Was Islam spread by the sword?

[1robin]

80 million Hindu myth debunked in a previous post - you shoulda checked - but hey coz I'm a nice guy, here you go - along the way debunking the figures so that the claim looks like a stupid racist attempt by EDL type hooligans:

No this is pretty much a historical consensus. But lets pretend it is not. If not 80 million how many million was it and why is that amount excusable?

 

[Scimitar]

I'm not going to repeat myself and all you have to do is read my second before last post 1robin

The MYTH that Muslims killed 80 million Hindus HAS BEEN DEBUNKED sorry you are sorry about that and still trying to play your trump card - however, I must at this juncture, politely inform you that i am the one who holds all the trump cards here... thank you for your time.

Best,

As for your historical consensus, are you really so ignorant to suppose that history has a consensus? pfft, really now - you are saying that whilst knowing full well that history is a double edged sword - and not once have you provided a comparative - so when it comes to method, don't think you can teach me anything when you yourself do not practice it.

Scimi

 

[paarsurrey]

Was Islam spread by the sword?

No.

For example:

Spread of Islam in Circassians: [7]

History

Circassia was a small independent nation on the northeastern shore of the Black Sea. For no reason other than ethnic hatred, over the course of hundreds of raids the Russians drove the Circassians from their homeland and deported them to the Ottoman Empire. At least 600,000 people lost their lives to massacre, starvation, and the elements while hundreds of thousands more were forced to leave their homeland. By 1864, three-fourths of the population was annihilated, and the Circassians had become one of the first stateless peoples in modern history.
— Walter Richmond, The Circassian Genocide [48]

Adyghe Khabze

Adyghe Khabze (Adyghe: Адыгэ Хабз&#1101 is the native Circassian religion, philosophy and worldview, it is the epitome of Circassian culture and tradition having deeply shaped the ethical values of the Adyghe. It is their code of honour and is based on mutual respect and above all requires responsibility, discipline and self-control. Adyghe Xabze functions as the Circassian unwritten law yet was highly regulated and adhered to in the past. The Code requires that all Circassians are taught courage, reliability and generosity. Greed, desire for possessions, wealth and ostentation are considered disgraceful ("Yemiku") by the Xabze code.

In accordance with Xabze, hospitality was and is particularly pronounced among the Circassians. A guest is not only a guest of the host family, but equally a guest of the whole village and clan. Even enemies are regarded as guests if they enter the home and being hospitable to them as one would with any other guest is a sacred duty.

Circassians consider the host to be like a slave to the guest in that the host is expected to tend to the guest's every need and want. A guest must never be permitted to labour in any way, this is considered a major disgrace on the host.

Every Circassian arises when someone enters the room, providing a place for the person entering and allowing the newcomer to speak before everyone else during the conversation. In the presence of elders and women respectful conversation and conduct are essential. Disputes are stopped in the presence of women and domestic disputes are never continued in the presence of guests.

A woman can request disputing families to reconcile and they must comply with her request. A key figure in Circassian culture is the person known as the "T'hamade" (Adyghe: Тхьэмадэ - Тхьэмат&#1101, who is often an elder but also the person who carries the responsibility for functions like weddings or circumcision parties. This person must always comply with all the rules of Xabze in all areas of his life.

Traditional clothing

The Adyghe traditional clothing (Adyghe: Адыгэ Щыгъыныхэр [aːdəɣa ɕəʁənəxar]) refers to the historical clothing worn by the Adyghe people.
The traditional female clothing (Adyghe: Бзылъфыгъэ Шъуашэр [bzəɬfəʁa ʂʷaːʃar]) was very diverse and highly decorated and mainly depends on the region, class of family, occasions, and tribes.

