Validity of Muhammad's message.

[MFaraz_Hayat]

You did not understand what is written in your koran. You even blow-up the phrase;

"...against those who fight against you"

Yes, it talked about what I said. Because the word "fight" in the verse cannot be interpreted one way... as fight with arms, fight in war or jihad. Muslims fight their enemies when they feel they are insulted. For example the killing of Van Gogh in Holland is fight in the way of Allah. A fatwa to kill Salman Rushdie for insulting Muhammad. Hirsi Ali and Wafa Sultan are protected by police because there are threats to their lives. These brave women fought islam not by arms but by exposing islam as a wrong religion. If you are insulted because of your religion... do you think you retaliate with a kiss.

I think the talk was about Islam not muslims. If muslims are your criteria to judge Islam, my friend then it is pointless to argue with you any longer. I would say however that Hitler was a christian and massacred millions on basis of christianity. Still, i do not attribute terrorism to christianity.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

To repeat... The idolaters are the unbelievers. I think you did not get my point when I said that;

'There is always danger and terror hanging over his head that if he does not seek the protection of Muhammad he will be slaugthered.'

Again where is your evidence.

Yes... there is terror and danger hanging over an unbeliever's head if he does not seek the protection of Muhammad.

really what about his uncle's? Why did he not kill them? I am talking about Abu Lahab and Abu Talib if what you say is true.
Seek the protection of Muhammed? Are you kidding me? Do you really know the history of Islam and what happened in Muhammed's seerah. do you know what the jizyah is?

You say alot with no evidence, as Allah says in the Quran when a stranger comes to you with news verify lest you may harm the people. You haven't verified much and what you say can bring great harm for you speak ill of the greatest.

What war? Is it revolutionary... or is it a civil war? The answer is; It is a religious war.

does it matter?

Muhammad is not a known political leader but he is more popular as a religious warrior.

to who? you? To the 1 billion muslims on the planet. To the many social historians of arabia who know him more for his character in terms of how his religion changed them socially. Or to the many non muslims who have studied the life of Muhammed from the beginning to the end. for his first war came 13 years later. Is that was the case for Sir Thomas Michael Hart who wrote a book called the ranking of the 100 most influencial people in history. Or to the countless people like the Pope or Bernard shaw, and many other great thinkers who had a different outlook then you.


So anybody on the opposite side seeking the protection of Muhammad should recite the mantra that; "There is no other god but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet." If they [unbelievers or idolaters] don't believe they will be slaughtered. Yuo get the point?[/quote]so their only choice is Islam or die? A person is forced into Islam, interesting. so what is the jizyah and why is it a command in the Quran?

 

[Balolho]

You know, I know many people from west more kind than you.

You should learn yourself how to talk and how to debate.

Your answers are very weak....

You hate Islam... Ok hate it... But Islam will continue to spread with: LA ILAHA ILA ALLAH.

And also, You should read history well.. to know that who was strong become weak and who was weak becomes strong.. This is the life... And changes will happen in the future.

I'm sorry if I hurt you personally. It is not my intention. I'm only saying my opinion against doctrinal teaching in islam. If somebody will say that the virgin Mary is a whore or Jesus Christ is a pimp it doesn't hurt me because I'm not brainwashed in my religion. It does not affect me personally.

In your case you are putting too much emphasis on what is no longer applicable today. If I have to advice you... I'll tell you to free yourself from religious indoctrination. Which do you prefer a heaven on earth today or a paradise yet to come. Chances are, the paradise you are waiting is not even true.

 

[S.Z (Muslim)]

I'm sorry if I hurt you personally. It is not my intention. I'm only saying my opinion against doctrinal teaching in islam. If somebody will say that the virgin Mary is a whore or Jesus Christ is a pimp it doesn't hurt me because I'm not brainwashed in my religion. It does not affect me personally.

In your case you are putting too much emphasis on what is no longer applicable today. If I have to advice you... I'll tell you to free yourself from religious indoctrination. Which do you prefer a heaven on earth today or a paradise yet to come. Chances are, the paradise you are waiting is not even true.

