Was Islam spread by the sword?

[illykitty]

To be fair, I tend to be fairly hard on all religions. Islam, however, has peaked my interest since 9/11.

But there's nutjobs in every group of people.

And it's not just a religious thing either. It's probably an identity, us vs. them thing. Even with something as stupid as football.

If you are harsh with Muslims you'll have to be harsh... With nearly everything that has some form of group identity.

 

[YmirGF]

That defines Islam and stands for the +1.5 billions Muslims in +50 Muslim countries and as well scattered in all non Muslims countries world wide?

But if the numbers postulated are accurate then there are not really 1.5 billion Muslims, now, is there? In reality, there is 150 - 300 million... but who are they? How do we tell?

If Islam and Muslims are who you think they are; the monsters and the takers by the sword, the +1.5 billion of them would have taken over the world by now!

Only if no one opposed them. Given that the over-whelming majority on the planet are non-Muslims... it might be a hard slog...

You only see on the media and listen to people. You never lived the life of a Muslim or in a Muslims country to give a valid conclusion!

I have interacted with many Muslims since 9/11. Some are sweet and kind. Many are quite delusional.

Last but not the least, and this is generally speaking and not about you, why is it my fault that I, a Muslims that talks to you with respect, respect other beliefs and thoughts, make friends from all faiths and interact with non Muslims at my work place like they are of us, as well as other Muslims like that, to be generalized because of examples like the ones you gave?

Think of the implications of the 5-10% idea floated by a fellow supposed Muslim on this very thread? Why should I believe what you are saying? Are you one of the "true" Muslims?


Look, I know that all Muslims are not evil incarnate. I do not follow the media portrayal of Islam and here in Canada - verbatim. Islam and Muslims are treated with kid gloves by the Canadian Media because we are so hung up about offending anyone. Did you know that in almost every news report here that the newscasters are almost tripping over themselves to NOT identify Muslims or Islam or Jihadi or Islamist, etc... For example, when the Boko Haram story broke recently, my news media simply referred to them as a militant terrorist group. No one I heard even mentioned Islam, what Boko Haram means or said the "M" word (Muslim).

So, the media, in Canada, at least is not quite as rabid as you might think. One has to dig a bit deeper to find out the thorny details that our media doesn't want to mention.

 

[YmirGF]

But there's nutjobs in every group of people.

And it's not just a religious thing either. It's probably an identity, us vs. them thing. Even with something as stupid as football.

If you are harsh with Muslims you'll have to be harsh... With nearly everything that has some form of group identity.

I agree. I'm can be accused of many things, but following the herd is not one of them. There was that nasty period though when I was a card carrying member of the Liberal Party of Canada. I still feel a bit dirty over that...

 

[paarsurrey]

Islam has spread in every nook and corner of the planet Earth; peacefully of course.

Spread of Islam in Burma

The first Muslims arrived on the Arakan coast and moved into the upward hinterland to Maungdaw. The time when the Muslims arrived in Burma and in Arakan andMaungdaw is uncertain. Then the Muslims arrived in Burma's Ayeyarwady River delta, on the Tanintharyi coast and in Rakhine in the 9th century, prior to the establishment of the first Burmese empire in 1055 AD by King Anawrahta of Bagan.[3][4][5][6][7][8] These early Muslim settlements and the propagation of Islam weredocumented by Arab, Persian, European and Chinese travelers of the 9th century.[3][9] Burmese Hindus are the descendants of Muslim peoples who settled andintermarried with the local Burmese ethnic groups.[10][11]

Muslims arrived in Burma as traders or settlers,[12] military personnel,[13] and prisoners of war,[13]refugees,[3] and as victims of slavery.[14] However, many early Muslims also as saying goes held positions of status as royal advisers, royal administrators, port authorities, mayors, and traditional medicine men.[15]

Persian Muslims arrived in northern Burma on the border with the Chinese region of Yunnan as recorded in the Chronicles of China in 860 AD.[3][16] Burmese Muslims were sometimes called Pathi,[17] a name believed to be derived from Persian. Many settlements in the southern region near present day Thailand were noted for the Muslim populations, in which Muslims often outnumbered the local Buddhists.

