudi arabia ull see written as makkah....so nothing wrong with tht......muhammed never wrote 'mecca' expicitly ...so keep
crying abt tht alright!!!

You miss the point. Whether the bar is named Mecca or Makkah, the fact is there is a bar (actually there are many bars) in Arabia, where you claimed Mohammad got rid of all intoxicants for ever.

soon ill bombard u with questions on hinuism...

...
You are welcome. Remember, Hinduism is not based on the Quran and therefore is not a narrow-minded culture.

 

[K.Venugopal]

ABOUT U SAYING ABOUT PROPHET MUHAMMED MAY PEACE BE UPON HIM MARRYING AISHA AT 8

Arabs followed a custom in marrying a child who had her first menstrual cycle Muhammad's first wife - Khadija, died a few years before he fled to Medina.
Later, he was encouraged to take another wife. At the age of 49 he met Aisha, age six. Aisha was his closest friend's, Abu Bakr's, daughter. At that time, she had already met another man but by mutual consent (not forced) the betrothal was dissolved.Three years later, following her first menstrual cycle, he then formally married

Most Western people know it is not in a 9 year old girl's best interest to engage in marriage and sexual relations with a 52 year old man, regardless of the cultural setting. We know that, in our culture today, a person doing such a thing could possible be sent to prison for sex with a minor, statutory rape, or other related laws. Most of us find it questionable for Muhammad, a self proclaimed prophet of God, to do such a thing.

What is more critical than Muhammad's single action with Aisha is that he taught that a girl is considered an adult following her first menstrual cycle. He also taught that his
followers were to follow his "sunnah" or lifestyle. Thus today, throughout much of the
Mideast, girls as young as nine are often married by men old enough to be their grandfather.

But why then do we find it objectionable? After all, Muhammad did not live in our culture or under our law. And this custom of marrying girls after their first menses existed in the Mideast long before Muhammad. What is the basis or rejection of this Semite custom and Muhammad's precedent? Are there any valid reasons to criticize it? Or should it simply be rejected based upon our own cultural bias?

From Bukhari vol. 7, #65:
"Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).""
Bukhari vol. 7, #88:
"Narrated Urwa: "The prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).""

SCIENCE AND PUBERTY
How do the biological sciences address the topic of female puberty? Here are quotes from several college level text books, and the World Book Encyclopedia. There is a great deal of info presented, but it is necessary to provide scientific details to fully understand puberty.

From"Adolescence", by L. Steinberg, pub. by McGraw Hill, 1993. page 26:"The effects of the endocrinological changes of puberty on the adolescent's body are remarkable. Consider the dramatic changes in physical appearance that occur during the short
span of early adolescence. One enters puberty looking like a child and within FOUR years or so has the physical appearance of a young adult."
page 32 The onset of puberty can occur as early as8 years in girls and 9.5 in boys.In girls,the interval between the first sign of puberty and complete physical maturation can be as short as one and one-half years or as long as six years....

brother spare some time and ask a near by gynaecologist whether it is possible for a
9 yr old woman to conceive with the labour pains etc etc.......ull be shocked to know the answer as yes...........
IN SHORT ISLAM'S LAWS ARE NOT BASED ON CULTURE THAT MAY HAVE FLAWS WITHIN ITSELF LIKE HINDUISM BUT ON SCIENCE...HERE SCIENCE ENTIRELY AGREES WITH THE PROPHET MARRYING AISHA AT 9...WAT MAY BE CULTURAL FOR U MAY BR UNCULTURAL FOR ME AND THE CONVERSE COULD BE TRUE BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY SCIENCE IS VICTOR......its the indian government tht labels girls as legal marrying age of 18-19 and men 21 tht may not be necessary tht it is entirely a 'universally accepted cultural practice' in aisha's case she had attained a stage of puberty before marriage confirmed by scriptures..e.g. some states in US allow minimum age limit as 15 for girls and 16 in UK ....and brides as young as 8 yrs old in byzantine were married until recently...and remember aisha was no child labelled as 'minor' according to scientific approcah also i said most wives were married for political reasons not all...again u dont read carefully...