The traditional female costume is composed of a dress (Adyghe: Джанэр [d͡ʒaːnar]), coat (Adyghe: Сае [saːja]), shirt, pant (Adyghe: ДжэнэкӀакор[d͡ʒanat͡ʃʼaːkʷar]), vest (Adyghe: КӀэкӀ [t͡ʃʼat͡ʃʼ]), lamb leather bra (Adyghe: Шъохътан [ʂʷaχtaːn]), a variety of hats (Adyghe: ПэӀохэр [paʔʷaxar]), shoes, and belts (Adyghe: Бгырыпхыхэр [bɣərəpxəxar]). Holiday dresses are made of expensive fabrics such as silk and velvet. The traditional colors of women's clothing rarely includes blue, green or bright-colored tones, instead mostly white, red, black and brown shades are worn.

The traditional male costume (Adyghe: Адыгэ хъулъфыгъэ шъуашэр [aːdəɣa χʷəɬfəʁa ʂʷaːʃar] ) includes a coat with wide sleeves, shirt, pants, a dagger, sword, and a variety of hats and shoes. Traditionally, young men in the warriors times wore coat with short sleeves—in order to feel more comfortable in combat. Different colors of clothing for males were strictly used to distinguish between different social classes, for example white is usually worn by princes, red by nobles, gray, brown, and black by peasants (blue, green and the other colors were rarely worn).

A compulsory item in the traditional male costume is a dagger and a sword. The traditional Adyghean sword is called Shashka. It is a special kind of sabre; a very sharp, single-edged, single-handed, and guardless sword. Although the sword is used by most of Russian and Ukrainian Cossacks, the typically Adyghean form of the sabre is longer than the Cossack type, and in fact the word Shashka came from the Adyghe word "Sashkhwa" (Adyghe: Сашьхъу&#1101 which means "long knife". On the breast of the costume are long ornamental tubes or sticks, once filled with a single charge of gunpowder (called gaziri cadridges) and used to reload muskets.

Circassians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Circassians.

Regards

 

[1robin]

I'm not going to repeat myself and all you have to do is read my second before last post 1robin

The MYTH that Muslims killed 80 million Hindus HAS BEEN DEBUNKED sorry you are sorry about that and still trying to play your trump card - however, I must at this juncture, politely inform you that i am the one who holds all the trump cards here... thank you for your time.

Best,

As for your historical consensus, are you really so ignorant to suppose that history has a consensus? pfft, really now - you are saying that whilst knowing full well that history is a double edged sword - and not once have you provided a comparative - so when it comes to method, don't think you can teach me anything when you yourself do not practice it.

Scimi

Of course history can have a consensus. A consensus is not unanimity it is roughly general agreement or a majority. Unless you mean the exact number 80 million. I did not mean to imply the exact number is agreed to but that the general severity was.

Here are a few examples:

Hindus
Koenard Elst in Negationism in India gives an estimate of 80 million Hindus killed in the total jihad against India. [Koenard Elst, Negationism in India, Voice of India, New Delhi, 2002, pg. 34.] The country of India today is only half the size of ancient India, due to jihad. The mountains near India are called the Hindu Kush, meaning the “funeral pyre of the Hindus.”
80 million Hindus.
Political Islam // Articles // Tears of Jihad

The cost of the Muslim invasions is massive in lives, wealth and culture. Estimates suggest that 60-80 MILLION died at the hands of Muslim invaders and rulers between 1000 and 1525 alone (ie over 500 years-the population FELL). (Lal cited in Khan p 216) Impossible you think? In the war of Independence of Bangladesh, 1971, the Muslim Pakistani army killed 1.5-3 million people (mainly Muslims ...) in just 9 MONTHS. (Khan p 216). The world looked the other way—but don’t we always when it’s Muslims committing the violence!

Based on the figures that are available, the number of Indians enslaved is enormous!

Three articles cover India: Part I concentrates on slavery while parts J and K examine the Islamic jihad against India not as a list of battles but as a record of the need by pious Muslims to exterminate idolatry and polytheism and make India ‘Muslim’ as expressed in their own memoirs and the writings of Muslim historians.

