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Was Islam spread by the sword?

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paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Was Islam spread by the sword?

No.

For example:

Spread of Islam in Korea: [2]

In addition to fewer than 30,000 indigenous Korean Muslims, are South Asian, Middle Eastern (i.e. Iraqi), Indonesianand Malaysian immigrants in South Korea, the majority of whom are Muslims. They have been guest workers since the 1990s, taking the total Muslim population in the country to around 35,000.[1]

Early history[edit]

Goryeo kingdom[edit]

According to local Korean accounts, Muslims arrived in the peninsula in the year 1024 in the Goryeo kingdom, a group of some 100 Muslims, including Hasan Raza, came in September of the 15th year of Hyeonjong of Goryeo and another group of 100 Muslim merchants came the following year.[10]

Trading relations between the Islamic world and the Korean peninsula continued with the succeeding Goryeo kingdom through to the 15th century. As a result, a number of Muslim traders from the Near East and Central Asia settled down in Korea and established families there. Some Muslim Hui people from China also appear to have lived in the Goryeo kingdom.[11]

With the Mongol armies came the so-called Saengmokin (Semu), or "colored-eye people", this group consisted of Muslims from Central Asia. In the Mongol social order, the Saengmokin occupied a position just below the Mongols themselves, and exerted a great deal of influence within the Yuan dynasty.

It was during this period satirical poems were composed and one of them was the Sanghwajeom, the "Colored-eye people bakery", the song tells the tale of a Korean woman who goes to a Muslim bakery to buy some dumplings.
Kangnido reflects the geographic knowledge of China during the Mongol Empire when geographical information about Western countries became available via Islamic geographers.[12]

Small-scale contact with predominantly Muslim peoples continued on and off. During the late Goryeo period, there were mosques in the capital Gaeseong, called Ye-Kung, whose literary meaning is a "ceremonial hall".[13]

One of those Central Asian immigrants to Korea originally came to Korea as an aide to a Mongol princess who had been sent to marry King Chungnyeol of Goryeo. Goryeo documents say that his original name was Samga but, after he decided to make Korea his permanent home, the king bestowed on him the Korean name of Jang Sunnyong. Jang married a Korean and became the founding ancestor of the Deoksu Jang clan. His clan produced many high officials and respected Confucian scholars over the centuries. Twenty-five generations later, around 30,000 Koreans look back to Jang Sunnyong as the grandfather of their clan: the Jang clan, with its seat at Toksu village.[2]

The same is true of the descendants of another Central Asian who settled down in Korea. A Central Asian named Seol Son fled to Korea when the Red Turban Rebellion erupted near the end of the Mongol’s Yuan dynasty. He, too, married a Korean, originating a lineage called the Gyeongju Seol that claims at least 2,000 members in Korea.[3]

Islam in Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Korea.

Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Human brains simply do not work the way you'd like them to, and 1400 years of bloody Islamic history are proof of that.

paarsurrey, you seem to take a somewhat scholarly approach to studying the scripture - that's a worthy undertaking. But MOST humans have not and will not take that approach. IF they read at all, they read the words in front of their eyeballs and they come away with general impressions. It's extremely rare for a person to read a verse, stop, go back several pages, take some notes, go forward a few pages, take more notes, think about the culture at the time and so on, to try to derive a message out of a verse.

You can claim that you have the correct analysis. But even in 2014, Muslims all over the world ARE KILLING EACH OTHER over disagreements about how to interpret the scripture.

This is "Religious Education Forum / Religious Topics / Religious Debates" so
I will discuss this way.

Regards
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
And like YEC literalist.


They cherry pick/quote mine which verses to read literal out of context :slap:
I do not know if I could agree with that or not. I have no firm position on the earth's age or specifically what was created but a plain reading of the text could suggest YEC. I, reading the bible cover to cover the first time thought it was saying that. I have seen great arguments since then against it. There may be a motive behind their scripture choice but a motive is not necessary for either view about the earth's age or creation. You can trace both interpretations back long before science had any data to contest or account for.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Then why did Muhammad do exactly the first chance he had after being given soldiers to stop tribal disagreements? Instead the robbed caravans, which was a time honored Arabic tradition. I have given the lists of his first battles. 90% were for loot against caravans. I can't even get a Muslim to respond to them. Start with the battle of Badr. It was a Caravan raid given on Muhammad's word alone and for the recorded reason that the caravans that year were especially wealthy.

Why don't you start with the life Muhammad spent at Mecca?

Regards
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
Why don't you start with the life Muhammad spent at Mecca?

Regards

Important results
You opened a market selling meat
Lost in this trade
Therefore you are trading in the other's
And new business
This is the same case with Mohammed
In Mecca announced his call did not believe people
Therefore close locality in Makkah and he went to Medina
And it announced that the sword is a means
Does this mean that Islam spread from Mecca or Medina spread
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
Why don't you start with the life Muhammad spent at Mecca?