You have convinced me about the rightousness of Mohammad marrying a six year old girl at the age of 49. Great grandpa, lucky child!

krishna could never do justice to 16000 women it's impossible for one to do justice to 16000 wives at one time..

If Mohammad could fly on a carpet and a winged horse, Krishna could certainly take care of his 16,008 wives.

 

[England my lionheart]

I take it that hindus and muslims are not the best of buddies.

 

[K.Venugopal]

I take it that hindus and muslims are not the best of buddies.

I do not represent any community. I speak only for myself.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Hi!

It's not at all unusual for one individual to have originated a religion!

The same is arguably true of Christianity, where without Jesus Christianity would never have happened, Buddhism--ditto for Gautama Buddha--, the Babi Faith--due to the Bab--, the Baha'i Faith--established by Baha'u'llah--, and arguably the Zoroastrian Faith as well (Zoroaster)!

So Muhammad is hardly unique in that respect.

There seems to be a pattern here! . . .

Best,

Bruce

 

[England my lionheart]

Hi!

It's not at all unusual for one individual to have originated a religion!

The same is arguably true of Christianity, where without Jesus Christianity would never have happened, Buddhism--ditto for Gautama Buddha--, the Babi Faith--due to the Bab--, the Baha'i Faith--established by Baha'u'llah--, and arguably the Zoroastrian Faith as well (Zoroaster)!

So Muhammad is hardly unique in that respect.

There seems to be a pattern here! . . .

Best,

Bruce

Yes i agree,in all cases revealed to one person,however in Jesus case there was previous history because of the jewish connection.

 

[K.Venugopal]

THIS IS 123 AS 001:the moderator for some reason couldnt gulp the versus i quoted frm the bible,or other comments,hence banned me,anyways..

123 born again as 001. A great re-birth.

u say' so doesnt mean it will happen so, ive given u statistics to prove my point, u could always google it and check up.. .u would know tht the religion having largest no. of followers today is christianity..now in 2005 no. of christians in the world=24% and no.of muslims 14% seeing before 2005 muslims r much less and christians much more....in 2011 estimated by UN: no. of christians in world=no. of muslims in world=17% of world population.....and thereon after muslims keep growing ...as far as hinuism ur people dont even come as close as 5% of world population.....so ur the one whos dreaming not us

Statistics are not constant. While educated projections are reasonable, there are always undercurrents to any circumstance. Islamic societies have always been closed societies. Now it is beginning to open up, slowly but surely. I base my ‘assumptions’ of liberal religions being more acceptable in the coming days on the inevitable spread of free thoughts around the globe. The ‘Quran-is-the-last-word-of-God’ myth will collapse before long.

also 'islamic fanaticism and narrow-mindness' are only ur views, seems the world at large doesnt agree with ur views which is precisely why islam is growing.

.
Here, I hope my view would be proved wrong because if what is growing is not fanaticism and narrow-mindedness, then I would say, let Islam grow by all means. Let’s hope Muslims will put their foot down on fanatical and narrow minded interpretation of Islam more and more in the days to come, as they did in the case of a teddy-bear named Mohammad, where Sudanese Muslims wanted the teacher’s head while UK Muslims said, “Hey, that’s not Islam.” I see the most happy possibility of Islam being transformed into Sufism.

look i dont have any illusions of saudi arabia(refering to sufism),i only care abt significance of the kaaba in makkah and travel to medina.....there are many muslimplaces around the world, saudi arabia is not the only one..u also have egypt and many others.

“Muslim countries, Muslim countries everywhere, But not a single country to call Allah’s perfect Muslim country . . .” Is this what you are saying?

Qur'an predicts tht the only religion tht will finally prevail will be islam(u can see tht happening toady as it's unstoppable growth),if u want to challenge tht prophecy ,try prooving it wrong by inverting the statistics.....

.
When do you expect this prophesy of Quran to be fulfilled?

YES!! if 2+2=4 then i say it is,if u want me to say 2+2=5, i wont agree and u can label it as narrow mindness or watever u like.......the only thing left to prove is tht im the one saying 2+2=4 and ur the one saying 2+2=5...tht's wat needs to be debated......god does not give contradicting views by saying all religions(having diff practices differences in beleifs etc)are the true way to him.....if he does he would become illogical..