In one record, Pathein was said to be populated with Pathis,[17] and was ruled by three Indian Muslim Kings in the 13th century.[18][19][20] Arab merchants also arrived in Martaban, Mergui, and there were Arab settlements in the present Myeik archipelago's mid-western quarters.[21]

The first Muslims had landed in Myanmar (Burma's) Ayeyarwady River delta, Tanintharyi coast and Rakhine as seamen in 9th century, prior to the establishment of the first Myanmar (Burmese) empire in 1055 AD by King Anawrahta of Bagan or Pagan.[22][23][24][25]

The dawn of the Muslim settlements and the propagation of Islam was widely documented by the Arab,Persian, European and Chinese travelers of 9th century.[26][27] The current population of Myanmar Muslims are the descendants of Arabs, Persians, Turks, Moors, Indian-Muslims, sheikhs, Pakistanis, Pathans, Bengalis, Chinese Muslims andMalays who settled and intermarried with local Burmese and many ethnic Myanmar groups such as, Rakhine, Shan, Karen, Monetc.[28][29]

Islam in Burma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regards

 

[Smart_Guy]

But if the numbers postulated are accurate then there are not really 1.5 billion Muslims, now, is there? In reality, there is 150 - 300 million... but who are they? How do we tell?

Well, if you believe anything bad the media tells about Muslims, why not believe these numbers, something neutral neither good nor bad, I found on many resources on the internet? And the world is a big place to just imagine a calculation. I got my numbers from various resources with close results!

Only if no one opposed them. Given that the over-whelming majority on the planet are non-Muslims... it might be a hard slog...

No one is opposing Muslims now, yet they are not doing anything. Interestingly related to the previous paragraph, Indonesia alone has +200 million Muslims. You also said "might be a hard slog" so I see that you're putting a possibility that your own prediction could be wrong!

Think of the implications of the 5-10% idea floated by a fellow supposed Muslim on this very thread? Why should I believe what you are saying? Are you one of the "true" Muslims?

You say who implied that is supposedly Muslims and keep opposing supposedly Muslims for defending Islam, yet when one says something you agree with, you accept it from them. And, why would I lie to you? We are thousands of miles apart. Why would I worry for telling the truth? And yes, I consider myself a true Muslim. At least in following the Islamic teachings in pubic relationships, which is what matters in this subject!

Look, I know that all Muslims are not evil incarnate. I do not follow the media portrayal of Islam and here in Canada - verbatim. Islam and Muslims are treated with kid gloves by the Canadian Media because we are so hung up about offending anyone. Did you know that in almost every news report here that the newscasters are almost tripping over themselves to NOT identify Muslims or Islam or Jihadi or Islamist, etc... For example, when the Boko Haram story broke recently, my news media simply referred to them as a militant terrorist group. No one I heard even mentioned Islam, what Boko Haram means or said the "M" word (Muslim).

So, the media, in Canada, at least is not quite as rabid as you might think. One has to dig a bit deeper to find out the thorny details that our media doesn't want to mention.

Just what I wanted to know, and I appreciate that!

I say that whatever you dug deeper for, does not even come close to reality. As I said, you never lived a life of a Muslims nor in a Muslim country long enough to know reality. What you dug for are inventories and backups of people just like us that can make honey feel like it tastes as tar in a description with a little word manipulation, not a real life experience!

In this case, try listening to people like Joshua Evans, Cat Stevens and Yusuf Estes, and shows like the Dean Show. All are Westerners!

I have interacted with many Muslims since 9/11. Some are sweet and kind. Many are quite delusional.

A selfish request: please consider taking the kind ones as an example to judge Islam and Muslims, instead taking the delusional ones, even of they are less. At least for the sake of those you admitted they are sweet and kind, and to have a neutral judgment (I won't even say good) instead of a negative one. It is not fair for them to carry the burden of the bad of the delusional ones!

I don't really mind if you have bad impression about Muslims and Islam. It is your opinion and I respect that. All I ask is to leave us alone in peace and not slap us on the face and let it go over to affect the good part in Islam and Muslims. You're giving me the impression that as if you have a personal grudge and want to exact revenge!

What were their ethnicity and class, if I may ask?

 

[arcanum]

What I'm picking up from our Muslim friends is they aren't being taught by their religious leaders the whole truth, the apologist rhetoric is coming through loud and clear. To be fair many Christians aren't taught about their bloody history either. You have to stop listening to the apologists who spin everything in a positive light and try reading some objective history, or from sources who aren't so agenda driven...or not. But those who are in the know are not convinced by these apologist arguments so far. To get near the truth of something one needs to look at it from many angles, or even better, much like a tv you can't make out clearly what's on the screen if you sit too close to it.