Regards
If the issue is violence would not his first battle be the best place to start. This the tactic of a person with a bias. Finding examples where Muhammad was not violent have no power to get rid of the times he was. I can point to hundreds of logical and benevolent acts Hitler did, that won't bring the millions he killed back or make him a good person, much less a prophet. Besides we already did this misdirection thing before and I gave evidence he was violent in Mecca as well. I swear in six months I can't get a single Muslim to deal with juts Muhammad's first few battles. They will respond with anything and everything. The one thing I know they won't do is respond to what I posted.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
If the issue is violence would not his first battle be the best place to start. This the tactic of a person with a bias. Finding examples where Muhammad was not violent have no power to get rid of the times he was. I can point to hundreds of logical and benevolent acts Hitler did, that won't bring the millions he killed back or make him a good person, much less a prophet. Besides we already did this misdirection thing before and I gave evidence he was violent in Mecca as well. I swear in six months I can't get a single Muslim to deal with juts Muhammad's first few battles. They will respond with anything and everything. The one thing I know they won't do is respond to what I posted.

I don't agree with you.

Regards
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
I respect everybody.

Regards

paarsurrey, I respect everybody too! Hooray! But while I agree that people deserve respect, I do NOT believe that ideas do.

Science teaches us that ALL ideas - even religious ideas - should be open to debate and criticism.
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
Was Islam spread by the sword?

No.

For example:

Spread of Islam in Korea: [2]

In addition to fewer than 30,000 indigenous Korean Muslims, are South Asian, Middle Eastern (i.e. Iraqi), Indonesianand Malaysian immigrants in South Korea, the majority of whom are Muslims. They have been guest workers since the 1990s, taking the total Muslim population in the country to around 35,000.[1]

Early history[edit]

Goryeo kingdom[edit]

According to local Korean accounts, Muslims arrived in the peninsula in the year 1024 in the Goryeo kingdom, a group of some 100 Muslims, including Hasan Raza, came in September of the 15th year of Hyeonjong of Goryeo and another group of 100 Muslim merchants came the following year.[10]

Trading relations between the Islamic world and the Korean peninsula continued with the succeeding Goryeo kingdom through to the 15th century. As a result, a number of Muslim traders from the Near East and Central Asia settled down in Korea and established families there. Some Muslim Hui people from China also appear to have lived in the Goryeo kingdom.[11]

With the Mongol armies came the so-called Saengmokin (Semu), or "colored-eye people", this group consisted of Muslims from Central Asia. In the Mongol social order, the Saengmokin occupied a position just below the Mongols themselves, and exerted a great deal of influence within the Yuan dynasty.

It was during this period satirical poems were composed and one of them was the Sanghwajeom, the "Colored-eye people bakery", the song tells the tale of a Korean woman who goes to a Muslim bakery to buy some dumplings.
Kangnido reflects the geographic knowledge of China during the Mongol Empire when geographical information about Western countries became available via Islamic geographers.[12]

Small-scale contact with predominantly Muslim peoples continued on and off. During the late Goryeo period, there were mosques in the capital Gaeseong, called Ye-Kung, whose literary meaning is a "ceremonial hall".[13]

One of those Central Asian immigrants to Korea originally came to Korea as an aide to a Mongol princess who had been sent to marry King Chungnyeol of Goryeo. Goryeo documents say that his original name was Samga but, after he decided to make Korea his permanent home, the king bestowed on him the Korean name of Jang Sunnyong. Jang married a Korean and became the founding ancestor of the Deoksu Jang clan. His clan produced many high officials and respected Confucian scholars over the centuries. Twenty-five generations later, around 30,000 Koreans look back to Jang Sunnyong as the grandfather of their clan: the Jang clan, with its seat at Toksu village.[2]

The same is true of the descendants of another Central Asian who settled down in Korea. A Central Asian named Seol Son fled to Korea when the Red Turban Rebellion erupted near the end of the Mongol’s Yuan dynasty. He, too, married a Korean, originating a lineage called the Gyeongju Seol that claims at least 2,000 members in Korea.[3]

Islam in Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Korea.

Regards
If random stats about random nations at random times would convince anyone would you not think the first dozen would be enough?
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Was Islam spread by the sword?

No.

For example:

Spread of Islam in Korea: [3]

In addition to fewer than 30,000 indigenous Korean Muslims, are South Asian, Middle Eastern (i.e. Iraqi), Indonesianand Malaysian immigrants in South Korea, the majority of whom are Muslims. They have been guest workers since the 1990s, taking the total Muslim population in the country to around 35,000.[1]

Early history[edit]

Soju[edit]

Soju was first distilled around the 13th century, during the Mongol invasions of Korea. The Mongols had acquired the technique of distilling Arak from the Muslim World[14] during their invasion of Central Asia and the Middle East around 1256, it was subsequently introduced to Koreans and distilleries were set up around the city of Kaesong. Indeed, in the area surrounding Kaesong, Soju is known as Arak-ju(hangul: 아락주).[15]

Joseon Dynasty[edit]
Study of the Huihui Lifa[edit]

In the early Joseon period, the Islamic calendar served as a basis for calendar reform owing to its superior accuracy over the existing Chinese-based calendars.[3] A Korean translation of the Huihui Lifa, a text combining Chinese astronomy with Islamic astronomy works of Jamal ad-Din (astronomer), was studied in Korea under the Joseon Dynasty during the time of Sejong in the 15th century.[16] The tradition of Chinese-Islamic astronomy survived in Korea up until the early 19th century.[17]

