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Verifiable evidence for creationism?

Is there any verifiable evidence for creationism?

  • Yes

    Votes: 20 19.0%
  • No

    Votes: 85 81.0%

  • Total voters
    105

McBell

Unbound
I agree with your statements. However, we are talking about two different situations -- a macro situation versus a micro one. The Discovery channel refers to a local situation which takes place in a limited amount of time. I'm assuming it was during one's lifetime, but it could be more. What's used in these situations to tell how old something organic is is a form of radiometric dating -- carbon dating or Carbon-14 dating.

Carbon-14 dating is a method for comparing the ages of organic materials such as bones or artifacts made from anything that once lived. Unlike many other radiometric dating methods, carbon dating has been calibrated for historical periods and within that range can give reliable results. There are limitations to this form of dating, as with radiometric dating methods, because it requires certain assumptions that cannot be scientifically proved. These include the starting conditions, the constancy of the rate of decay, and that no material has left or entered the sample.

If a correct reading of how old some deceased remains can be read assuming the limitations above, then it can be concluded that what occurred was within a limited amount of time and that layers occurred the way you describe.

However, in the case of a body being buried in a catastrophic event such as with Mt. St. Helens volcano, then the layer it was found would be different and have its own case. For one, it was a catastrophic event, so it happened in a short period of time. The Mt. St. Helens volcano happened within our lifetime, so we know what time period it occurred. We may have problems taking a C14-reading because volcanoes would add excess C-14. If one looks at the kind of stratification or layers of molten lava and rock occurred, then we get a different picture.

The Mt. St. Helens volcano is regarded by people today as the most significant geologic event of the 20th century because of its extraordinary documentation and scientific study. It may not be the largest natural explosion during the 1900s, but we learned much from it.

To cut to chase and what we're talking about, it shows rapid formation of stratification, rapid erosion and rapid formation of fossil deposits, rapid formation of peat layer and catastrophism.

"Rapid Formation of Stratification
deposits-mudflow-erosion.jpg

Figure 2. Deposits exposed by mudflow erosion on the North Fork of the Toutle River. The laminated and bedded pyroclastic flow deposit of June 12, 1980, is 25 feet thick in the middle of the cliff. That three-hour deposit is underlain by the pyroclastic flow deposit of May 18, 1980, and overlain by the mudflow deposit of March 19, 1982. (Photo by Steven A. Austin)

Up to 600 feet thickness of new strata have formed since 1980 at Mount St. Helens. These deposits accumulated from primary air blast, landslide, water wave on Spirit lake, pyroclastic flows, mudflows, air fall, and stream water...

Figure 2 shows 25 feet of the stratified deposit accumulated within three hours during the evening of June 12, 1980. It was deposited from pyroclastic flows generated by collapse of the eruption plume of debris over the volcano. The strata are very extensive and even contain thin laminae and crossbedding. Within the pyroclastic flow deposits are very thin laminae. It staggers the mind to think how the finest stratification has formed in an event of the violence of a hurricane. Coarse and fine sediment were separated into distinct strata by the catastrophic flow process from a slurry moving at freeway speed. Conventionally, sedimentary laminae and beds are assumed to represent longer seasonal variations—or annual changes—as the layers accumulated very slowly. That is the typical uniformitarian interpretation. Furthermore, our natural way of thinking about catastrophic sedimentary process is that it homogenizes materials depositing coarse and fine together without obvious stratification. Mount St. Helens teaches us that stratification does form very rapidly by flow processes."

"Rapid Erosion
What is exceptional at Mount St. Helens is the variety of new erosion features and their concentration within a limited and intensely studied area.
If we reason from our everyday experience concerning the way rivers and creeks erode, we might assume that great time periods are needed to form deep canyons. At Mount St. Helens, however, very rapid erosion has occurred since the 1980 eruptions. These erosion features challenge our way of thinking about how landscapes form. What is exceptional at Mount St. Helens is the variety of new erosion features and their concentration within a limited and intensely studied area."

"Rapid Formation of Fossil Deposits
One million logs floated on Spirit Lake on the late afternoon of May 18, 1980, after they were uprooted and washed into the basin by the 860-foot-high water waves. Careful observation of the floating conifer logs in the lake indicates that such logs show a strong tendency to float upright, best seen from the eastern shore of the lake (see “Logs” in figure 1). Many upright deposited logs possess roots attached to the log, but many have no root ball, and those without roots also show strong tendency to float upright. It appears that the root end of these logs is denser wood and perhaps floods with water more easily, allowing the root ends to sink before the top of the log. All six of the common conifer species were observed to float in an upright position.