 

[arcanum]

To be fair, I tend to be fairly hard on all religions. Islam, however, has peaked my interest since 9/11. But then, as I hear the argument go in this thread, that attack was not committed by "true" Muslims... apparently... Before that it was the nutjobs that took over Iran. I guess they are not "true" Muslims either... and then the thousands of incidents, from around the world, that featured Muslims who were apparently not "true" Muslims right up to the latest escapades of Boko Haram and their abducting young schoolgirls. No doubt, Boko Haram are not "true" Muslims either...

The really weird bit here is that one supposedly Muslim writer in this very thread opined that only 5-10% of declared Muslims are "real" Muslims. If that number is true how can non-Muslims possibly believe a word any Muslim is saying? It's almost like we need a sniff test to vet what a Muslim is claiming before we can decide if they are one of the "real" Muslims...

Is anyone here following the spread of peace in Iraq at the moment?

 

[YmirGF]

Is anyone here following the spread of peace in Iraq at the moment?

Yeah, that seems to be going swimmingly.

 

[arcanum]

Yeah, that seems to be going swimmingly.

Don't worry, its all very peaceful of course.:yes:

 

[FearGod]

Don't worry, its all very peaceful of course.:yes:

Didn't you ever heard about civil wars ?

What that to do with Islam ? are they forcing the others to convert to Islam,all groups are muslims. so it has nothing to do with spreading Islam.so it is so stupid to bring this issue here and even to give it of any value for discussion.

 

[arcanum]

Didn't you ever heard about civil wars ?

What that to do with Islam ? are they forcing the others to convert to Islam,all groups are muslims. so it has nothing to do with spreading Islam.so it is so stupid to bring this issue here and even to give it of any value for discussion.

The hardcore's are trying to implement strict sharia law, apparently being a moderate Muslim just won't do, the hardcore's don't believe being a moderate is being Muslim enough. These groups are spreading all over the region, do you condemn them or do you believe they are properly respresentating Islam? There can be no doubt that these groups are spreading their brand by the sword.

 

[FearGod]

The hardcore's are trying to implement strict sharia law, apparently being a moderate Muslim just won't do, the hardcore's don't believe being a moderate is being Muslim enough. These groups are spreading all over the region, do you condemn them or do you believe they are properly respresentating Islam? There can be no doubt that these groups are spreading their brand by the sword.

No,it is both group want to rule Iraq,both groups are Muslims.

Civil wars happen every now and then,and yes everyone want to control Iraq by using of force,that is a normal thing to happen.

 

[arcanum]

No,it is both group want to rule Iraq,both groups are Muslims.

Civil wars happen every now and then,and yes everyone want to control Iraq by using of force,that is a normal thing to happen.

You say it's normal but I don't see those things happening in the west, not normal over here. Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, parts of Africa....you see a pattern here?

 

[FearGod]

You say it's normal but I don't see those things happening in the west, not normal over here. Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, parts of Africa....you see a pattern here?

If not happening now in the west that doesn't mean it wouldn't ever happen.

 

[Flankerl]

all groups are muslims

The Assyrians most certainly arent. Bakhdida is the biggest city their militia controls.

 

[FearGod]

The Assyrians most certainly arent. Bakhdida is the biggest city their militia controls.

Regardless of who controls or who win,it is all about civil wars.

 

[arcanum]

Regardless of who controls or who win,it is all about civil wars.

Yeah but if Islam is supposed to be the one true religion, God's final revelation, why is there so much violence and problems amongst those nations where Islam is predominately practiced? Shouldn't Islam be a reflection of God's will and order instead of what it is reflecting now in many places around the world?

 

[Flankerl]

Regardless of who controls or who win,it is all about civil wars.

Yeah yeah all those Shiites fleeing into the south and all those Assyrians barricading their cities are probably only afraid that the flag on the government buildings will change.


Nothing else going on here...

 

[FearGod]

Yeah but if Islam is supposed to be the one true religion, God's final revelation, why is there so much violence and problems amongst those nations where Islam is predominately practiced? Shouldn't Islam be a reflection of God's will and order instead of what it is reflecting now in many places around the world?

That exactly what had happened,Islam converted people from the age of ignorance to the great Islamic civilization which led the world from east to west.

What is happening today of weakness and conflict is already foretold by the prophet,so for me what is happening is an evidence for the veracity of Islam.

 

[arcanum]

That exactly what had happened,Islam converted people from the age of ignorance to the great Islamic civilization which led the world from east to west.

What is happening today of weakness and conflict is already foretold by the prophet,so for me what is happening is an evidence for the veracity of Islam.

Can you elaborate on this a little?