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Validity of Muhammad's message.

MFaraz_Hayat

Active Member
“Man We did create
from a quintessence (of clay);
then We placed him
as (a drop of) sperm
in a place of rest, firmly fixed;
then We made the sperm
into a clot of congealed blood;
then of that clot We made
a (foetus) lump;
then We made out of that
lump bones and clothed
the bones with flesh;
then We developed
out of it another creature.
so blessed be Allah,
the Best to create!”
[Al-Qur’ an 23:12-14]
In this verse Allah states that man is created from
a small quantity of liquid which is placed in a place
of rest, firmly fixed (well established or lodged) for
which the Arabic word qaraarin makeen is used.
The uterus is well protected from the posterior by
the spinal column supported firmly by the back
muscles. The embryo is further protected by the
amniotic sac containing the amniotic fluid. Thus
the foetus has a well protected dwelling place.
This small quantity of fluid is made into alaqah,
meaning something which clings. It also means
a leech-like substance. Both descriptions are
scientifically acceptable as in the very early stages
the foetus clings to the wall and also appears to
resemble the leech in shape. It also behaves like a
leech (blood sucker) and acquires its blood supply
from the mother through the placenta.
The third meaning of the word alaqah is a blood
clot. During this alaqah stage, which spans the
third and fourth week of pregnancy, the blood clots
within closed vessels. Hence the embryo acquires
the appearance of a blood clot in addition to
acquiring the appearance of a leech. Compare the
readily available Qur'anic knowledge with Man's
struggle with scientific findings:
In 1677, Hamm and Leeuwenhoek were the
first scientists to observe human sperm cells
(spermatozoa) through a microscope. They thought
that a sperm cell contained a miniature human
being which grew in the uterus to form a newborn.
This was known as the perforation theory. When
scientists discovered that the ovum was bigger than
the sperm, it was thought by scientists like De Graf
and others that the foetus existed in a miniature
form in the ovum. Later, in the 18th century,
Maupertuis propagated the theory of biparental
inheritance.
The alaqah is transformed into mudghah which
means ‘something that is chewed (having teeth
marks)’ and also something that is tacky and small
which can be put in the mouth like gum. Both these
explanations are scientifically correct. Prof. Keith
Moore took a piece of plaster seal and made it into
the size and shape of the early stage of foetus and
chewed it between the teeth to make it into a
mudghah. He compared this with the photographs
of the early stage of foetus. The teeth marks
resembled the ‘somites’ which is the early formation
of the spinal column.
This mudghah is transformed into bones (izâm).
The bones are clothed with intact flesh or muscles
(lahm). Then Allah makes it into another creature.
Prof. Marshall Johnson who is one of the leading
scientists in the USA, and is the head of the
Department of Anatomy and Director of the Daniel
Institute at the Thomas Jefferson University in
Philadelphia in the USA, was asked to comment on
the verses of the Qur’an dealing with embryology. At
first he said that the verses of the Qur’an describing
the embryological stages cannot be a coincidence. It
was probable that Muhammad (pbuh) had a powerful
microscope. On being reminded that the Qur’an was
revealed 1400 years ago, and microscopes were
invented many centuries after the time of Prophet
Muhammad (pbuh), Prof. Johnson laughed and
admitted that the first microscope invented could not
magnify more than 10 times and could not show a
clear picture.
Later he said: “I see nothing here in conflict with
the concept that Divine intervention was involved
when Muhammad (pbuh) recited the Qur’an.”1
According to Dr. Keith Moore, the modern
classification of embryonic development stages
which is adopted throughout the world, is not
easily comprehensible, since it identifies stages
on a numerical basis i.e. stage 1, stage 2, etc. On the
other hand, the divisions revealed in the Qur’an are
based on distinct and easily identifiable forms or
shapes, which the embryo passes through. These
are based on different phases of pre-natal
development
and provide elegant scientific descriptions that are
comprehensible and practical.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
by the way i am in a forum about homosexuals what is the qur'ans take on this subject,i am not one myself but i would ike to know from you as you seem to know the qur'an well
 

MFaraz_Hayat

Active Member
by the way i am in a forum about homosexuals what is the qur'ans take on this subject,i am not one myself but i would ike to know from you as you seem to know the qur'an well
I see that you have not found fault with the embryology part, It's good.The topic of homosexuality has been discussed in Surah (Chapter) Lut of the Quran. Prophet Lut was sent to Sodom and those who lived there practised homosexuality. He tried to stop them and they didn't listen and even tried to have sex with Angels who came as beautiful men and so were destroyed. Search the net, the surah is quite commonly known.
I don't have enough knowledege about homosexuality and Islam and so would not give any comment ( for it might be wrong).
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
I see that you have not found fault with the embryology part, It's good.The topic of homosexuality has been discussed in Surah (Chapter) Lut of the Quran. Prophet Lut was sent to Sodom and those who lived there practised homosexuality. He tried to stop them and they didn't listen and even tried to have sex with Angels who came as beautiful men and so were destroyed. Search the net, the surah is quite commonly known.
I don't have enough knowledege about homosexuality and Islam and so would not give any comment ( for it might be wrong).

Thanks
 

moegypt

Active Member
LOL i love it ,the moon part i mean,it has just been interpreted very loosly,there is nothing to substantiate any of this. If the qur'an was clear on what is claimed in this website we should be two thousand years further down the line.
People like Einstein,gallileo,capernicus,columbus(the list is too long)need not have bothered with there discoveries and the middle east would'nt be in the mess its in.
No my dear fellow its not in any way clear what is written in the qur'an and i canot even say nice try.