Prove it will not come.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

I'm sorry if I hurt you personally. It is not my intention. I'm only saying my opinion against doctrinal teaching in islam. If somebody will say that the virgin Mary is a whore or Jesus Christ is a pimp it doesn't hurt me because I'm not brainwashed in my religion. It does not affect me personally.

Really it is funny what if I called your mother a whore or said your father is a pimp and added more to it a pedophile. Now I am not saying this at all. but to say it does not affect you when someone you supposedly put all your love and faith in is attacked. if someone attacks my mom or family with words believe me I will fight back. Maybe not with fists or guns but with wisdom, knowledge and patience. If someone speaks ill about any of them it is a duty and a responsibility to speak up on their behalf. does Allah need me to defend Him, or Jesus, Muhammed, or Mary. No, but it is something I do for the love of them and Allah and my love for them is greater then that of the creation.

In your case you are putting too much emphasis on what is no longer applicable today.

Praying, fasting, being modest, giving to the poor, taking care of the orphans, defend the weak, help those in need, worship only Allah, obey his Messenger by following his example, get married treat your wives, children, family and friends with love, patience, and compassion. Being grateful to God and to the creation. Upholding the rights that Allah gives his creation, speak kind words and do deeds of righteousness are things no longer applicable to today. This is what being a muslim is. This is what the Quran teaches. You telling me there is no need for any of these things that we should just do as we like not conforming to a specific way but do and treat the creation in whatever way we like.

If I have to advice you... I'll tell you to free yourself from religious indoctrination. Which do you prefer a heaven on earth today or a paradise yet to come. Chances are, the paradise you are waiting is not even true.

I prefer paradise to come for if this is the best the earth has got I will pass. Besides paradise is true, and Hellfire is true why because Allah and His Messenger speak the truth. there is more of a chance of you ending up in Hellfire for disbelieving in the Quran, Allah and His Messenger then there is of no paradise.

for reality does not need you to believe in it inorder for it to be a truth of existence. Just as the people in the time of Galileo. the church and those who persecuted him for saying the world was round believed that it was flat. The reality of it is that they all were wrong in their belief. they made all kinds of claims but when you look at teh reality of it. It is clear they were in a state of disbelief for their belief was proven wrong.

 

[moegypt]

To repeat... The idolaters are the unbelievers. I think you did not get my point when I said that;

'There is always danger and terror hanging over his head that if he does not seek the protection of Muhammad he will be slaugthered.'

Yes... there is terror and danger hanging over an unbeliever's head if he does not seek the protection of Muhammad. What is this protection? The answer is; To believe islam. Once he believed, an unbeliever is then told to recite the mantra that; "There is no other god but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet." That is his protection! And it's his conversion to islam.

No, My friend

In Qur'an you will find aya:

109|6|Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.

and the Aya you talk about doesn't say: He must be a muslim to be saved.

9|6|And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the word of Allah; and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not.

It talks about" Hearing what Allah says" not to be a mulsim... To be a muslim is up to him.

 

[moegypt]

If I have to advice you... I'll tell you to free yourself from religious indoctrination. Which do you prefer a heaven on earth today or a paradise yet to come. Chances are, the paradise you are waiting is not even true.

Thanks for your kind words,

Also, My advice to you is to know that the human is a miracle... This miracle is not for free offer... Every thing has a start and end... and who created us before, can create us after.

 

[moegypt]

Is that was the case for Sir Thomas Michael Hart who wrote a book called the ranking of the 100 most influencial people in history. Or to the countless people like the Pope or Bernard shaw, and many other great thinkers who had a different outlook then you.