.
2+2 = 4. Is this a Quranic discovery? Obviously everyone knew even before the Quran was written that 2+2=4. So what is this 2+2=4 example all about?

so!!!ur saying i could kill u too(if ur bad) only to beleive tht ull be reborn again

According to Krishna’s teaching, everybody will be born again and again till they perfect themselves and don’t need to be born again.

huh!!amazing 'indu logic'...besides dont degrade the high honor of lord kishna..he fought for rights and tht's entirely righteous...

Good to have you say that Krishna was righteous in spite of “killing cousins”. What about Allah, roasting those who don’t believe Him in hell forever, and making sure the non-believers will suffer pain forever by renewing their skins constantly?

and he never said theyll be reborn again in this world..i repeat vedas dont teach tht..oh yes if u reject the ultimate truth ur gonna get roasted for sure!!!

The entire Hindu culture is based on the believe in rebirths.

Rigveda mantra 10/88/15 states that upon death the soul either takes the path of Devyan or Pitriyan - in the former there is no birth again and in the later there is rebirth.

tht's because wat adam preached was coincident with islam's laws,like monotheism,no images of god,etc, etc....

Why would Adam, who walked with God, want to preach about God having no image? And since the talk of many Gods had not come in, to whom was he preaching that there is only one God?

god revealed book's even earlier but every time man failed to preserve them,god kept giving man a chance and man kept failing miserably to preserve them.

.
Are you saying that every time Allah sent a book, the book failed? Maybe he was fed-up of repeatedly sending books to man that he said, “This is it and no more” and sent the Quran. Moreover, if God’s earlier books failed, how can we be sure that the Quran also will not fail?

even jesus was a muslim , he said 'i submit my will to god' and tht's a definition of the word 'muslim'

Islam came after Jesus, so how could Jesus have been a Muslim? Would Allah be pleased with a Muslim who didn’t say 5 times prayers with specific posturing? Jesus did not do it because such prayers were not invented till Mohammad. Didn’t Allah hope that all Muslims would go for Hajj at least once in a life time? Jesus would not even have heard of Mecca, let alone go for Hajj. Jesus claimed he is son of God. Would Allah have approved? Jesus said show them your right cheek who slaps you on the left. Allah said, “Kill the disbelievers”. What sort of a Muslim was Jesus? Last but not least, Jesus submitted his will to God, his father. Was Allah Jesus’ father?

besides we beleive in the 'ingeel' given to jesus by god but wat bible u see today is not even close to the injeel originally given,

Where is the Injeel that Allah sent? How did Allah’s word go into oblivion? Is the same fate awaited for the Quran?

besides he is one of our greatest messengers of god.........qur'an is final message tht man could preserve....

.
Jesus was the son of God, please don’t degrade him into the position of a mere messenger.

 

[K.Venugopal]

when i say holy book my reference is towards 'the vedas'....

You are from the religion of believers-of-a-SINGLE BOOK (and some lost unseen books). So what do you know of the culture of Hinduism. Hinduism has many books and Vedas are only one of them. You cannot force anyone to quote only from the book of your choice.

if the vedas dont have this message,r u saying the message of krishna in bhagwad gita is different than the message in the vedas????

Hindus believe all messages are one expressed in various ways. All Hindu messages point to our divinity. Hinduism says we are children of God, Islam says we are slaves of God.

i dont know if u consider the vedas or not???but vedas r regarded more holy thn all ur other hinduism books combined together according to experts,

All Holy Scriptures are the Hindus’ heritage. There is no question of more holy or less holy. Vedas are widely considered as the earliest scripture. Therefore it is natural to revert to the Vedas, for that’s as far back as you can get.

if u visit wikipedia it says the bhagwad gita was written by a devotee of another indian deity,krishna around 150.B.C...whereas the vedas date back in 1500B.C. ........which is more holy to follow?????if vedas then why do u follow bhagwad gita and not vedas when it comes to no idol worshipping and giving him no images??????

