Was Islam spread by the sword?

[icehorse]

Hi Scimitar,

To recap we have two conversations going on:

1 - The genocide of Hindus. You don't like wikipedia, but here are a few more wikipedia links. The thing to notice about these two links is that at the end of each link there are dozens of citations. This isn't just a few random opinions, these links represent a synthesis of a lot of scholarly work:

Muslim conquests on the Indian subcontinent:
Muslim conquests on the Indian subcontinent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Conversion of non-Muslim places of worship into mosques:
Conversion of non-Muslim places of worship into mosques - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

==

Our second conversation has to do with your claim that there is a "way to understand scripture".

I brought up the Pew poll of 38,000 Muslims because they fairly represent at least 500 million Muslims who understand the scripture differently than you do.

So you can keep calling me ignorant, but I have 500 million Muslims that agree with me

 

[Scimitar]

and 1 billion + who don't?

what's your point again?

and I didn't call you ignorant - I was asking if ignorance was your thing - there's a difference. Although I am starting to suspect ignorance but I will give you the benefit of the doubt because we are all at different stages of learning "life"

God bless.

I'm tired of having my questions dodged - this is supposed to be a debate/conversation - where we both get to ask and answer, but I am left wanting when it comes to you answering my questions and I do not like to quote myself in order to remind you of how you dodged it. But here goes anyway:

If Muslims living in a majority Muslim country want shariah law - in your opinion why is it wrong for them to have it? If they choose the method of governance themselves - why is it wrong?

awaiting your answer.

Scimi

EDIT: going to bed, will catch up tomorrow, goodnight buddy

 

[icehorse]

Hi Scimitar,

Not dodging, your question introduced a third topic between us and we haven't resolved the first two...

Ok, your new question is about whether Sharia is "wrong"...

First off, there's no society that is perfect - they all have flaws. For me, I value human rights very highly. From a human rights perspective, I believe Sharia is bad. OIC countries never agreed to the UN human rights declarations and instead created their own "Cairo" declaration of human rights that puts the needs of Sharia before the rights of people.

So when Sharia makes apostasy a crime we automatically have a human rights problem. We have people who cannot chose to leave a religion. So yes, I call this "wrong". It's "wrong" because the people living under Sharia don't really get to "choose" as you claim. It is a decision they have no voice in, it is a decision made for them.

Just my opinion as a secularist.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Mohammed was just a human his mission was to spread the message and he did.

Message murder, violence, women and sex in paradise with the nymphs and boys Immortals
​

 

[FearGod]

I'm betting the strike as in boycotting work is something picked up fairly recent. Highly doubt it is ancient, universal usage.

Is there other areas of the Qur'an where the word is used to obviously not mean beat, hit, etc.?

The word is self explanatory.

Forsake means to left someone (abandoned someone) , so how to be away and beat, that doesn't make any sense.

 

[FearGod]

Message murder, violence, women and sex in paradise with the nymphs and boys Immortals
​

That is your stupid view about the golden age of Islam that turn the world to civilization.

 

[FearGod]

The reason the Quran was spread by the sword was because Islam is an Arabic religion. Most of the people Islam tried to convert were illiterate and those that could read did not know Arabic. So how could people accept something they couldn't understand or read? They were forced to convert at the point of the sword.

Do you think that i have to understand the quran to become a Muslim ?
So by default all illiterates in this world are atheists.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

That is your stupid view about the golden age of Islam that turn the world to civilization.