Yes, Sir Thomas Michael put Mohammad(PBUH) in the top of the list before his brothers Jesus(PBUH) and Moses(PBUH)

 

[lew0049]

He married the girl, he didn't necessarily consumate that marriage when she was 9. Good Christian men in England were entering into marriages with 7 year olds only a few 100 years ago, but that didn't mean they were consumating their marriages either.
It was a contract with mutual benefits, not a means to be able to shag the one you love without god getting testy. Why people always assume that marriage in an historical context equals immediate sexual gratification is beyond me.:sarcastic
I'd consider it a sign of good mental health that the man didn't just get up and declare,'The angel told me this!' without questioning if it was all in his head. Getting the official sandals of prophethood also doesn't mean you can't get depressed at any stage. It also doesn't say in the official handbook you should let yourself be stapled to a tree because the people that don't like you think you should be gone when you can stand up for yourself instead. It could be said that some people didn't find Jesus so satisfactory as the chosen of god largely because of his peace, love and mungbeans philosophy and the notable lack of smiting.
As to the rest, what you've essentially said is that you looked at a few religions, found one that suited what you wanted in a faith and called it truth. I'm sure there are plenty of people just hereabouts who will tell you that religion is about subjecting yourself to the will of God, you don't pick one cos it suits you. Otherwise we'd all apparently be anarchic, pillaging heathens with no morals (or something equally as tasteless). If you can pick your religion on the grounds it strikes a chord, then why would anyone elses be any less correct when chosen on that basis? There are plenty of gods who aren't really that fussed with us at all (except perhaps for the occasional extra marital activity), just because you want yours to be the great cuddly sky daddy because you can't find fulfilment any other way doesn't make you any more right than those of us who have no expectation of such.

Thx for the insight and you made some good points - yet I am wondering exactly where in my comment did I indicate it was justified for men in England to do it 100 of years ago and not justified in Muhammad's case? I mean, comeon though, you are correct that I am aserting marriages usually do equal sex, but lets look at Muhammads reasoning for marrying young/virgin girls: Sahih Al-Bukhari Vol 3 Book 38 Number 504, Sahih Al-Bukhari Volme 7 Book 62 Number 16, Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 7 Book 62 Number 17. So actually, the assertion I made about having sexual relations is more heavily supported than the opposed view of "marrying to simply enjoy each other non sexually. Also, I find it interesting that Muhummad made it a law that nobody could marry is wives after he died and he even had a revelation forbidding his wives from leaving their homes?!?! Essentially, Aisha was to remain in her home w/o a child from age 18 until she died in her 60's.

Also, I wouldn't say that I found a faith that simply suited my fancy. I think we all can agree that having faith is constantly challenging - meaning the last thing I am trying to do is insult anyone about their faith. Nevertheless, so many religions as so closely interconnected with their culture that many never look to see if their faith is the truth, this can be said for Christianity as well (my mother for example has never looked at other religions). With this being said, following Jesus (or Christianity) made the most logical sense. Could I be wrong? Of course. But everything seems to add up. For example, as I mentioned, the Old Testament contains so many prophecies about the Messiah (book of Isaiah, psalms, etc...) - so then I looked at the validity/reliability of the Bible, etc.., so it seems that clues were given. The God of the bible provided mankind with some form of evidence so we would not be taking a 100% blind leap of faith. Yet in other religions, like Islam, it seems that you have to take a completely bind leap of faith and trust that Muhammad was spoken too from Gabriel (and I applaud you from having that much faith). But it is very hard for me to believe that the creator would not articulate to his creation the reasoning/purpose in only the form of a vision to one man. Of course we all can say, "Well, I felt God's presence" but this is not what I am talking about as reasoning or purpose.

Honestly though, I hope I am not coming off as "Christianity is better than Islam" or vice versa like so many people do. All I am trying to provide is insight that I have found - and because I believe this to be the most important search/quest in life, I simply want to share.

The question I ask you (because I asked myself the same question) is, if you found out that your faith was truly wrong, would you search for the true faith? Or would you not because of how closely your faith is with your culture? Anyways, have a good one.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

The God of the bible provided mankind with some form of evidence so we would not be taking a 100% blind leap of faith. Yet in other religions, like Islam, it seems that you have to take a completely bind leap of faith and trust that Muhammad was spoken too from Gabriel (and I applaud you from having that much faith).

And what you have missed with this comment is that Allah did not reveal Islam to one man alone, but has ever been revealing it to Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, Noah, etc etc etc. You wrongly assume that Muhammad was the beginning of Islam which is not true. Muhammad was the LAST prophet, not the first one. Furthermore why would muslims have to take a blind leap of faith that you supposedly didn't take? We live in the same world you do and it serves as a proof for Allah's existance and the truth of His words, so our faith isn't anymore "blind" than yours.