If you agree that the more ancient a scripture the holier it is, why don’t you reject the Quran and follow the Vedas? Particularly as the Vedas talk of imageless worship without idol worship. (Are you sure Mohammad did not copy from the Vedas?) Instead Islam says reject all other scriptures and follow only the Quran.

besides muhammed was truly a propet because he didnt want people to worship him

Why do Muslims say PBUH every time they mention Mohammad’s name. Is this not a form of worship?

europe???ill tell u the double standards of europe...they allow salman rushdie(a liar) to write a book tht abuses europeans themselves,blacks,all muslims and all women of all nations(including indians)....and here comes a muslim(indian born) called ahmed deedat telling the european government to only allow him to quote versus(including the abusives) only frm salman rushdie's book to the world and he would be ready to give charity of 1 million pounds to europe...and U.K. explicitly denies his appeal.....but allows rushdie to publish his book....

Salman Rushdie’s book is not banned in Europe. So I wonder why Ahmed Deedat was refused permission.

now,'protesting in middle east violently' means wat??? they protested in frustration.......when ur shiv saniks or watever found one morning tht the gold of some god in a temple here in mumbai at dadar was stolen they raised hulla-gulla abt it..i was caught in tht crossfire in mumbai, when they eventually declared a ban tht day and everythng was forcefully closed by ur shiv saniks and all violence had broken loose........and to their suprise later a hindu was caught stealing....

Thanks for telling that you are from Mumbai. Or were you visiting India and not a citizen? About Shiv Sena “hulla-gulla” (You are an Indian – no foreigner is likely to use this expression.) they did not protest because a Muslim stole it. They protested because it was stolen. This is genuine democratic expression of ire.

sites on the internet cannot be just banned tht easily,there is enormous pressure abt this on the islamic states(u dont happen to know this) ...it's precisely why there r innumerable illegal pornographic sites on the internet many even indian because it's not possible to just remove them so easily.......

Ha! Ha! Ha! If you could help it, you would ban the internet (except for publishing official Islam).

idol worshipping is wrong , ur vedas themselves confirm that..so if u complain abt it ..ur going against ur own vedas,ur own authority, ur own law, ur own god...........so stop beating round the bush and stop idol-worshipping....

Thank you for your advice. However, Hindu culture gives everyone the freedom to accept the Vedas or reject it - unlike the Islamic culture which says, believe in Quran or hellfire. If you want to convince idol worshippers not to worship idols, you must first stop kissing your black stone in Mecca. The Vedas do not prohibit idol worship. It goes on to the higher stages of worship till the need for worship ends with the realization that the worshipper is the worshipped. But Islam eternally preaches idol worship because it teaches that the worshipper and the worshipped are eternally separate.

i told u have no proof......and im talking abt vedas anyways

..
If you insist all proof must come from the Vedas alone, you are only reflecting your limitation as a ONE BOOK adherent. The Hindus have many sources of scriptures and the Bhagvad Gita is universally recognized as one such source.

why dont all hindus beleive so??????

Here you want all Hindus to believe in a certain way. Again, Hindus are not limited by any Quranic injunction.

 

[K.Venugopal]

ur own god doesnt give u the freedom of beleiving in idols...go read the vedas..it prohibits and doesnt give u an option of beleiving in idols....

In case you do not know, the cornerstone of the Vedas is the vision: Truth is one, it is expressed variously. For Hindus, idol-worship is a celebration of divinity. Vedas give us all options, unlike the Quran.

oh really...in tht case if u happen to know those pagans also beleived free sexual intermingling,dancing girls,selling ones daughters,sisters for a few grands of gold,wine drinking,keeping slaves etc etc was their right..does the vedas confirm all these practices also???? !!!!!!!

Does the Quran confirm suicide bombings?

because veda originated in india,muhammed lived in arabia and to get to arabia u need a sea vehicle...the first such sea vehicle built was in late 1700's in india .i.e.some 350 yrs ago,muhammed lived 1400 yrs ago(ur question is very illogical)

Mohammad knew about India and spoke about India. Al Hind was well known in the Arabic world. You could travel to Arabia through the land route also. So what makes you say you need a sea vehicle to get to Arabia? Did Dr. Zakir Naik say the same thing?

simply because a human cannot be a god at the same time....and he's only degrading god....how can u degrade the almighty??

Yes indeed, how can you degrade the Almighty? Verily, he is not degraded.

when i say 'barrels of arabia never to be refilled again' i hope u understand it's a figure of speech....