I can say with confidence that the only civilization attributed to religion is the so-called Islamic civilization, it is us heard about civilization Christian or Jewish or Buddhist?
When I was a student in the schools of Orban studied decision named ' Islamic civilization ' was studied by the elder bearded predecessor. The entire curriculum was the biography of Ahl al-Sunnah wa'l-Jamaa'ah, said someone on the felntan and Shara also forbade us and hurry to the divine wisdom of ...Etc. In short, the decision was brainwashed Islamic cultural label coated with globalization and has nothing of civilization and not from afar. In fact this Sheikh, who have not seen him smile and not once, work me more known in my life, it was the straw that broke the camel's back which led me lasakmal my education in a kaafir country Western I lost from ongoing mental humiliation. Removed the Sheikh I doubt that Islam is the rubbish of inherited Orban recomposed from the heritage of the people around them such as Jews and Persians.
Who is the genius who came up with the term "Islamic civilization"?

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Where they come from, the concept of civilization and how Muslim civilization and where the effects of civilization today?
In the directory? Especially if we know that this civilization did not exceed seven centuries old and is in full swing at best, it has to transfer five centuries ago when the region was dominated by the Turks (Turkish identity, Yes! and Islam tautological and that its capture as large I snipe him). Mean civilization still fresh date criteria, so where their effects? The Pharaohs Vanua by tens of centuries but the pyramids still exist as a witness, and the same goes for the Roman and Greeks and Chinese and Mayan, where are the Muslims?
Muslim mtvzelk jump here refers to the Umayyad mosque in Damascus, pink would be that this mosque is an old Orthodox Church seized by the Muslims and turned it into a mosque have on Christians. Then there is another ancient civilizations are usually the most important effects in the place of origin or very close to it, which in our case Mecca, the city where the effects of Islamic civilization there? Is it the black stone cube that embraced? In the lobby this cube mud amounts to represent something called civilization? Objects in the Cretaceous had more advanced effects of it! And to answer any mtvzelk most refers to the Alhambra Palace in Spain, sagibh: everything in Spanish is purely Spanish industry blended with the culture of the Moriscos, the people of North Africa, Berbers and others, and has nothing to do with Muhammad at all. What do Muslims is that they have taken significant unwelcome for centuries, And expelled later expel evil by indigenous people, well they did because otherwise he would have said Kandahar instead of Marbella wozirstan instead of Mallorca wemkadicio instead of Barcelona.
​

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

You are beautiful, my mind when in the right environment!
Praise be to mind which I benefited from it during my studies in kaafir and thanks as well to all public and university libraries, which had been a mental health club which had the mental fitness of a miserable time because Islamic indoctrination system. The first lie they taught us in the Islamic educational system that Muslims invented the zero, and without them the world would not have been able to use the computer. It's not a lie, but plagiarism as well. Who invented zero are the Indians, who had moved from the Babylon civilization and Arabic numerals are the numbers of Indian origin and have been converted to Arabic numerals and call Muslims today English numbers because of their stupidity and ignorance of even their own history.
The second lie is that represent half truths have been resolved in favour of Muslims being the people prevail at the time was that the Muslims translated Greek works of Socrates ' mothers warstawa and their ilk, and that without them for lost assets of European civilization. Yes and no. Yes, the translation was in territory controlled by the Muslims as Iraq and Syria; and no, those who were not Muslims but translation Assyrians circumstances to be the Caliph then tolerant demurred. The philosophy and logic are considered heresy in Islam and punk take them must be killed. But fortunately the Sultan was a heretic and allowed them the dissolutes translated the work of infidels. Want proof? Do you allow the teaching of Plato and Aristotle in Islamic universities today?
The exact term is primitive Islamic
Islam is the religion of the Arab culture of gas severely, did not solve the Muslims not only destroying what exists of indigenous civilization being symbols of God forbid companies from God. The only reason to not tear down them the Giza pyramids is that they did not have the destructive tools to do this, the bomb had not been invented yet. Notice what happened to the giant Buddha statue in Afghanistan, 2,500 years old, when Muslims use bombs destroyed it and laughing for the camera and shouting Allah Akbar on news channels to the amazement of the civilized world. Even Azhar hoped them to stop the destruction but to no avail.
And what was destroyed by the Muslims transformed the "Islamic effects" such as the Umayyad mosque in Damascus, and built on the ruins of a Byzantine church built by the hands of a skilled workforce, and what is the Byzantine Church interpret the adoption of Byzantine trazalbenaa Mosque is supposed to be a Muslim? What is the Islamic architectural style anyway?
In India alone, 3,000 were converted into mosques, a Hindu temple and the consequences of such actions remain today among the Indian Muslims and Hindus. The Indians were living in peace and harmony that were Islam, making them fight and were breaking up into two and then two: one is the largest democracy in the world (India) and the second largest shelter for Muslim terrorists (Pakistan).
​