The question I ask you (because I asked myself the same question) is, if you found out that your faith was truly wrong, would you search for the true faith? Or would you not because of how closely your faith is with your culture? Anyways, have a good one.

This quote also assumes something very dangerous. It assumes that by and large a muslim was born a muslim, or having been the only religion exposed to them from a cultural standpiont. That would only be true of one born muslim. It doesn't count for the millions of converts to Islam, that make up well more than half the total body of muslims. For the rest of us we tried to other religions, or had none to begin with and ended up in Islam after a careful look into the truth.

 

[England my lionheart]

I think the problem for reigions here is they are all open to interpretation,if only one of them is true ,which one is it.Most religions have more than one branch of their religion,IE christians have catholic,baptist ,evangilist etc,islam has shi'ite fundamentals etc(there may be some spelling mistakes)Judaism ,orthodox etc.Now if any were absolutely true there would only be one version that was not open to interpretaton at all.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

You did not get my point! Those verses in the koran that deals with violence... I don't expect them to discard it. It's in the blood already! It is only my opinion for them to discard it. If they don't care so what! Because it was written in the dark ages there are many passages there that are no longer applicable to our modern age. The same with the vedas. It's already a cult. But those that are still applicable today we should use it. Why not?

That is clearly not what you meant and stated in your original post.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Yes, Sir Thomas Michael put Mohammad(PBUH) in the top of the list before his brothers Jesus(PBUH) and Moses(PBUH)

Was that a positivte thing?

 

[Quoth The Raven]

[/i]

Thx for the insight and you made some good points - yet I am wondering exactly where in my comment did I indicate it was justified for men in England to do it 100 of years ago and not justified in Muhammad's case? I mean, comeon though, you are correct that I am aserting marriages usually do equal sex, but lets look at Muhammads reasoning for marrying young/virgin girls: Sahih Al-Bukhari Vol 3 Book 38 Number 504, Sahih Al-Bukhari Volme 7 Book 62 Number 16, Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 7 Book 62 Number 17. So actually, the assertion I made about having sexual relations is more heavily supported than the opposed view of "marrying to simply enjoy each other non sexually. Also, I find it interesting that Muhummad made it a law that nobody could marry is wives after he died and he even had a revelation forbidding his wives from leaving their homes?!?! Essentially, Aisha was to remain in her home w/o a child from age 18 until she died in her 60's.

Also, I wouldn't say that I found a faith that simply suited my fancy. I think we all can agree that having faith is constantly challenging - meaning the last thing I am trying to do is insult anyone about their faith. Nevertheless, so many religions as so closely interconnected with their culture that many never look to see if their faith is the truth, this can be said for Christianity as well (my mother for example has never looked at other religions). With this being said, following Jesus (or Christianity) made the most logical sense. Could I be wrong? Of course. But everything seems to add up. For example, as I mentioned, the Old Testament contains so many prophecies about the Messiah (book of Isaiah, psalms, etc...) - so then I looked at the validity/reliability of the Bible, etc.., so it seems that clues were given. The God of the bible provided mankind with some form of evidence so we would not be taking a 100% blind leap of faith. Yet in other religions, like Islam, it seems that you have to take a completely bind leap of faith and trust that Muhammad was spoken too from Gabriel (and I applaud you from having that much faith). But it is very hard for me to believe that the creator would not articulate to his creation the reasoning/purpose in only the form of a vision to one man. Of course we all can say, "Well, I felt God's presence" but this is not what I am talking about as reasoning or purpose.

Honestly though, I hope I am not coming off as "Christianity is better than Islam" or vice versa like so many people do. All I am trying to provide is insight that I have found - and because I believe this to be the most important search/quest in life, I simply want to share.

The question I ask you (because I asked myself the same question) is, if you found out that your faith was truly wrong, would you search for the true faith? Or would you not because of how closely your faith is with your culture? Anyways, have a good one.