Meaning, they would be refilled again?

i m saying tht it was illegalized in those lands so whether 1 muslim out of 1000 drinks wine or trades wine is not my concern..in tht case tht person is not a muslim(only claiming to be so).......anyways muslims have a lower alcoholic consumption than most other religions,

You say no one who drinks is a Muslim. Then you say Muslims have a lower alcoholic consumption. Is this also a figure of speech?

as far as indus dont make me compare ur alcoholic consumption with ours, itll only embarass u further......

“Indus” can drink as much as they want. Why should I be embarrassed?

mecca translates to bar...and not makkah...'mecca bar' is in US,UK and australia and some other places.....also there is no legalized bar in makkah....

Thank you for the clarification.

tht's wat i call as pretentious speech..ur convinced u say but doesnt seem so....

I thought some sarcasm was in order.

(i had read a 'indu' married a dog in some place, please enlighten me whether in indu culture r men are allowed to marry dogs???)

Yes, yes. “Indus” can do all sorts of things, including marrying dogs, trees and all that. When I was in Arabia I heard stories of special relationship between the Bedus and their camels and donkeys – particularly donkeys. Maybe you’ve heard of bestiality.

also abt the bukhari hadith tht says: is true, also in islam we dont beleive in winged horses to exist in this world..but u missed the most important point::the prophet was sleeping and wat followed was just a dream......a dream my boy, u missed reading 'dream' ...in dreams we see many thngs dont we???winged horses,flying carpets,etc,etc....it clearly states tht prophet loved telling his people of what he dreamt and wat follows is a dream....and before waking up he was revealed a true revelation.....

..
Was this verse in the Quran also a dream? [Quran 17:1] “Most glorified is the One who summoned His servant (Muhammad) during the night, from the Sacred Masjid (of Mecca) to the farthest place of prostration, whose surroundings we have blessed, in order to show him some of our signs. He is the Hearer, the Seer.”

YES MUHAMMED COULD FLY ON A CARPET AND A WINGED HORSE IN HIS DREAM,BUT NOW U AGREE THAT KRISHNA CERTAINLY COULD NOT DO JUSTICE TO 16008 WIVES......

Maybe Krishna did it in his dreams?

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Hey penguino i hope i have'nt offended you .

No, not all mate.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

I take it that hindus and muslims are not the best of buddies.

You got that right. 123 (101) seems brainwashed. And gives us fake vedic verses. He calls K.Venugopal a monkey, he called me a brother (uh....na) Im glad he got banned. He's got a BIG mouth.

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

Wow, quite an intense debate. Quite pointless, however, I can provide answers to many of your questions venugopal for instance:

Why Muslims' kiss black stone, isn't it idol-worship?
It is mentioned in sahih bukhari (can't remember the exact location): Hazrazt Umar said that " I only kiss this black stone because Prophet (P.B.U.H) kissed it, otherwise it can neither bring me harm nor good."

Had Muhammad copied Quran from Vedas?????
There was no access to India at that time. Secondly, I assure you that Quraish were not Hindus. Their belief was in: One supreme God and that he had many daughters (they made idols of these) to support him. I do think that Hinduism is not this.

Flight Of Muhammad on Horse:
Certainly, easier to believe in as a miracle. Don't Christians and muslims believe in miraculous birth of Jesus (P.B.U.H), or Moses (P.B.U.H) splitting the river for passage of Jews? Personally, i believe that flight on Horse was a miracle. Are we to question the Power of God, that this cannot be done? Aren't their any mentioned miracles in Hinduism?
But pointless, as neither would I accept ur views nor u mine.

 

[lew0049]

You got that right. 123 (101) seems brainwashed. And gives us fake vedic verses. He calls K.Venugopal a monkey, he called me a brother (uh....na) Im glad he got banned. He's got a BIG mouth.

Huh? You talking about me? Saw the reference to #123

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Now we have another one... Get the stray jacket people...