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Summary
Who wants the true effects of so-called falsely Islamic civilization is found in only one place. This place is called the Koran. The Qur'an is the Islamic civilization and Islamic civilization is the Quran and nothing else. Everything outside of the Qur'an is the emergency and return frequently to other civilizations existed before the Muslim lands and destroy and erase the identity of indigenous peoples. Now, if you're a human being with your mentality and look full Quran without reverence, it's just the first two stories of 11,7 COO Jews, Christians in the first half and orders pray at them and kill them, lynched by Libyan demonstrators in the second half, and what remains is to praise and expand the person of Muhammad. I say if you're the kind of people can tenzorni in the eye and say the words "Islamic civilization" without laughing
​

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

That is your stupid view about the golden age of Islam that turn the world to civilization.

Fill your mind
And delegate more decisive things
Islam is not confined
The civilization of Islam the verses of fighting and shagging
And slaves and nymphs

 

[Gnostic Seeker]

That is your stupid view about the golden age of Islam that turn the world to civilization.

Perhaps, but is that what the majority of the Islamic world is doing now? Where are Al-Ghazali and Averroes being lauded in modern Islamic circles?

 

[morphesium]

So one wants to be a chicken instead of a full of wisdom human being.
Is it a good choice?

Regards

Interesting. It was just an example and you cant even understand it. It is just proof of the saying "Religion and wisdom never go together".

Trust me, God gave us brains - use it.

Regards.

 

[FearGod]

I can say with confidence that the only civilization attributed to religion is the so-called Islamic civilization, it is us heard about civilization Christian or Jewish or Buddhist?
When I was a student in the schools of Orban studied decision named ' Islamic civilization ' was studied by the elder bearded predecessor. The entire curriculum was the biography of Ahl al-Sunnah wa'l-Jamaa'ah, said someone on the felntan and Shara also forbade us and hurry to the divine wisdom of ...Etc. In short, the decision was brainwashed Islamic cultural label coated with globalization and has nothing of civilization and not from afar. In fact this Sheikh, who have not seen him smile and not once, work me more known in my life, it was the straw that broke the camel's back which led me lasakmal my education in a kaafir country Western I lost from ongoing mental humiliation. Removed the Sheikh I doubt that Islam is the rubbish of inherited Orban recomposed from the heritage of the people around them such as Jews and Persians.
Who is the genius who came up with the term "Islamic civilization"?

Pls reformulate your post with simple English, your English is very advanced that i can't understand.

 

[FearGod]

Where they come from, the concept of civilization and how Muslim civilization and where the effects of civilization today?
In the directory? Especially if we know that this civilization did not exceed seven centuries old and is in full swing at best, it has to transfer five centuries ago when the region was dominated by the Turks (Turkish identity, Yes! and Islam tautological and that its capture as large I snipe him). Mean civilization still fresh date criteria, so where their effects? The Pharaohs Vanua by tens of centuries but the pyramids still exist as a witness, and the same goes for the Roman and Greeks and Chinese and Mayan, where are the Muslims?
Muslim mtvzelk jump here refers to the Umayyad mosque in Damascus, pink would be that this mosque is an old Orthodox Church seized by the Muslims and turned it into a mosque have on Christians. Then there is another ancient civilizations are usually the most important effects in the place of origin or very close to it, which in our case Mecca, the city where the effects of Islamic civilization there? Is it the black stone cube that embraced? In the lobby this cube mud amounts to represent something called civilization? Objects in the Cretaceous had more advanced effects of it! And to answer any mtvzelk most refers to the Alhambra Palace in Spain, sagibh: everything in Spanish is purely Spanish industry blended with the culture of the Moriscos, the people of North Africa, Berbers and others, and has nothing to do with Muhammad at all. What do Muslims is that they have taken significant unwelcome for centuries, And expelled later expel evil by indigenous people, well they did because otherwise he would have said Kandahar instead of Marbella wozirstan instead of Mallorca wemkadicio instead of Barcelona.
​