Hundreds of upright, fully submerged logs were located by sidescan sonar, and scuba divers verified that they were indeed trunks of trees that the sonar detected. It was estimated that 20,000 upright stumps existed on the floor of the lake in August 1985. It would appear that about ten percent of the deposited logs were in an upright position. If Spirit Lake were drained, the bottom would look like a forest of trees. These, however, did not grow where they are now, but have been replanted"

"Rapid Formation of Peat Layer
The enormous log mat floating on Spirit Lake has lost its bark and branches by the abrasive action of wind and waves. Scuba investigations of the lake bottom showed that water-saturated sheets of conifer bark are especially abundant intermingled with volcanic sediment added from the lake shore, forming a layer of peat many inches thick. The peat shows coarse texture. The primary component is sheets of tree bark, which comprise about 25 percent, by volume, of the peat. Scuba divers recovered sheets of tree bark having lengths of greater than eight feet from the peat bed. Together with broken branch and root material, bark sheets impart the peat’s noteworthy coarse texture and dominantly layered appearance.

The “Spirit Lake peat” contrasts strongly with peats that have accumulated in swamps. Typical swamp peats are very finely macerated by organic degradation processes. They are “coffee grounds to mashed potatoes” in general texture. Furthermore, swamp peats possess a homogeneous appearance because of the intense penetration of roots which dominate swamps. Root material is the dominant coarse component of modern swamp peats while bark sheets are extremely rare"

...

"Conclusion
Mount St. Helens provides a rare opportunity to study transient geologic processes which, produced within a few months, changes what geologists might otherwise assume required many thousands of years. The volcano challenges our way of thinking about how the earth works, how it changes, and the time scale attached. These processes and their effects allow Mount St. Helens to serve as a miniature laboratory for catastrophism.

Mount St. Helens “speaks” directly to issues of our day. Catastrophism is documented as a viable theory of geologic change and may have far-reaching implications on other scientific disciplines and philosophical inquiries. Many scientists recognize that Darwin’s theory (which assumed slow evolutionary change) may be in error. Darwin built his theory of the evolution of living things on the notion that earth has slowly evolved. With catastrophism, we have tools to interpret the stratigraphic record including the geologic evidence of the Genesis Flood. Mount St. Helens “speaks” directly to issues of our day."

Next, Mt. St. Helens shows that stratification on the macro level occurs as with the experiment I posted a youtube on. The layers occur in a top down fashion where the top or younger levels to the bottom and the older levels end up on top. The reverse of what the evolution geologists claim.

"Sedimentation at Mt. St. Helens
On June 12, 1980 a 25 foot (7.6 m) thick stratified pyroclastic layer accumulated within a few hours below the Mt St Helens volcano (Washington, USA) as a result of pyroclastic flow deposits amassed from ground-hugging, fluidised, turbulent slurries of volcanic debris which moved at high velocities off the flank of the volcano when an eruption plume collapsed (see Figure 2). Close examination of this layer revealed that it consisted of thin laminae of fine and coarse pumice ash, usually alternating, and sometimes cross-bedded. That such a laminated deposit could form catastrophically has been confirmed by Berthault’s sedimentation experiments and applied to a creationist understanding of the Flood-deposition of thinly laminated shale strata of the Grand Canyon sequence."
112cliff.jpg


Figure 2: Fine layering was produced within hours at Mt St Helens on June 12, 1980 by hurricane velocity surging flows from the crater of the volcano. The 25-foot thick (7.6 m), June 12 deposit is exposed in the middle of the cliff. It is overlain by the massive, but thinner, March 19,1982 mudflow deposit, and is underlain by the air-fall debris from the last hours of the May 18, 1980, nine-hour eruption.

Sorry, this was long, but the experiments and actual evidence from Mt. St. Helens backs up the creation position versus that of evolutionist. Younger skeletons and remains can end up in the bottom and the older ones end up on top. Also, the trees are scattered going through the different layers as we witness from examining other stratified rock layers.

