Was Muhammad a good man?

[Assad91]

You can continue believing Aisha was not 6 and 9 and ignore and reject the mountain of evidence from Sahih hadiths.

Why do you make it sound like there is a lot of evidence? And why do you think its reliable? Because there is plenty of other hadiths that indicate different, meaning something is off. So what reason do you declare the other hadiths to be weak and this hadith to not be?

 

[Sha'irullah]

Namaste,

What if it is, Sterling-ji? Oh, the horror!

M.V.

I believe many people fail to realize that the Qur'an only consists of 30-40% of what Muslims believe. The rest is outsourced by other texts and doctrine.

 

[Monotheist 101]

This thread is still going ey?

My position on Aisha's marriage..there is no way to be certain..

Maybe the original scribe left the number 1 out in a rush..and its actually 16 or 19..Allah knows best.. I dont see it as having influence on how old I view a minor to be..Personally I dont think Muslims are just waiting to jump on minors tho...maybe in Afghanistan..but then again they have this thing called Bachey Bazi, a form of pedophilia where they buy little boys from their parents and train them as dancers..not Islamic at all.. was actually banned by the Taleban when they came to power..Unfortunately since the US invasion of Afghanistan it has resurfaced...

Islam might actually be preventing pedophilia rather than promoting it

 

[Xaseui]

Many Hadiths say the contrary too. Did you read his post at all? Maybe people just want it to be like this to make Islam look bad. :ignore:

Also, some people actually use common sense and do their own research and form their own opinion. In the Quran it is mentioned over and over that Allah has given us intellect and to gain knowledge. Over-relying on scholars isn't going to accomplish this at all. Plus, they might be biased in one way or another.

As I said there's no direct evidence from Hadiths that mentions her age anything other than 6 and 9.
You cant challenge something that has more evidence for it (Sahih hadiths) and also where Islamic scholars agree with those hadiths.

If you're a Muslim woman, tell me why you continue to be so even though Quran 4:34 asks a man to beat his wife for disobedience. Multiple translators cant be wrong. A book that asks Muslims to cut off a thief's hands and feet (5:38) can easily ask a man to beat his wife for disobedience.

 

[Assad91]

As I said there's no direct evidence from Hadiths that mentions her age anything other than 6 and 9.
You cant challenge something that has more evidence for it (Sahih hadiths) and also where Islamic scholars agree with those hadiths.

.

And yet there are many other hadiths that indicate otherwise and therefore contradict the hadiths o 6/9.

So which ones are unathentic, and why?!?!?

 

[YmirGF]

This thread is still going ey?

My position on Aisha's marriage..there is no way to be certain..

Maybe the original scribe left the number 1 out in a rush..and its actually 16 or 19..Allah knows best.. I dont see it as having influence on how old I view a minor to be..Personally I dont think Muslims are just waiting to jump on minors tho...maybe in Afghanistan..but then again they have this thing called Bachey Bazi, a form of pedophilia where they buy little boys from their parents and train them as dancers..not Islamic at all.. was actually banned by the Taleban when they came to power..Unfortunately since the US invasion of Afghanistan it has resurfaced...

Islam might actually be preventing pedophilia rather than promoting it

You make a good point here actually, Mono. I remember reading that the Taliban leadership issued a fatwa telling their fellow "freedom fighters" that it was un-Islamic to take boys back to their tents for the nights. The point is that the practice is so widespread that a fatwa had to be ordered since isolated incidents could be handled far differently. It's a sad practice really, but an unintended result of separating the sexes. What is a man to do when deprived of his beloved goat on the long nights in the mountain passes and caves?

 

[YmirGF]

And yet there are many other hadiths that indicate otherwise and therefore contradict the hadiths o 6/9.

So which ones are unathentic, and why?!?!?

And round and round it goes...

 

[1robin]

How do you figure a Native American can't possibly be a bigot?

That was a comment about victimization. American natives are usually considered the victims not those that victimize. I however would argue the opposite in many cases but that comment was made on the common ground of popular perception. In general the Indians are considered the victims of bigotry not the proponents of it.

 

[1robin]

Except that it's a nonsensical number and the percentage is nowhere near 80%... You're exaggerating the statistics to try and make profiling look like a ridiculous claim. Blacks are 39.4% of the prison population...

Since it will not make any significant difference I am not even going to contend your numbers beyond adding a few.

The incarceration rate for African-Americans is about 3,074 per 100,000 residents, which is more than six times as high as the national average. Incarceration rate for African-Americans now six times the national average ? RT USA


If you do not think that six times the normal rate causes astronomical scrutiny concerning why they were arrested you are fooling your self. There is no way the NAACP, Sharpton, Jackson, and Farrakhan are not demanding the race relation officers in every precinct make doubly sure there is no targeting of blacks. In fact I would say all the scrutiny has led to less arrests in the black community per crime that in the White community. In politics the pendulum always swings to far to either side. In the 40's it was too far in the White favoritism direction now it is the exact opposite and those who complain racism is still one sided against minorities are deluded. In a thousands way blacks have less scrutiny that whites these days. Let's drop the race thing.

 

[1robin]

There's no such thing as "racial immunity"... Anyone is capable of bigotry.

However only one side in most circumstances is victimized.

 

[1robin]

Marijuana arrests more likely for African Americans
Black Americans Ten Times More Likely to be Incarcerated For Drug Use Than Whites
Blacks Found to Be 3.3 Times More Likely to Be Arrested for Marijuana Possession Than Whites in Michigan, Despite Equal Usage Rates | American Civil Liberties Union
In Kentucky, Black People Found to Be Six Times More Likely to Be Arrested for Marijuana Possession Than White People, Despite Equal Usage Rates | American Civil Liberties Union
In Lousiana, Black People More Than Three Times Likely to Be Arrested for Marijuana Possession Than White People, Despite Equal Usage Rates | American Civil Liberties Union

If your quoting the ACLU you obviously do not care about truth and facts. I have already addressed this issue and am hoping we can drop racism and get back to Muhammad.