Modern human (Homo sapiens) lived earth for 200,000 years as primitive societies and only significant changes occurred in the last 1400 years.

The message of Muhammed was the reason behind the golden age of Islam and then for the modern life that will live today.

 

[paarsurrey]

Was Islam spread by the sword?

No.

For example:

Spread of Islam in the Maldives:

Sunni Islam is the state religion of Maldives, and adherence to it is legally required for citizens by a revision of the constitution in 2008: Article 9, Section D states that a non-Muslim may not become a citizen of the Maldives. The islands converted fromBuddhism in the 12th century, and the indigenous population is effectively all Muslim. According to Moroccan traveller Ibn Battuta, the person responsible for this conversion was a Sunni Muslim visitor named Abu al Barakat sailing from Morocco.

Prominence of Islam[edit].

Islam overtly impacts Maldivean law. The traditional Islamic law code of shariah, known in Dhivehi as sariatu, forms the Maldives' basic code of law, as interpreted to conform to local Maldivian conditions by the president, the attorney general, the Ministry of Home Affairs, and the Majlis. On the inhabited islands, the miski, or mosque, forms the central place where Islam is practiced.

Because Friday is the most important day for Muslims to attend mosque, shops and offices in towns and villages close around 11 a.m., and the sermon begins by 12:30 p.m. Most inhabited islands have several mosques; Malé has more than thirty. Most mosques are whitewashed buildings constructed of coral stone with corrugated iron or thatched roofs.

In Malé, the Islamic Center and the Grand Friday Mosque, built in 1984 with funding from the Persian Gulf states, Pakistan, Brunei, and Malaysia, are imposing elegant structures. The gold-colored dome of this mosque is the first structure sighted when approaching Malé. In mid-1991 Maldives had a total of 725 mosques and 266 women's mosques.

Prayer sessions are held five times daily. Mudimu, the mosque caretakers, make the call. Most shops and offices close for fifteen minutes after each call. During the ninth Muslim month of Ramadan, cafés and restaurants are closed during the day, and working hours are limited.

Ismail Khilath Rasheed controversy[edit]

In November 2011, the blog of journalist Ismail Khilath Rasheed was shut down by Communications Authority of the Maldives (CAM) on the order of the Ministry of Islamic Affairs, on the grounds that the site contained "anti-Islamic material".[1] Rasheed, a self-professed Sufi Muslim, had argued for greater religious tolerance.[2] The blog closing was condemned by Reporters Without Borders[3] and UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navanethem Pillay[4] as representing a rise in religious intolerance.

When Rasheed organized a rally in favor of greater religious freedom on 10 December, the rally was attacked and Rasheed's skull fractured.[2] He was subsequently arrested at the urging of the orthodox Sunni Adhaalath Party,[5] which also set up a counter-demonstration on 23 December to defend Islam's heavy influence upon the nation. One website associated with these demonstrations also advocated strongly in favour of his murder.[6]

Rasheed was released on 10 January following protests by groups such as Amnesty International (which named him a prisoner of conscience[2]) and Reporters Without Borders[5] on his behalf.

Islam in the Maldives - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in the Maldives.