The Muslim conquest of India was probably the bloodiest in history:

The Islamic historians and scholars have recorded with utmost glee and pride of the slaughters of Hindus, forced conversions, abduction of Hindu women and children to slave-markets, and the destruction of temples carried out by the warriors of Islam during 800AD to 1700 AD. Millions of Hindus were converted to Islam by the sword in this period” (historian Durant cited in Khan p 201)
Islam

Persecution of Hindus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You are right to suggest that sources for wiki are not always good but look at this pages resources.

•Bill Warner interview, Feb 2007 (and copy) ◦ "First, let's see how ignorant we are about the history of political Islam. How many Christians can tell you how Turkey or Egypt became Islamic? What happened to the Seven Churches of Asia mentioned in Paul's letters? Find a Jew who can tell you the Jewish history of dhimmitude (second class citizens who serve Islam). What European knows that white women were the highest priced slaves in Mecca? Everyone knows how many Jews Hitler killed, but find an unbeliever who can tell you how many died in jihad over the last 1400 years."
◦ "Jihad destroyed a Christian Middle East and a Christian North Africa. Soon it was the fate of the Persian Zoroastrian and the Hindu to be the victims of jihad. The history of political Islam is the destruction of Christianity in the Middle East, Egypt, Turkey and North Africa. Half of Christianity was lost. Before Islam, North Africa was the southern part of Europe (part of the Roman Empire). Around 60 million Christians were slaughtered during the jihadic conquest. Half of the glorious Hindu civilization was annihilated and 80 million Hindus killed. The first Western Buddhists were the Greeks descended from Alexander the Great's army in what is now Afghanistan. Jihad destroyed all of Buddhism along the silk route. About 10 million Buddhists died. The conquest of Buddhism is the practical result of pacifism. Zoroastrianism was eliminated from Persia. The Jews became permanent dhimmis throughout Islam. In Africa over 120 million Christians and animists have died over the last 1400 years of jihad. Approximately 270 million nonbelievers died over the last 1400 years for the glory of political Islam. These are the Tears of Jihad which are not taught in any school."
Killings for Islam

I can keep this up forever and you will just keep accusing sites of bias or whatever is necessary, so lets be generous and state it is only 20 million.

In what practical way is 20 million ok but 80 million a problem. If your in that deep might as well own up to it. Even if you divide every statistic by ten you are still left with way too much killing to not have as justification of a way of explaining. I am more interested in the explanation than haggling over death tolls. I also can do without the personal accusations.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Was Islam spread by the sword?

No.

For example:

Spread of Islam in Circassians: [7]

History....

 

[1robin]

Was Islam spread by the sword?

No.

For example:

Spread of Islam in Circassians: [7]

History

Circassia was a small independent nation on the northeastern shore of the Black Sea. For no reason other than ethnic hatred, over the course of hundreds of raids the Russians drove the Circassians from their homeland and deported them to the Ottoman Empire. At least 600,000 people lost their lives to massacre, starvation, and the elements while hundreds of thousands more were forced to leave their homeland. By 1864, three-fourths of the population was annihilated, and the Circassians had become one of the first stateless peoples in modern history.
— Walter Richmond, The Circassian Genocide [48]

Adyghe Khabze

Adyghe Khabze (Adyghe: Адыгэ Хабз&#1101 is the native Circassian religion, philosophy and worldview, it is the epitome of Circassian culture and tradition having deeply shaped the ethical values of the Adyghe. It is their code of honour and is based on mutual respect and above all requires responsibility, discipline and self-control. Adyghe Xabze functions as the Circassian unwritten law yet was highly regulated and adhered to in the past. The Code requires that all Circassians are taught courage, reliability and generosity. Greed, desire for possessions, wealth and ostentation are considered disgraceful ("Yemiku") by the Xabze code.

In accordance with Xabze, hospitality was and is particularly pronounced among the Circassians. A guest is not only a guest of the host family, but equally a guest of the whole village and clan. Even enemies are regarded as guests if they enter the home and being hospitable to them as one would with any other guest is a sacred duty.