As i said to you before,

Don't look at muslims look at the Qur'an.

Take the islam from the Qur'an not from muslims.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
As i said to you before,

Don't look at muslims look at the Qur'an.

Take the islam from the Qur'an not from muslims.

I have read a little more and i see that both the bible and qur'an were written by men,because both are quite cryptic and not crystal clear at all and wide open to interpretation.
and very similar
 

MFaraz_Hayat

Active Member
I have read a little more and i see that both the bible and qur'an were written by men,because both are quite cryptic and not crystal clear at all and wide open to interpretation.
and very similar
I believe that the verses I provided were quite clear. Clear enough to get credentials from a non-muslim, weren't they?
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
Its not that i do not get any of the books of the differing religions and do not have a real problem with any as most have some good things in them its the way manind use them ,that is the problem
 

moegypt

Active Member
I have read a little more and i see that both the bible and qur'an were written by men,because both are quite cryptic and not crystal clear at all and wide open to interpretation.
and very similar


11|13|Or they say: He hath invented it. Say: Then bring ten surahs, the like thereof, invented, and call on everyone ye can beside Allah, if ye are truthful!
 
How can we expect such an old religious text to be crystal clear to us? They are old and are in poetic form. It is old, and the language is old. We have evolved and changed our language so it is easier to understand. People, throught time, have done so with religion texts. In some extreme cases, have CHANGED the religious texts, intentionally and unintentionally. But we cannot blame anyone for this. Or point fingers at certain texts.
 

K.Venugopal

Immobile Wanderer
11|13|Or they say: He hath invented it. Say: Then bring ten surahs, the like thereof, invented, and call on everyone ye can beside Allah, if ye are truthful!

This is a challenge all Muslims take to be the winning argument that the Quran is truly the word of God. Actually the challenge was to produce a work that is a masterpiece of Arabic literature as the Quran is. We have to accept the word of connoisseurs of Arabic literature that this challenge has so far not been met. But if the take the Quran in translation and consider Marmaduke Pickthall's translation, which is arguably the best English translation of the Quran, we would no doubt concede that its literature is remarkable. However, when I compare it with the King James Version of the Bible, I would say that King James Bible surpasses the Quran in excellence of literature, particularly as the Bible is so simple to understand and hardly needs interpretation. Which is why devils like me are comfortable quoting the Bible because they mean exactly what they say, particularly the Sermon on the Mount.

Of course, exactly 1000 years after the Quran, William Shakespeare produced in English a literature of such scintillating excellence that we at this point of time would tend to think it will never be surpassed. But then human genius has a tendency to excel itself.
 

MFaraz_Hayat

Active Member
This is a challenge all Muslims take to be the winning argument that the Quran is truly the word of God. Actually the challenge was to produce a work that is a masterpiece of Arabic literature as the Quran is. We have to accept the word of connoisseurs of Arabic literature that this challenge has so far not been met. But if the take the Quran in translation and consider Marmaduke Pickthall's translation, which is arguably the best English translation of the Quran, we would no doubt concede that its literature is remarkable. However, when I compare it with the King James Version of the Bible, I would say that King James Bible surpasses the Quran in excellence of literature, particularly as the Bible is so simple to understand and hardly needs interpretation. Which is why devils like me are comfortable quoting the Bible because they mean exactly what they say, particularly the Sermon on the Mount.

Of course, exactly 1000 years after the Quran, William Shakespeare produced in English a literature of such scintillating excellence that we at this point of time would tend to think it will never be surpassed. But then human genius has a tendency to excel itself.
Isn't that ummm contradictory? You first agreed that the challenge was concerning Arabic and later compare English literature with A transliteration of Quran?
Let me tell you that transliteration is indeed work of a human being. Secondly, words in Arabic have got many meanings attached to a same word for eg:
"Alaqa: it means 1: congealed clot of blood 2: leech like substance and one more that I have forgotten.
It was translated as clot of blood though it has other meanings. And the other two also fit the description or can be taken as parts of verse.
 

K.Venugopal

Immobile Wanderer
Isn't that ummm contradictory? You first agreed that the challenge was concerning Arabic and later compare English literature with A transliteration of Quran?
Let me tell you that transliteration is indeed work of a human being. Secondly, words in Arabic have got many meanings attached to a same word for eg:
"Alaqa: it means 1: congealed clot of blood 2: leech like substance and one more that I have forgotten.
It was translated as clot of blood though it has other meanings. And the other two also fit the description or can be taken as parts of verse.

What I meant was that only the Arabic connoisseurs could decide whether Quran's literature has been surpassed. But we, folks on RF, using the medium of English here, would only be able to compare works of English literature and have no choice but to go by a translation of the Quran into English. It’s at best one of the many great works of literature. Hardly a befitting position for a work of God.

Are you trying to say that the Quran is untranslatable? Then maybe it was a work meant only for the Arabs?
 

vandervalley

Active Member
After I read the posts I can only conclude that Koran is easily manipulated by those who want to use violence against others.

A violent person can easily use koranic verses to justify his violent deeds.

For example sucide bombers and terrorists in gerneral.

A book that can be easily manipulated and used by violent people to justify violent acts is a danger to the society and needs to be changed.
 
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