Regards

 

[morphesium]

Yes of course God can make us to be programmed for good deeds. And if We had so willed, We could have given every soul its guidance,(32:13)

Then why didn't he do that. that would have been a good act from the part of God. Every one would have been happy.

but the word from Me concerning evildoers took effect: that I will fill hell with the jinn and mankind together.(32:13)

This doesn't make sense. God himself making reasons to get angry and torture his own creations , something he himself could have prevented.
(32:13)[/QUOTE]

 

[FearGod]

You are beautiful, my mind when in the right environment!
Praise be to mind which I benefited from it during my studies in kaafir and thanks as well to all public and university libraries, which had been a mental health club which had the mental fitness of a miserable time because Islamic indoctrination system. The first lie they taught us in the Islamic educational system that Muslims invented the zero, and without them the world would not have been able to use the computer. It's not a lie, but plagiarism as well. Who invented zero are the Indians, who had moved from the Babylon civilization and Arabic numerals are the numbers of Indian origin and have been converted to Arabic numerals and call Muslims today English numbers because of their stupidity and ignorance of even their own history.
The second lie is that represent half truths have been resolved in favour of Muslims being the people prevail at the time was that the Muslims translated Greek works of Socrates ' mothers warstawa and their ilk, and that without them for lost assets of European civilization. Yes and no. Yes, the translation was in territory controlled by the Muslims as Iraq and Syria; and no, those who were not Muslims but translation Assyrians circumstances to be the Caliph then tolerant demurred. The philosophy and logic are considered heresy in Islam and punk take them must be killed. But fortunately the Sultan was a heretic and allowed them the dissolutes translated the work of infidels. Want proof? Do you allow the teaching of Plato and Aristotle in Islamic universities today?
The exact term is primitive Islamic
Islam is the religion of the Arab culture of gas severely, did not solve the Muslims not only destroying what exists of indigenous civilization being symbols of God forbid companies from God. The only reason to not tear down them the Giza pyramids is that they did not have the destructive tools to do this, the bomb had not been invented yet. Notice what happened to the giant Buddha statue in Afghanistan, 2,500 years old, when Muslims use bombs destroyed it and laughing for the camera and shouting Allah Akbar on news channels to the amazement of the civilized world. Even Azhar hoped them to stop the destruction but to no avail.
And what was destroyed by the Muslims transformed the "Islamic effects" such as the Umayyad mosque in Damascus, and built on the ruins of a Byzantine church built by the hands of a skilled workforce, and what is the Byzantine Church interpret the adoption of Byzantine trazalbenaa Mosque is supposed to be a Muslim? What is the Islamic architectural style anyway?
In India alone, 3,000 were converted into mosques, a Hindu temple and the consequences of such actions remain today among the Indian Muslims and Hindus. The Indians were living in peace and harmony that were Islam, making them fight and were breaking up into two and then two: one is the largest democracy in the world (India) and the second largest shelter for Muslim terrorists (Pakistan).
​

Can you tell us in which date did Europe know number zero ?

I think it is stupid thing to say that there were no available tools to destroy the statue in Afghanistan.

The Islamic civilization during the dark ages can be only neglected by ignorant and haters.

*08. ART

 

[jonathan180iq]

Can you tell us in which date did Europe know number zero ?

I think it is stupid thing to say that there were no available tools to destroy the statue in Afghanistan.

The Islamic civilization during the dark ages can be only neglected by ignorant and haters.

*08. ART

This is very true. Arab culture and science was much more advanced at certain points in history, especially considering the unrest that was taking place in Europe throughout the middle ages.

That being said, your argument about zero is a little silly...

Also, if you're making this argument about Western Culture vs. Middle East, then you're making a big mistake. Historically, the advent of knowledge, regardless of where it came from, is a human accomplishment - not a Christian, or Muslim, or Hindu accomplishment. This entire thread is about flaws in the spread of a religion. It's not an attack on the religion itself - but on the ideals that it's followers hold about the supposed perfection of its prophet and the flaws in the holy book that they regard as perfect.