Circassians consider the host to be like a slave to the guest in that the host is expected to tend to the guest's every need and want. A guest must never be permitted to labour in any way, this is considered a major disgrace on the host.

Every Circassian arises when someone enters the room, providing a place for the person entering and allowing the newcomer to speak before everyone else during the conversation. In the presence of elders and women respectful conversation and conduct are essential. Disputes are stopped in the presence of women and domestic disputes are never continued in the presence of guests.

A woman can request disputing families to reconcile and they must comply with her request. A key figure in Circassian culture is the person known as the "T'hamade" (Adyghe: Тхьэмадэ - Тхьэмат&#1101, who is often an elder but also the person who carries the responsibility for functions like weddings or circumcision parties. This person must always comply with all the rules of Xabze in all areas of his life.

Traditional clothing

The Adyghe traditional clothing (Adyghe: Адыгэ Щыгъыныхэр [aːdəɣa ɕəʁənəxar]) refers to the historical clothing worn by the Adyghe people.
The traditional female clothing (Adyghe: Бзылъфыгъэ Шъуашэр [bzəɬfəʁa ʂʷaːʃar]) was very diverse and highly decorated and mainly depends on the region, class of family, occasions, and tribes.

The traditional female costume is composed of a dress (Adyghe: Джанэр [d͡ʒaːnar]), coat (Adyghe: Сае [saːja]), shirt, pant (Adyghe: ДжэнэкӀакор[d͡ʒanat͡ʃʼaːkʷar]), vest (Adyghe: КӀэкӀ [t͡ʃʼat͡ʃʼ]), lamb leather bra (Adyghe: Шъохътан [ʂʷaχtaːn]), a variety of hats (Adyghe: ПэӀохэр [paʔʷaxar]), shoes, and belts (Adyghe: Бгырыпхыхэр [bɣərəpxəxar]). Holiday dresses are made of expensive fabrics such as silk and velvet. The traditional colors of women's clothing rarely includes blue, green or bright-colored tones, instead mostly white, red, black and brown shades are worn.

The traditional male costume (Adyghe: Адыгэ хъулъфыгъэ шъуашэр [aːdəɣa χʷəɬfəʁa ʂʷaːʃar] ) includes a coat with wide sleeves, shirt, pants, a dagger, sword, and a variety of hats and shoes. Traditionally, young men in the warriors times wore coat with short sleeves—in order to feel more comfortable in combat. Different colors of clothing for males were strictly used to distinguish between different social classes, for example white is usually worn by princes, red by nobles, gray, brown, and black by peasants (blue, green and the other colors were rarely worn).

A compulsory item in the traditional male costume is a dagger and a sword. The traditional Adyghean sword is called Shashka. It is a special kind of sabre; a very sharp, single-edged, single-handed, and guardless sword. Although the sword is used by most of Russian and Ukrainian Cossacks, the typically Adyghean form of the sabre is longer than the Cossack type, and in fact the word Shashka came from the Adyghe word "Sashkhwa" (Adyghe: Сашьхъу&#1101 which means "long knife". On the breast of the costume are long ornamental tubes or sticks, once filled with a single charge of gunpowder (called gaziri cadridges) and used to reload muskets.

Circassians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Circassians.

Regards

Maybe that is because Circasians is not a place, it is an ethnic group.

 

[Scimitar]

Of course history can have a consensus. A consensus is not unanimity it is roughly general agreement or a majority. Unless you mean the exact number 80 million. I did not mean to imply the exact number is agreed to but that the general severity was.

Ok, I'll humour you, since you took the time to post.