Polystrate fossils are fossils which occupy or span through more than one strata of rock. They are usually trees, and whole polystrate fossil forests have been found in various places. Rarely, they are fossilized bones. They are used by young Earth creationists as evidence against the uniformitarian timescale.
You forgot to post a link to where you copy/pasted this from
 

Sapiens

Polymathematician
You forgot to post a link to where you copy/pasted this from
Gee ... surprise, surprise ... Answers in Genesis: https://answersingenesis.org/geolog...tation-experiments-nature-finally-catches-up/

Originally published in Journal of Creation 11, no 2 (August 1997): 125-126.

Authored by that buffoon, poser, and all around idiot, Dr. Andrew Snelling, who is the first author on all of 1 almost scientific publication in his career (back in 1984) that is a "methods paper." not a real journal article or even real science: Snelling, A.A. (1984). "A soil geochemistry orientation survey for uranium at Koongarra, Northern Territory". In Davy, R.; Mazzucchelli, R.H. Geochemical exploration in arid and deeply weathered terrains. 22. Journal of Geochemical Exploration. pp. 83–99.
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
Gee ... surprise, surprise ... Answers in Genesis: https://answersingenesis.org/geolog...tation-experiments-nature-finally-catches-up/

Originally published in Journal of Creation 11, no 2 (August 1997): 125-126.

Authored by that buffoon, poser, and all around idiot, Dr. Andrew Snelling, who is the first author on all of 1 almost scientific publication in his career (back in 1984) that is a "methods paper." not a real journal article or even real science: Snelling, A.A. (1984). "A soil geochemistry orientation survey for uranium at Koongarra, Northern Territory". In Davy, R.; Mazzucchelli, R.H. Geochemical exploration in arid and deeply weathered terrains. 22. Journal of Geochemical Exploration. pp. 83–99.

Why is Dr. Andrew Snelling, a creation scientist, "an all around idiot" when the guy who is wrong is you? You just exposed yourself Sapiens ha ha.

As I stated, the atheist scientists will not peer-review Biblical based views. Thus, creation scientists have to peer-review their own work. Nature and Science publications will not print their work and they clearly avoid giving credit to creation scientists when they usurp their theories. It wasn't always like this prior to the 1800s, but the atheists gained control during the 1800s with uniformitarianism. Even his teacher, William Buckland, was fooled into believing the millions of years stratigraphy theory of Charles Lyell's (an attorney, geologist and mentor to Charles Darwin) upon stratification.

Today, they have eliminated creation science, which is science, because of the supernatural. Yet, the current scientists are free to speculate on dark matter, dark energy, singularity and black holes, universe from nothing, multiverses, multiple dimensions, aliens and what not from pure speculation. All of today's cosmology is philosophy needed to base the Theory of Evolution on. The ancient cosmology based on theology was to "place" the firmament (sky (sun, moon, planets, and stars) and heavens (living place of God and angels)). Then there was the realm of earth below, what the first chapter of Genesis calls “the dry land.” Finally, below the earth was the dark realm of the dead, which was called Sheol by the Hebrews and Hades by the Greeks. Psalms 115:16-18 puts it succinctly: “The heavens are Yahweh’s heavens, but the earth he has given to the sons of men. The dead do not praise Yahweh, nor do any that go down into silence. But we (the living) will bless Yahweh from this time forth and for evermore.”

The real idiot is Charles Lyell who is part of the atheist dead now. Can you hear his voice screaming at the top of his lungs in tortured anguish? He took Bishop Nicolas Steno's observation of rock layers or stratigraphy and added the millions of years with his uniformitarism. All of it not true as explained in my last post.
 
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jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
Yet, the current scientists are free to speculate on dark matter, dark energy, singularity and black holes, universe from nothing, multiverses, multiple dimensions, aliens and what not from pure speculation
These all have at least some modicum of data supporting them. Come up with a plausible reason to assume the existence of a divine supreme being who lives outside the bounds of space-time and you'll have an argument. Give us a measurement which could begin to define God, and then your Creation Scientists can be taken seriously.

Here's a secondary challenge - name me a Creation Scientist who doesn't base his ideas on the Biblical god or information found in Genesis.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Today, they have eliminated creation science, which is science, because of the supernatural.
That because there are no such things as "Creation Science"?

Creationism is nothing more than a myth, most often based on the bible's Genesis. For instance, creating a fully-grown adult man from dust, and a fully-grown woman from man's rib, and talking serpent, are examples of not science.