Decree against the Huihui (Korean Muslim community) community[edit]
In the year 1427 Sejong ordered a decree against the Huihui (Korean Muslim community) community that had had special status and stipends since the Yuan dynasty. The Huihui (Korean Muslim community) community were forced to abandon their headgear, to close down their "ceremonial hall" (Mosque) and worship like everyone else. No further mention of Muslims exist during the era of the Joseon.[18]

Later periods[edit]

Islam was practically non-existent in Korea by the 16th century and was re-introduced in the 20th century. It is believed that many of the religious practices and teachings did not survive.[3] However, in the 19th century, Korean settlers in Manchuria came into contact with Islam once again; some of these became the first Korean Muslims in modern times.[19]

Islam in Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Korea.

Regards
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
Was Islam spread by the sword?

No.

For example:

Spread of Islam in Korea: [3]

In addition to fewer than 30,000 indigenous Korean Muslims, are South Asian, Middle Eastern (i.e. Iraqi), Indonesianand Malaysian immigrants in South Korea, the majority of whom are Muslims. They have been guest workers since the 1990s, taking the total Muslim population in the country to around 35,000.[1]

Early history[edit]

Soju[edit]

Soju was first distilled around the 13th century, during the Mongol invasions of Korea. The Mongols had acquired the technique of distilling Arak from the Muslim World[14] during their invasion of Central Asia and the Middle East around 1256, it was subsequently introduced to Koreans and distilleries were set up around the city of Kaesong. Indeed, in the area surrounding Kaesong, Soju is known as Arak-ju(hangul: 아락주).[15]

Joseon Dynasty[edit]
Study of the Huihui Lifa[edit]

In the early Joseon period, the Islamic calendar served as a basis for calendar reform owing to its superior accuracy over the existing Chinese-based calendars.[3] A Korean translation of the Huihui Lifa, a text combining Chinese astronomy with Islamic astronomy works of Jamal ad-Din (astronomer), was studied in Korea under the Joseon Dynasty during the time of Sejong in the 15th century.[16] The tradition of Chinese-Islamic astronomy survived in Korea up until the early 19th century.[17]

Decree against the Huihui (Korean Muslim community) community[edit]
In the year 1427 Sejong ordered a decree against the Huihui (Korean Muslim community) community that had had special status and stipends since the Yuan dynasty. The Huihui (Korean Muslim community) community were forced to abandon their headgear, to close down their "ceremonial hall" (Mosque) and worship like everyone else. No further mention of Muslims exist during the era of the Joseon.[18]

Later periods[edit]

Islam was practically non-existent in Korea by the 16th century and was re-introduced in the 20th century. It is believed that many of the religious practices and teachings did not survive.[3] However, in the 19th century, Korean settlers in Manchuria came into contact with Islam once again; some of these became the first Korean Muslims in modern times.[19]

Islam in Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Korea.

Regards
I guess the first two dozen weren't enough. What do you think the magic number is?
 

outhouse

Atheistically
re-introduced in the 20th century

Maybe one would have to have an adult conversation with honesty

To realize islam re-introduced in the 20th century HAS NOTHING TO DO with how the religion was spread when it started.


Intellect is required here to some extent.
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
I can see that point... How about "some initial respect is granted, but it can be eroded" ?
I can give anyone initial decency and courtesy. I do not even think it possible I can respect without merit. Respect is a conjunction. Respect for something is required.
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
its like beating a dead horse with you - er - ice horse - ahem.

I give up - I gave you links - I gave you recommendations - had you spent your time reading those, you'd not be here regurgitating the same tired nonsense.

I'm really sorry to have wasted my time with you.

Oh well, dead horse is a dead horse, no matter how cool he thinks himself to be.

Best,

Scimi

Talk off-topic and inappropriate
Islam is the sword
All the links provided by the pious
All of Islam is to talk your Prophet
Who said I have orders to fight with the people
All of Islam is in no fighting
They fought who don't they believe in God and the last day of the Jews and Christians
Do you want to tell him that the religion of Islam is the religion of love
No-start your religion is a religion of war and fighting and bloodshed
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
Then why did Muhammad do exactly that the first chance he had after being given soldiers to stop tribal disagreements? Instead the robbed caravans, which was a time honored Arabic tradition. I have given the lists of his first battles. 90% were for loot against caravans. I can't even get a Muslim to respond to them. Start with the battle of Badr. It was a Caravan raid given on Muhammad's word alone and for the recorded reason that the caravans that year were especially wealthy.
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العربية

الترجمة
By their fruits you will know them
So learned Christ
When we want to learn about ideas waladiolgiat see results
The fruits of Islam bloodshed and looting and theft, hate and the pious and sexual pleasures
To this day
The most recent series of bloody Islamic in the Iraqi city of Mosul
Arab proverb says
If the House click on tambourine
The people so home dancing
If Muhammad is the leader of the wars of plunder and booty
The followers of thieves
 
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