Here are a few examples:

Hindus
Koenard Elst in Negationism in India gives an estimate of 80 million Hindus killed in the total jihad against India. [Koenard Elst, Negationism in India, Voice of India, New Delhi, 2002, pg. 34.] The country of India today is only half the size of ancient India, due to jihad....[snip]

there's only so much Bull **** I can read buddy... India is only the size it is today because the Brits carved out the territory for ali jinna and crew... India became 4 countries in a matter of minutes - India, east Pakistan (Bangladesh), West Pakistan (Pakistan) and Sri Lanka. ceylon was a subsidiary state of India until it also was carved and told "do your own thing" - how dare you try and lie such a blatant lie here? Have you no shame?

I cannot read anymore ******** from you until you decide to really get your points straightened out.

I'm an eschatologist, and History is one of my stronger points of focus.

Scimi

 

[1robin]

Ok, I'll humour you, since you took the time to post.

Never mind, judging from what is below you have an emotional preference in search of information to justify it. I already have some of those and can't handle any more. But I will respond to this.

there's only so much Bull **** I can read buddy... India is only the size it is today because the Brits carved out the territory for ali jinna and crew... India became 4 countries in a matter of minutes - India, east Pakistan (Bangladesh), West Pakistan (Pakistan) and Sri Lanka. ceylon was a subsidiary state of India until it also was carved and told "do your own thing" - how dare you try and lie such a blatant lie here? Have you no shame?

For pity sake what does a geographical/political event that I would have agreed to in a heart beat from 1947 have anything to do with genocides that occurred between 800Ad and 1700Ad? What in the world are you talking about?

I cannot read anymore ******** from you until you decide to really get your points straightened out.

I'm an eschatologist, and History is one of my stronger points of focus.

Scimi

Apparently so is personal commentary and irrelevant events.

I finally figured out what your talking about. You completely ignored every relevant claim or statement I made or posted and instead hung my entire argument out to dry on a secondary footnote made about an unrelated event, made by Elst. I am getting out of this before I get any on me. Good luck with whatever is causing this.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

so what you are saying is that you paid a man for a hot dog and then thought you'd share it with a Moozlum? Hmmm.... I think that's accurate... right?

You NEED to learn English man, your Arabic to English translation is rubbish.

And the person you paid took your money and did not translate it - it looks the same as your other nonsensical and cryptically idiotic posts... wasteman,

You commitment literature in dialogue
If you are to understand what type of this problem
I am talking about people who believe that Paul's is the best medicine for them
Do you believe in drinking camel urine
As you do your Prophet
Do you afthmt the word
Money and coins
I write for free
My goal that sent you the love of Christ that unknown you
You are in Dalam Islam
I invite you to turn your mind only
This is mhabni you
And next time do not send any abusive words
Because we are in a decent and wonderful Forum
​

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

“Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error”
[Quran 2:256]

Don't they employ the pious
This verse verse copied from other
I repeat
Copying means cancel
Cancel this verse from the Quran and other
She did not accept Islam as it is in the afterlife of losers
You must write what is in the Quran
Because the Muslims want to offer responds very well the Islamic religion as a religion tolerant
But in the last verse no tolerance
Accept Islam or loss
I wish I could speak just right
​

 

[1robin]

You commitment literature in dialogue
If you are to understand what type of this problem
I am talking about people who believe that Paul's is the best medicine for them
Do you believe in drinking camel urine
As you do your Prophet
Do you afthmt the word
Money and coins
I write for free
My goal that sent you the love of Christ that unknown you
You are in Dalam Islam
I invite you to turn your mind only
This is mhabni you
And next time do not send any abusive words
Because we are in a decent and wonderful Forum
​

That Google translate must be tough to use. It results in some unusual sentences but no matter, rock on. Do you use it to go to English alone or to go from English as well?

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Islam is the religion of the Arab culture of gas severely, did not solve the Muslims not only destroying what exists of indigenous civilization being symbols of God forbid companies from God. The only reason to not tear down them the Giza pyramids is that they did not have the destructive tools to do this, the bomb had not been invented yet. Notice what happened to the giant Buddha statue in Afghanistan, 2,500 years old, when Muslims use bombs destroyed it and laughing for the camera and shouting Allah Akbar on news channels to the amazement of the civilized world. Even Azhar hoped them to stop the destruction but to no avail.

