Gnostic Seeker
Spiritual
To the OP- Islam was at times spread by the sword, but it was largely after Muhammad's time, so I couldn't say how in keeping with him it was.
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Was Islam spread by the sword?
- Thread starter ZooGirl02
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Sees
Dragonslayer
Any thoughts on this from our Muslim bros? Is it one of those things were it gets ignored or hadith concerning it isn't considered good, valid, useful, true?
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Quran/Islam/Muhammad flourish most in peace as Quran is reason oriented and its teachings are simple and rational.
Why should Quran/Islam/Muhammad use force?
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Was Islam spread by the sword?
No.
For example:
Spread of Islam in Circassians: [10]
History
Circassia was a small independent nation on the northeastern shore of the Black Sea. For no reason other than ethnic hatred, over the course of hundreds of raids the Russians drove the Circassians from their homeland and deported them to the Ottoman Empire. At least 600,000 people lost their lives to massacre, starvation, and the elements while hundreds of thousands more were forced to leave their homeland. By 1864, three-fourths of the population was annihilated, and the Circassians had become one of the first stateless peoples in modern history.
— Walter Richmond, The Circassian Genocide [48]
Circassian diaspora
Adyghe have lived outside the Caucasus region since the Middle Ages. They were particularly well represented in the Mamluks of Turkey and Egypt. In fact, the Burji dynasty which ruled Egypt from 1382 to 1517 was founded by Adyghe Mamluks.
Much of Adyghe culture was disrupted after the conquest of their homeland by Russia in 1864. The Circassian people were subjected to ethnic cleansing and mass exile to the Ottoman Empire.
The total number of Circassians worldwide is estimated at 6 million.
Sochi Olympics controversy[edit]
Main article: Concerns and controversies at the 2014 Winter Olympics
The 2014 Winter Olympics facilities in Sochi (once the Circassian capital)[2] were built in areas that are claimed to contain mass graves of Circassians who were killed during genocide by Russia in military campaigns lasting from 1860 to 1864.[87]
Adyghe organizations in Russia and the Adyghe diaspora around the world have requested that the construction at the site would stop and that the Olympic gameswould not be held at the site of the Adyghe genocide to prevent the desecration of the Adyghe graves.[citation needed] According to Iyad Youghar, who heads the lobby group International Circassian Council: "We want the athletes to know that if they compete here they will be skiing on the bones of our relatives."[2] The year 2014 also marked the 150th anniversary of the Circassian Genocide which angered the Circassians around the world. Many protests were held all over the world to stop the Sochi Olympics but were not successful.
In popular culture[edit]
Over the years, Adyghes have been featured in various popular books and films:
• The 1962 Academy Award winning British film Lawrence of Arabia included a scene in which the British title character (Peter O'Toole) is captured by Turkish officers at the city of Daraa. His blue eyes and fair skin are remarked, leading to the question "Are you Circassian?", to which he replies "Yes, effendi".[88]
• In the 1840 Russian novel A Hero of Our Time the narrator tells the story of a beautiful Adyghe princess named "Bela", whom a character abducts from her family.
• In Memoirs of an Arabian Princess from Zanzibar the author — who was the Princess of Zanzibar and was half Circassian and half Arab — narrates about the many Circassian Secondary Wives of the Sultan of Zanzibar.
• In a 2005 episode of the BBC drama Spooks lead character Adam Carter pretends to be a Circassian from Aleppo in order to infiltrate a people-smuggling route.
• The 2010 Jordanian film Cherkess, which takes place in 1900, depicts a unique encounter between the local Bedouin tribes and the Adyghe immigrants, in the region known today as Jordan, during the period in which this region was under Ottoman rule.[89]
• Sarema is the Circassian heroine and title character in the 1897 opera of that name by the Austrian composer Alexander Zemlinsky (1871–1942).
• In Nikos Kazantzakis' novel Captain Michalis, one of the most prominent female characters is Eminé, a Circassian woman of stunning beauty.