Man capable of living 900+ years is also more myth.

Global flood, with only few people and pair of male and female animals, not only surviving the flood, but repopulating the Earth, is also another myth. How do you animals,like the slow-moving koalas and wombats to Australia, survive the thousands of kilometres long treks from Mount Ararat plus some sea journey, without being killed by predators?

Egypt and Uruk not existing until after the flood, more myths. Egypt and Uruk are historical and archaeological examples that there were estimates date of the global flood during the Bronze Age.

People speaking only one language, then they all began speaking different languages in a matter of a single day, is another preposterous myth. Egypt for example, have hieroglyphs and hieratic as written language that started about 3050 BCE, around the time when the Bronze Age started in the Middle East. If there was a flood had happened as stated, then the writing system should have changed, because different people would have lived in the land called Egypt; there are clearly no evidences. Just as the art style haven't change and they continued to built pyramids for kings (and queens) throughout the old kingdom period, demonstrably showed that the flood is highly exaggerated, and didn't happened as stated.
 

McBell

Unbound
I'm curious Mestemia. You wouldn't happen to be a smoker are you? You probably knew the tobacco leaf was a mutation, but since 2008 it has been a genetically modified mutation.
Ah, back to showing off your dishonesty.

You know, the more you reveal of your god, the less I want to do with it.

You are so much more successful at turning people away from god that Dawkins and Hitchens combined.
 

Sapiens

Polymathematician
Why is Dr. Andrew Snelling, a creation scientist, "an all around idiot" when the guy who is wrong is you? You just exposed yourself Sapiens ha ha.
I have over 60 publications in legitimate journals, he has none. If you insist on making common cause with their ilk, that's your choice.
As I stated, the atheist scientists will not peer-review Biblical based views.
There is no need to waste one's time since (as we have seen in many threads) all that they are capable of is complaining about settled science, they have no defensible claims themselves to advance.
Thus, creation scientists have to peer-review their own work.
Now ... there's an oxymoron.
Nature and Science publications will not print their work and they clearly avoid giving credit to creation scientists when they usurp their theories.
Not "usurp" rather "falsify."
It wasn't always like this prior to the 1800s, but the atheists gained control during the 1800s with uniformitarianism.
About the same time they stopped bleeding people who were sick.
Even his teacher, William Buckland, was fooled into believing the millions of years stratigraphy theory of Charles Lyell's (an attorney, geologist and mentor to Charles Darwin) upon stratification.

Today, they have eliminated creation science, which is science, because of the supernatural.
No, creation "science" has been eliminated because it is demonstrable nonsense.
 
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james bond

Well-Known Member
These all have at least some modicum of data supporting them. Come up with a plausible reason to assume the existence of a divine supreme being who lives outside the bounds of space-time and you'll have an argument. Give us a measurement which could begin to define God, and then your Creation Scientists can be taken seriously.

Here's a secondary challenge - name me a Creation Scientist who doesn't base his ideas on the Biblical god or information found in Genesis.

Ha ha.

SERIOUS IGNORANCE ALERT! The Bible is the biggest Non-Fiction selling book of all time and is listed in the Guinness Book of World Records. Not only that, Christians invented science.

Georges Lemaitre.

Are you an atheist or something?
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
That because there are no such things as "Creation Science"?

Creationism is nothing more than a myth, most often based on the bible's Genesis. For instance, creating a fully-grown adult man from dust, and a fully-grown woman from man's rib, and talking serpent, are examples of not science.

Man capable of living 900+ years is also more myth.

Global flood, with only few people and pair of male and female animals, not only surviving the flood, but repopulating the Earth, is also another myth. How do you animals,like the slow-moving koalas and wombats to Australia, survive the thousands of kilometres long treks from Mount Ararat plus some sea journey, without being killed by predators?

Egypt and Uruk not existing until after the flood, more myths. Egypt and Uruk are historical and archaeological examples that there were estimates date of the global flood during the Bronze Age.

People speaking only one language, then they all began speaking different languages in a matter of a single day, is another preposterous myth. Egypt for example, have hieroglyphs and hieratic as written language that started about 3050 BCE, around the time when the Bronze Age started in the Middle East. If there was a flood had happened as stated, then the writing system should have changed, because different people would have lived in the land called Egypt; there are clearly no evidences. Just as the art style haven't change and they continued to built pyramids for kings (and queens) throughout the old kingdom period, demonstrably showed that the flood is highly exaggerated, and didn't happened as stated.