No-one suggested anything about marrying to enjoy each other non sexually. I believe you're making the same mistake as a lot of people and looking at marriage in too modern a context. We're not talking a love match. Historically - for anyone with clout - marriage has been a bargaining tool and a means of cementing strategic alliance. This isn't about,'Whoaho, give me some of that pre pubescent virgin bride!', it's about,'Right, we're gonna sign this treaty, and to prove my good faith, you can marry my daughter. Yeah, she's only *insert ridiculous age here*, but family mate, that's what stopping you from attacking me is all about.'
At some point consummation was to be expected, but not necessarily with any immediacy, especially in the case where you're marrying a child. Odds on you weren't even going to take her home with you straight away, because who the hell wants to finish raising someone elses child?
I was raised a Presbyterian, and purely out of habit I still called myself one years after that ceased to be the case. One day I went,'Well, that's an outdated label right there and promptly discarded it. I don't feel the need to 'search for the one true faith', because I don't believe there is one. I also don't feel any void in my life that I desperately need to fill with something otherwoldly. Nor do I require some outside 'purpose' to give my life validity.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Wow, those are some LONG posts.

 

[lew0049]

And what you have missed with this comment is that Allah did not reveal Islam to one man alone, but has ever been revealing it to Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, Noah, etc etc etc. You wrongly assume that Muhammad was the beginning of Islam which is not true. Muhammad was the LAST prophet, not the first one. Furthermore why would muslims have to take a blind leap of faith that you supposedly didn't take? We live in the same world you do and it serves as a proof for Allah's existance and the truth of His words, so our faith isn't anymore "blind" than yours.




This quote also assumes something very dangerous. It assumes that by and large a muslim was born a muslim, or having been the only religion exposed to them from a cultural standpiont. That would only be true of one born muslim. It doesn't count for the millions of converts to Islam, that make up well more than half the total body of muslims. For the rest of us we tried to other religions, or had none to begin with and ended up in Islam after a careful look into the truth.

Ill respond to the top paragraph later as Im limited on time, but with regard to the second paragraph, I wasn't specifically referring to Muslims and the Islamic faith - instead every religion and culture. Obviously, the US is closely tied with Christianity, India-Hinduism, etc... but I definitely agree with what you are saying as it could be said about Christianity as well. But at the same time and I'm sure you will agree with me, but the Quran, the praise to Allah, and the rituals are very closely with many Muslim societies. And I'm not saying thats bad either (actually its good for a society to embrace faith so well).

 

[lew0049]

No-one suggested anything about marrying to enjoy each other non sexually. I believe you're making the same mistake as a lot of people and looking at marriage in too modern a context. We're not talking a love match. Historically - for anyone with clout - marriage has been a bargaining tool and a means of cementing strategic alliance. This isn't about,'Whoaho, give me some of that pre pubescent virgin bride!', it's about,'Right, we're gonna sign this treaty, and to prove my good faith, you can marry my daughter. Yeah, she's only *insert ridiculous age here*, but family mate, that's what stopping you from attacking me is all about.'
At some point consummation was to be expected, but not necessarily with any immediacy, especially in the case where you're marrying a child. Odds on you weren't even going to take her home with you straight away, because who the hell wants to finish raising someone elses child?
I was raised a Presbyterian, and purely out of habit I still called myself one years after that ceased to be the case. One day I went,'Well, that's an outdated label right there and promptly discarded it. I don't feel the need to 'search for the one true faith', because I don't believe there is one. I also don't feel any void in my life that I desperately need to fill with something otherwoldly. Nor do I require some outside 'purpose' to give my life validity.