Circassians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Circassians.
Regards
No.
For example:
Spread of Islam in Circassians: [10]
History
Circassia was a small independent nation on the northeastern shore of the Black Sea. For no reason other than ethnic hatred, over the course of hundreds of raids the Russians drove the Circassians from their homeland and deported them to the Ottoman Empire. At least 600,000 people lost their lives to massacre, starvation, and the elements while hundreds of thousands more were forced to leave their homeland. By 1864, three-fourths of the population was annihilated, and the Circassians had become one of the first stateless peoples in modern history.
— Walter Richmond, The Circassian Genocide [48]
Circassian diaspora
Adyghe have lived outside the Caucasus region since the Middle Ages. They were particularly well represented in the Mamluks of Turkey and Egypt. In fact, the Burji dynasty which ruled Egypt from 1382 to 1517 was founded by Adyghe Mamluks.
Much of Adyghe culture was disrupted after the conquest of their homeland by Russia in 1864. The Circassian people were subjected to ethnic cleansing and mass exile to the Ottoman Empire.
The total number of Circassians worldwide is estimated at 6 million.
Sochi Olympics controversy[edit]
Main article: Concerns and controversies at the 2014 Winter Olympics
The 2014 Winter Olympics facilities in Sochi (once the Circassian capital)[2] were built in areas that are claimed to contain mass graves of Circassians who were killed during genocide by Russia in military campaigns lasting from 1860 to 1864.[87]
Adyghe organizations in Russia and the Adyghe diaspora around the world have requested that the construction at the site would stop and that the Olympic gameswould not be held at the site of the Adyghe genocide to prevent the desecration of the Adyghe graves.[citation needed] According to Iyad Youghar, who heads the lobby group International Circassian Council: "We want the athletes to know that if they compete here they will be skiing on the bones of our relatives."[2] The year 2014 also marked the 150th anniversary of the Circassian Genocide which angered the Circassians around the world. Many protests were held all over the world to stop the Sochi Olympics but were not successful.
In popular culture[edit]
Over the years, Adyghes have been featured in various popular books and films:
• The 1962 Academy Award winning British film Lawrence of Arabia included a scene in which the British title character (Peter O'Toole) is captured by Turkish officers at the city of Daraa. His blue eyes and fair skin are remarked, leading to the question "Are you Circassian?", to which he replies "Yes, effendi".[88]
• In the 1840 Russian novel A Hero of Our Time the narrator tells the story of a beautiful Adyghe princess named "Bela", whom a character abducts from her family.
• In Memoirs of an Arabian Princess from Zanzibar the author — who was the Princess of Zanzibar and was half Circassian and half Arab — narrates about the many Circassian Secondary Wives of the Sultan of Zanzibar.
• In a 2005 episode of the BBC drama Spooks lead character Adam Carter pretends to be a Circassian from Aleppo in order to infiltrate a people-smuggling route.
• The 2010 Jordanian film Cherkess, which takes place in 1900, depicts a unique encounter between the local Bedouin tribes and the Adyghe immigrants, in the region known today as Jordan, during the period in which this region was under Ottoman rule.[89]
• Sarema is the Circassian heroine and title character in the 1897 opera of that name by the Austrian composer Alexander Zemlinsky (1871–1942).
• In Nikos Kazantzakis' novel Captain Michalis, one of the most prominent female characters is Eminé, a Circassian woman of stunning beauty.
Circassians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Circassians.
Regards
jonathan180iq
Well-Known Member
4:34
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.
Surat An-Nisa' [4:34] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????
Very simple and rational :slap:
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Sees
Dragonslayer
Are any of your hundreds of Wikipedia quotes and citations mentioned in the Qur'an?
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
You are wrong here also.
But it will be off the topic to discuss it here in this thread.