I couldn't get past your first line because you're so wrong ha ha.

There is not such thing as Evolution Science. It's mystery poop.
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
Ah, back to showing off your dishonesty.

You know, the more you reveal of your god, the less I want to do with it.

You are so much more successful at turning people away from god that Dawkins and Hitchens combined.

Answer my question. Are you a smoker? Use a vape? I can see how you could worship vaping. Look at my custom vape and its Mutation X V2 RDA.

Mutation-X-V2.jpg


Some people will take their mutation straight with no filters, but maybe you want all the flavor, but less nic mutations down the road.
 

Zosimus

Active Member
Sorry but where have you provide evidences for your claims?

You have provided zero evidences for 2.5 km global flood.
You have provided no evidences for the earth being a perfect sphere.
And where are the evidences that God has sneezed the universe into existence.

You are the one to talk about self-refuting argument.

No, zosimus.

You expect me to find evidences for there being no global flood, while you are the one who made the positive claim there is one.

Can you provide evidences for 2.5 km global flood or not? Or is it simply you making idle speculation? Can you even provide scientific papers that say where and when this global flood of yours had occurred?

Make a stupid claim, then you are the one who is supposed to provide the evidences.
Your post is evidence for the fact that you cannot read.

I never said that a global flood was impossible.
I never said the Earth was a perfect sphere.
I never said God sneezed the universe into existence.

What I said was that all of the things you claimed were impossible are, in fact, possible.

Your claims that these things are impossible are just idle speculation.
 

Zosimus

Active Member
All of this is a far cry from just changing one's diet and doing nothing else when one has cancer. Oh, he injects and drinks peroxide as well. And prays.

Oh and his tumour has continued to grow, but he is in denial and will tell you that it's actually shrinking. Funny how he goes to a doctor when he needs an MRI but simultaneously thinks that doctors are trying to kill us all so seeks "treatment" from a naturopath who lies to him. There's nothing scientific about that. As I'm continuously asking him, where are the human trials to prove the efficacy of these "treatments" he is taking?
If you have trouble with the way he is living his life, then take that up with him not with me.
 

McBell

Unbound
Answer my question. Are you a smoker? Use a vape? I can see how you could worship vaping. Look at my custom vape and its Mutation X V2 RDA.

Mutation-X-V2.jpg


Some people will take their mutation straight with no filters, but maybe you want all the flavor, but less nic mutations down the road.
you just keep piling it deeper and deeper.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
SERIOUS IGNORANCE ALERT! The Bible is the biggest Non-Fiction selling book of all time and is listed in the Guinness Book of World Records. Not only that, Christians invented science.

Georges Lemaitre.

Are you an atheist or something?
Now, looks who's talking about ignorance.

Nonfiction doesn't mean everything written are true, or science or historical. You don't know what you are talking about.

Mythology falls under the nonfiction department, not fiction. Classical literature and medieval literature also fall under the category of nonfiction.

Go to your local library, JB. Look at Homer's Iliad and Odyssey, or Hesiod's Theogony, or Sophocles' Oedipus Rex, or Euripides' Medea, or the Icelandic Snorri's Prose Edda, or Thomas Malory's Death of King Arthur, all of them classified as mythological, and yet come under the nonfiction area of the library.

English literature, French literature, etc, all can be found in the nonfiction area.

Once again, you have shot yourself in the foot, accusing another person of ignorance, when you really should look at your reflection.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Your post is evidence for the fact that you cannot read.

I never said that a global flood was impossible.
I never said the Earth was a perfect sphere.
I never said God sneezed the universe into existence.

What I said was that all of the things you claimed were impossible are, in fact, possible.

Your claims that these things are impossible are just idle speculation.

Good grief. You are still on this.

This thread is about "Verifiable evidences for creationism". Do you remember, or have you lost sight of the topic of this thread?

No one on the creationist side have show evidences that the Creation and Flood did happen the way it say in the bible. My skepticism were regarding to what the Genesis narrated, so I was comparing what did or didn't happen in reality. My replies were in regards to do Genesis, and how each one didn't happen historically or scientifically. The impossibility are all in regards to if there is science in Genesis (and to JOB).