Real quick - you're right though, the ways/traditions in the ancient world were very different than today, but I do understand that it was more mutually based. Nevertheless, when you look at the quotes from the Hadiths found in my post, the assertion I made is pretty well supported. Ill put the quotes below and respond to the rest of your message later. Thx for the reply sir

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
I was accompanying the Prophet on a journey and was riding a slow camel that was lagging behind the others… When we approached Medina, I started going (towards my house). The Prophet said, "Where are you going?" I said, "I have married a widow." He said, "Why have you not married a virgin to fondle with each other?" I said, "My father died and left daughters, so I decided to marry a widow (an experienced woman) (to look after them)." He said, "Well done." … (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 38, Number 504)
Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah:
While we were returning from a Ghazwa (Holy Battle) with the Prophet, I started driving my camel fast, as it was a lazy camel A rider came behind me and pricked my camel with a spear he had with him, and then my camel started running as fast as the best camel you may see. Behold! The rider was the Prophet himself. He said, 'What makes you in such a hurry?" I replied, I am newly married " He said, "Did you marry a virgin or a matron? I replied, "A matron." He said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you may play with her and she with you?" When we were about to enter (Medina), the Prophet said, "Wait so that you may enter (Medina) at night so that the lady of unkempt hair may comb her hair and the one whose husband has been absent may shave her pubic region. (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 16)
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
When I got married, Allah's Apostle said to me, "What type of lady have you married?" I replied, "I have married a matron." He said, "Why, don't you have a liking for the virgins AND FOR FONDLING THEM?" Jabir also said: Allah's Apostle said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?" (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 17)
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3311)
​

 

[McBell]

Real quick - you're right though, the ways/traditions in the ancient world were very different than today, but I do understand that it was more mutually based. Nevertheless, when you look at the quotes from the Hadiths found in my post, the assertion I made is pretty well supported. Ill put the quotes below and respond to the rest of your message later. Thx for the reply sir

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
I was accompanying the Prophet on a journey and was riding a slow camel that was lagging behind the others… When we approached Medina, I started going (towards my house). The Prophet said, "Where are you going?" I said, "I have married a widow." He said, "Why have you not married a virgin to fondle with each other?" I said, "My father died and left daughters, so I decided to marry a widow (an experienced woman) (to look after them)." He said, "Well done." … (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 38, Number 504)
Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah:
While we were returning from a Ghazwa (Holy Battle) with the Prophet, I started driving my camel fast, as it was a lazy camel A rider came behind me and pricked my camel with a spear he had with him, and then my camel started running as fast as the best camel you may see. Behold! The rider was the Prophet himself. He said, 'What makes you in such a hurry?" I replied, I am newly married " He said, "Did you marry a virgin or a matron? I replied, "A matron." He said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you may play with her and she with you?" When we were about to enter (Medina), the Prophet said, "Wait so that you may enter (Medina) at night so that the lady of unkempt hair may comb her hair and the one whose husband has been absent may shave her pubic region. (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 16)
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
When I got married, Allah's Apostle said to me, "What type of lady have you married?" I replied, "I have married a matron." He said, "Why, don't you have a liking for the virgins AND FOR FONDLING THEM?" Jabir also said: Allah's Apostle said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?" (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 17)
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3311)
​

You forgot to present the part were is says he had sex with her before her 'minor' years were over.

And I use the term 'forgot' rather loosely.

 

[lew0049]

You forgot to present the part were is says he had sex with her before her 'minor' years were over.

And I use the term 'forgot' rather loosely.

Thanks for attempting to undermine me, but I never said that a document states he had sex with her.
Its not as if anyone would document "I had sex with her before she hit puberity", etc... I mean comeon (hypothetical)
I simply said that based on the quotes I provided, there is some insight to his view on the matter - hence I "asserted" that he might have based on the evidence.

 

[McBell]

Thanks for attempting to undermine me, but I never said that a document states he had sex with her.
Its not as if anyone would document "I had sex with her before she hit puberity", etc... I mean comeon (hypothetical)
I simply said that based on the quotes I provided, there is some insight to his view on the matter - hence I "asserted" that he might have based on the evidence.

I see.
So to you the term 'virgin' is synonymous with 'minor'?
What you presented did not even imply that he had sex with her at all, let alone whilst she was still a minor.

They do not support your claim that Mohammad is a pedophile.
So I am honestly at a loss as to why you would even present them.

As I have already stated here on RF:

Other than anti-Islam sites, I am unable to find anything that says Mohammad had sexual relations with her during her 'minor' years.