Won't it? Please
Regards
jonathan180iq
Well-Known Member
But it came from the Holy Quran...
jonathan180iq
Well-Known Member
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Strike them means boycott them,same thing in Arabic the word means to beat and to boycott so it was misunderstood that the word meant to be beat them and not boycott them and it is already explained by forsake then in bed and that is what meant by the word strike.
There are three steps mentioned to deal with a wife's arrogance.
1. First advise them
2. Then forsake them in bed
3. Finally strike them.
jonathan180iq
Well-Known Member
47:4
So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike [their] necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either [confer] favor afterwards or ransom [them] until the war lays down its burdens. That [is the command]. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them [Himself], but [He ordered armed struggle] to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds.
Interesting...
Isn't that the same word?
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Yes exactly, the 3rd is to leave them completely as kind of objection and then the last choice will be the divorce if woman isn't interested to live with her husband.
The word strike has 2 meanings in Arbic, one means to beat and the other means to boycott
jonathan180iq
Well-Known Member
As if walking out on a woman for not acting like your daughter is much better than slapping them for burning your toast...
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
47:4
So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike [their] necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either [confer] favor afterwards or ransom [them] until the war lays down its burdens. That [is the command]. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them [Himself], but [He ordered armed struggle] to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds.
Interesting...
Isn't that the same word?
Didn't i say the word has 2 meanings.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Was Islam spread by the sword?
No.
For example:
Spread of Islam in Kyrgyzstan:
The vast majority of people in Kyrgyzstan are Muslims, as 86.3% of the country's population are followers of Islam.[1] Muslims in Kyrgyzstan are generally of the Sunni branch, which entered the region during the 8th century,[2] though there are some Ahmadi Muslims.[3]
Most of Kyrgyz Muslims practice their religion in a specific way influenced by shamanic tribal customs. There has been a revival of Islamic practices since independence in Kyrgyzstan. For the most part religious leaders deal only with issues of religion and do not reach out to communities, but rather offer services to those who come to the mosque. There are regional differences, with the southern part of the country being more religious.,[4] and the northern part being more secular.
Kyrgyzstan remained a secular state after the fall of communism, which had only superficial influence on religious practice when Kyrgyzstan was a Soviet republic, despite the policy of state atheism. Most of the Russian population of Kyrgyzstan is atheist or Russian Orthodox. The Uzbeks, who make up 12.9 percent of the population, are generally Sunni Muslims.
The share of the Muslim population is increasing in Kyrgyzstan while the non-Muslim populations are decreasing. For example, Russians, Ukrainians, and Germans made-up 31.9 percent of Kyrgyzstzan’s population in 1979, and in 1999 were only 13.9 percent of the population.
The introduction of Islam
Islam was introduced to the Kyrgyz tribes between the eight and twelfth centuries. More recent exposure to Islam occurred in the seventeenth century, when the Jungars drove the Kyrgyz of the Tian Shan region into the Fergana Valley, whose population was totally Islamic. However, as the danger from the Jungars subsided, a few elements of the Kyrgyz population returned to some of their tribal customs.
When the Quqon Khanateadvanced into northern Kyrgyzistan in the eighteenth century, various northern Kyrgyz tribes[2] remained aloof from the official Islamic practices of that regime. By the end of the nineteenth century, however, the entire Kyrgyz population, including the tribes in the north, had converted to Sunni Islam. Each of the Muslim ethnic groups has a deep and long tradition of customary law. The ethnic Kyrgyz have also preserved pre-Islamic traditions and customs.
Tribal influence
Alongside Islam, some Kyrgyz practice Tengriism, the recognition of spiritual kinship with a particular type of animal and reverence for the Spirits of nature, ancestors, the earth and sky. Under this belief system, which predates their contact with Islam, Kyrgyz tribes traditionally adopted reindeer, camels, snakes, owls, and bears as objects of worship. The sky, earth, sun, moon, and stars also play an important religious role. The strong dependence of the nomads on the forces of nature reinforced such connections and fostered belief in shamanism. Traces of such beliefs remain in the religious practice of many of today's Kyrgyz residing in the north.