 

[Don Penguinoini]

damn antarctic beast...i thought of u as sensible.....i started this because it was the apeman tht pointed fingers at me.....too bad ull see me crushing ur religious(faulty) ideology near ur very own eyes.....

u really think the moderator can ban me forever,how many times will he ban me,he'll get tired at one point.......im gonna squish ur little mouth, u 2 and half fotted animal!!!!

the versus i quoted r frm ur original vedas...so dont lie......

when he say's abt ur god nagging 16000women and using viagra u can forgive him instantly, and when i say the truth, u label me a liar...u know why ur doing tht, because im a muslim and he's not.

ill cut ur 2 flappy fins and drown u inside ur own waters u biased rascist freak....

Umm... Maybe you don't (well you don't) Mods can ban IP addresses. Peguins arent beasts! They are really cute! I'm not going to reply in an offensive manner as you have, since i find your words from the mouth of a two year old.

You can't hinestly call me a racist, when you parade the streets wanting non-believers heads to be cut of. Muslims are good people, i can't let one insignificant one of a billion taint a whole culture.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Huh? You talking about me? Saw the reference to #123

! No, not you. The user 123, 101 and now scomma. The admins need to ban his IP.

 

[K.Venugopal]

Wow, quite an intense debate. Quite pointless, however, I can provide answers to many of your questions venugopal for instance: “Why Muslims' kiss black stone, isn't it idol-worship? It is mentioned in sahih bukhari (can't remember the exact location): Hazrazt Umar said that " I only kiss this black stone because Prophet (P.B.U.H) kissed it, otherwise it can neither bring me harm nor good."

So the question is, why did Mohammad kiss the black stone? Muslims do not know because Mohammad chose not to explain his action. Since almost everything else Mohammad did was considered in detail in the Hadidths, I wonder why this action was omitted, something that has become part of the Hajj pilgrimage?

Had Muhammad copied Quran from Vedas?????

There was no access to India at that time.

Why no access? The Jews had come to India much before Mohammad’s time. India had trade links with ancient Greece and merchant routes passed through the Middle East. Alexander came toIndia after passing through Arabia and conquering Persia. Al Hind was well known in Arabia even before Mohammad. One hadidth has quoted Mohammad as saying, “Rich fragrance comes from Al Hind.” And another which says, “Go to China for knowledge.” Mohammad himself was much travelled in Arabia and even beyond Arabia. Mohammad may have been an illiterate man, but he was certainly not an ignorant man. If he could pick up ideas of circumcision and skull cap from the Jews, he could have picked up some Vedic ideas from travelers coming from India. Of course you will deny this because you maintain every word in the Quran came from Allah. Even if so, since a scholar like Dr.Zakir Naik is certain that Allah wrote the Vedas also, what is wrong in suggesting that Vedic ideas are in the Quran? After all both are Allah’s words.

Secondly, I assure you that Quraish were not Hindus. Their belief was in: One supreme God and that he had many daughters (they made idols of these) to support him. I do think that Hinduism is not this.

Why could it not have been Hinduism? Hinduism is almost everything under the sun. Further, the Quraish was not the only tribe in Mecca. The Vedas were extant throughout the world long before Veda Vyas put it down in a book form. Dr. Zakir Naik says the Vedas had predicted the birth of Mohammad and about Mohammad meeting some King of India. Maybe Mohammad got some direct instruction on the Vedas from this King. Only a deeper study by Dr. Zakir Naik can clear doubts about this. Dr. Zakir Naik is a young man and has many more years of scholarship ahead of him. I am sure he will come up with great revelations on the link between Mohammad and the Vedas.

Flight Of Muhammad on Horse: Certainly, easier to believe in as a miracle. Don't Christians and muslims believe in miraculous birth of Jesus (P.B.U.H), or Moses (P.B.U.H) splitting the river for passage of Jews? Personally, i believe that flight on Horse was a miracle. Are we to question the Power of God, that this cannot be done? Aren't their any mentioned miracles in Hinduism?

I am happy that you take this view – that of seeing commonality in all religions. In short, Quran is not unique – it is one of the many scriptures that the world has and will come to have in the future.

 

[K.Venugopal]

brother...thnk u for those clarifications although i too had all those answers...the dum 'indus' need to learn a lesson for sure...

Of course, only those who know the Quran are wise, all others are "dum", particularly "indus" - they worship the idols that Mohammad destroyed in Mecca (while retaining a stone from outer space for him to kiss and his followers to ditto).