 

[Scimitar]

I am getting out of this before I get any on me. Good luck with whatever is causing this.

Very weak exit strategy I was expecting you to concede defeat, gracefully - not this claptrap of a fiasco you've put on me. Sheesh. Play ball or leave - your choice - ho hum,

Scimi

 

[1robin]

Very weak exit strategy I was expecting you to concede defeat, gracefully - not this claptrap of a fiasco you've put on me. Sheesh. Play ball or leave - your choice - ho hum,

Scimi

Defeat, that's a good one.

 

[icehorse]

wikipedia is editable by any nincompoop - I don't use wiki as scholarly research material - I have libraries at my disposal - online ones - and the argument from authority is validated over the argument from ignorance - so you really don't have a point Ice, sorry to tell it like it is, but you don't.

Scimi

If you read my post I indicated that wikipedia was my INITIAL source, not my only source. And - based on your comment above - I suspect you don't have a good grasp on the mechanisms of a quality wiki. It's true that at any given moment any nincompoop can edit a wiki. But over time, wiki entries stabilize, and come to represent solid explanations.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

That Google translate must be tough to use. It results in some unusual sentences but no matter, rock on. Do you use it to go to English alone or to go from English as well?

Thanks-I used Google translation quick/I know my words well understood
But some don't they can answer
They withdraw under the pretext that my language is not valid
For example.
Drinking camel urine
The word understandable
Who believes that drinking urine's best treatment nabavi
Here he answers
Because the mind revolted from urine
​

 

[1robin]

Thanks-I used Google translation quick/I know my words well understood
But some don't they can answer
They withdraw under the pretext that my language is not valid
For example.
Drinking camel urine
The word understandable
Who believes that drinking urine's best treatment nabavi
Here he answers
Because the mind revolted from urine
​

The words it translates are sometimes very awkward in funny ways but keep it up.

 

[FearGod]

Thanks-I used Google translation quick/I know my words well understood
But some don't they can answer
They withdraw under the pretext that my language is not valid
For example.
Drinking camel urine
The word understandable
Who believes that drinking urine's best treatment nabavi
Here he answers
Because the mind revolted from urine
​

Yes the urine was expensive at that time and shepherds used to save all the urine to sell it in the market, those guys killed the shepherd to use and sell the urine.

They have been caught selling the urine in the market and by investigation they found out that they killed the shepherd to sell the urine.

In one other story i heard that one shepherd beat his camel because it pee outside the pail, then when the prophet saw him he asked him why you beat the camel, the shepherd told him that the camel pee outside the pail, the prophet said it deserved the punishment as the urine saves lives.

I missed who narrated this hadith but you may try to google for it, you may use the following words : prophet, shepherd , beat, camel, pail and rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Yes the urine was expensive at that time and shepherds used to save all the urine to sell it in the market, those guys killed the shepherd to use and sell the urine.

They have been caught selling the urine in the market and by investigation they found out that they killed the shepherd to sell the urine.

In one other story i heard that one shepherd beat his camel because it pee outside the pail, then when the prophet saw him he asked him why you beat the camel, the shepherd told him that the camel pee outside the pail, the prophet said it deserved the punishment as the urine saves lives.

I missed who narrated this hadith but you may try to google for it, you may use the following words : prophet, shepherd , beat, camel, pail and rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots

You understand
Differently
Mohammed said that Paul's medication
And then kill them Arabs because they stole a camel
After that knew the usefulness of medication
And camels were Kings Mohammed, killed
The modern history of Mohammedanism
Muslims and the discovery of disrespect
To this day those who follow Muhammad and drink Paul's greetings to you
​

 

[Sees]

One of the early cases

Demolition of Dhul Khalasa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Strictly for religious purposes and sanctioned by the big boss himself.

Of course, technically not converting at sword point - simply clearing out possible, future religious opposition and sending a clear message.