Knowledge of and interest in Islam is said to be much stronger in the south, especially around Osh, than further north. Religious practice in the north is more mixed with animism and shamanist practices, giving worship there a resemblance toSiberian religious practice.
Islam in Kyrgyzstan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Kyrgyzstan.
Regards
No.
For example:
Spread of Islam in Kyrgyzstan:
The vast majority of people in Kyrgyzstan are Muslims, as 86.3% of the country's population are followers of Islam.[1] Muslims in Kyrgyzstan are generally of the Sunni branch, which entered the region during the 8th century,[2] though there are some Ahmadi Muslims.[3]
Most of Kyrgyz Muslims practice their religion in a specific way influenced by shamanic tribal customs. There has been a revival of Islamic practices since independence in Kyrgyzstan. For the most part religious leaders deal only with issues of religion and do not reach out to communities, but rather offer services to those who come to the mosque. There are regional differences, with the southern part of the country being more religious.,[4] and the northern part being more secular.
Kyrgyzstan remained a secular state after the fall of communism, which had only superficial influence on religious practice when Kyrgyzstan was a Soviet republic, despite the policy of state atheism. Most of the Russian population of Kyrgyzstan is atheist or Russian Orthodox. The Uzbeks, who make up 12.9 percent of the population, are generally Sunni Muslims.
The share of the Muslim population is increasing in Kyrgyzstan while the non-Muslim populations are decreasing. For example, Russians, Ukrainians, and Germans made-up 31.9 percent of Kyrgyzstzan’s population in 1979, and in 1999 were only 13.9 percent of the population.
The introduction of Islam
Islam was introduced to the Kyrgyz tribes between the eight and twelfth centuries. More recent exposure to Islam occurred in the seventeenth century, when the Jungars drove the Kyrgyz of the Tian Shan region into the Fergana Valley, whose population was totally Islamic. However, as the danger from the Jungars subsided, a few elements of the Kyrgyz population returned to some of their tribal customs.
When the Quqon Khanateadvanced into northern Kyrgyzistan in the eighteenth century, various northern Kyrgyz tribes[2] remained aloof from the official Islamic practices of that regime. By the end of the nineteenth century, however, the entire Kyrgyz population, including the tribes in the north, had converted to Sunni Islam. Each of the Muslim ethnic groups has a deep and long tradition of customary law. The ethnic Kyrgyz have also preserved pre-Islamic traditions and customs.
Tribal influence
Alongside Islam, some Kyrgyz practice Tengriism, the recognition of spiritual kinship with a particular type of animal and reverence for the Spirits of nature, ancestors, the earth and sky. Under this belief system, which predates their contact with Islam, Kyrgyz tribes traditionally adopted reindeer, camels, snakes, owls, and bears as objects of worship. The sky, earth, sun, moon, and stars also play an important religious role. The strong dependence of the nomads on the forces of nature reinforced such connections and fostered belief in shamanism. Traces of such beliefs remain in the religious practice of many of today's Kyrgyz residing in the north.
Knowledge of and interest in Islam is said to be much stronger in the south, especially around Osh, than further north. Religious practice in the north is more mixed with animism and shamanist practices, giving worship there a resemblance toSiberian religious practice.
Islam in Kyrgyzstan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Kyrgyzstan.
Regards
Last edited:
Sees
Dragonslayer
Didn't i say the word has 2 meanings.
I'm betting the strike as in boycotting work is something picked up fairly recent. Highly doubt it is ancient, universal usage.
Is there other areas of the Qur'an where the word is used to obviously not mean beat, hit, etc.?
It could also mean to strike and boycott.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Family is the primary unit in Quran/Islam/Muhammad's teachings.
To save the family from breaking and suffering and upsetting the children the men have been advised.
1. First advise them
2. Then forsake them in bed
3. then chastise them like fathers and mothers chastise their children.
And that is not final. There is every effort for reconciliation.
You are wrong.
Regards
- Status