You, on the other hand, are just playing the "what if" games of speculation and ignoring my references to Genesis and science. The "what if" speculation is not science and it is also not history.

You were the one who brought in trivial, like that God might have sneeze the universe into existence. You are the one who brought that global flood happened, but not where and when it happen.

I tired of you badgering me over issues when you ignore the context of replies with your strawman and silly excuses.
 

Zosimus

Active Member
Whatever. But I like to think that an obvious defeater of relativity would be all over the place. Some relatively recent experiments involving neutrinos seemed, prima facie, to defeat relativity. It was even on the front page of all normal newspapers, before we realized it was an experimental error. So, why do I not see any trace of your claim that gravitational influence travels at a speed higher than light's? Another case of scientific conspiracy that was sleeping during that neutrinos experiment (for some reason)?
You err because you think this came out yesterday. Do you think I was walking along and I suddenly realized that Einstein was wrong? Of course not. I never gave Einstein a second thought much less the speed of gravity. The refutation was published in Physics Letter A in 1998.

True. On the Internet you can find everything, By posting google links you could probably make a case for a flat earth, that crystals absorb negative karma, that homepathy is more than expensive placebo, that QM entails superluminal communication or a cosmic consciousness or other things of the sort. I hope you indulge me if I mark those things as crack pottery, by default.
Physics Letter A is a peer reviewed scientific journal. So all of your speculation is irrelevant.

But if you want to flter out things that might be important, I suggest you get some knowledge of the subject. The book Gravitation by Wheeler and co, is a nice introduction in the subject.
So when I mention that a peer-reviewed paper, published in 1998, casts doubt on what is currently thought about gravitation, you refer me to a book published in 1973? Seriously?!

Decisions make sense when you have a set of alternatives to choose from. So, how do you know that the alternative "buggers feed on glucose" is better than "buggers are little evil spirits that can be eliminated with an exorcism", for instance? Has science nothing to do with it?
You err because you think that the point of decisions is to make the correct one and because you define correct in a bass ackwards kind of way. Tell me, if you are driving your car late at night and you come upon a stop sign, do you figure that you've never seen a police officer at that intersection and run the stop sign or do you stop even though there is no cross traffic?

Marketing?
Once again, it never ceases to amaze me that the biggest science apologists throw science out the window as soon as it comes up with conclusions that violate their preconceived notions.

I always wondered whether throwing a coin, when faced with a difficult decision, has really a lower rate of success than decisions taken by the average over payed executive by other means.
Funny. When I heard that 80 percent of non-randomized published research findings are later convincingly refuted, I wondered whether you might be better off just flipping a coin than relying on non-randomized published research.

Yes, and those are ok. I have nothing aganst multiple choices in case of multiple inferences we can draw from a set of premises, for instance. I also ask often questions with multiple choices, usually two (yes/no). But if you ask me things like for which country Napoleon fought, then I think that multiple choices are dangerous, probably a mix would be better.
You err because you do not understand the point of the problem. Take, for example, the circus tent puzzle from BG2.

Q: A princess is as old as the prince will be when the princess is twice as old as the prince was when the princess' age was half the sum of their present age.

Someone posted a solution involving lots of algebra, and I'm sure the person is proud of his/her algebra skills. I, however, solved the problem instantly by realizing that the princess must be older than the prince and a quick scan of the answer choices let me eliminate several possibilities. I never even picked up a pencil. It's a different mindset, you see. If you instantly see the solution, then you're a good candidate for a business school. If you can crunch the numbers, then you'd be better off as an accountant. Some people don't know the answer and can't calculate it, but they could still get the answer because they could write a computer program that would figure it out for them. That's great—but it means the person isn't apt for business school. He or she should become a computer programmer.

Which does not tell you much about the skills of the candidate, if the method to get the answers right is important to assess it.
Well, actually it does because you give someone a math problem that requires 2 minutes to calculate and 1 minute to solve it. People who need to do the calculations are going to run out of time before they finish the test.
 

Zosimus

Active Member
What I find ironic is that you pointed out my spelling error in your post while failing to spell correctly the name of your own President in the same post.

If the word "ironic" is not applicable, feel free to replace it with the proper one. The other alternatives I have in mind are not as charitable.

Ciao

- viole
My own president? My president is Pedro Pablo Kuczynski. What planet are you from?
 
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