 

[1robin]

I believe many people fail to realize that the Qur'an only consists of 30-40% of what Muslims believe. The rest is outsourced by other texts and doctrine.

What does this mean? Islam only uses 30-40% of the Quran on an individual basis or that the Quran is only 30-40% of what they use to live by? If the later what else do they use?

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Pure nonsense... Now I'm not even sure you actually believe half the stuff you say. Denying racial profiling is like denying climate change. I'll drop it for now and let you get back to Muhammad, but wow... Just wow...

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

What does this mean? Islam only uses 30-40% of the Quran on an individual basis or that the Quran is only 30-40% of what they use to live by? If the later what else do they use?

There are a large collection of hadiths that are used to teach a lot more often than the Qu'ran is. For someone that knows so much about Islam and its teachings, I figured you would know that:sarcastic...

 

[1robin]

Pure nonsense... Now I'm not even sure you actually believe half the stuff you say. Denying racial profiling is like denying climate change. I'll drop it for now and let you get back to Muhammad, but wow... Just wow...

You seem inseparable from claiming victimhood. For some reason it is very important for you that you believe it has caused the vastly higher arrests of African Americans. Is that racially motivated? Are you a minority? I will tell you one thing. I was in the military and traveled the US quite a bit and was a technician in federal court rooms which meant I traveled to at least half of the big cities. The reason you could not walk down certain streets in every large city in the US and come out alive had nothing to do with racial targeting by police. It had to do with the social breakdown that produced a reliance on violence (tribal society) and intolerance of those outside the tribe. That could not be caused by targeting. If anything the affirmative actions, NAACPs, and a million decisions like the one that liberal hack Sotamayor made before she was promoted, (her record merits firing but her race apparently demanded promotion instead) even though her decisions in lower courts had been overturned more than 40% of the time. There was a white but slightly handicapped (Dyslexia) firefighter who at his own expenses paid tutors to take the officers exam. He scored the highest but there was no African Americans in the top five to be promoted so she threw the whole test out. The pendulum has swung past equilibrium into the African favoritism direction. In general their problems are self caused not caused by victimization. I realize I violated my own request concerning stopping the racial debate but yelling persecution as an excuse just frustrates me. You can't fix a problem you won't admit exists. It's destruction by self delusion. 300,000 White Christians died to free African Americans, their freedom was instituted by White politicians (mostly republicans), and they currently have advantages I do not. What more can be asked? Since I made another race posts you are free to do so as well. That's only fair but I do wish to get back to Muhammad.

 

[1robin]

There are a large collection of hadiths that are used to teach a lot more often than the Qu'ran is. For someone that knows so much about Islam and its teachings, I figured you would know that:sarcastic...

I know those text very well, the thing I did not know was what that statement posted by ANOTHER person meant as he used it. Unless you are him and have two accounts I do not think you should have posted what he meant.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

I know those text very well, the thing I did not know was what that statement posted by ANOTHER person meant as he used it. Unless you are him and have two accounts I do not think you should have posted what he meant.

It's pretty obvious what he meant just by reading it...

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

You seem inseparable from claiming victimhood. For some reason it is very important for you that you believe it has caused the vastly higher arrests of African Americans. Is that racially motivated? Are you a minority? I will tell you one thing. I was in the military and traveled the US quite a bit and was a technician in federal court rooms which meant I traveled to at least half of the big cities. The reason you could not walk down certain streets in every large city in the US and come out alive had nothing to do with racial targeting by police. It had to do with the social breakdown that produced a reliance on violence (tribal society) and intolerance of those outside the tribe. That could not be caused by targeting. If anything the affirmative actions, NAACPs, and a million decisions like the one that liberal hack Sotamayor made before she was promoted, (her record merits firing but her race apparently demanded promotion instead) even though her decisions in lower courts had been overturned more than 40% of the time. There was a white but slightly handicapped (Dyslexia) firefighter who at his own expenses paid tutors to take the officers exam. He scored the highest but there was no African Americans in the top five to be promoted so she threw the whole test out. The pendulum has swung past equilibrium into the African favoritism direction. In general their problems are self caused not caused by victimization. I realize I violated my own request concerning stopping the racial debate but yelling persecution as an excuse just frustrates me. You can't fix a problem you won't admit exists. It's destruction by self delusion. 300,000 White Christians died to free African Americans, their freedom was instituted by White politicians (mostly republicans), and they currently have advantages I do not. What more can be asked? Since I made another race posts you are free to do so as well. That's only fair but I do wish to get back to Muhammad.

I'll start another thread related to racial profiling and you're more than welcome to contribute to it. The last things I'll say in response on this thread are:
Yes, I am a minority, and have experienced racial profiling firsthand. I'm not trying to play the victim, merely stating the fact that racial profiling does in fact exist and is extremely prevalent in American police forces.

I do agree with you that the race card gets played excessively in the employment market, but that has no bearing on the truth of racial targeting by police.

You claim to be a Native American, yet say that black people have advantages you don't. As a federally registered Native, I know Natives get all the same affirmative action benefits any other ethnic minority group does. We also get benefits that others don't.

I would respond to the rest of your post, but that would only further derail this one. If you wish to discuss this issue further with me, do it in this thread:

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...acial-profiling-arrest-rates.html#post3426991

 

[1robin]

It's pretty obvious what he meant just by reading it...

Maybe so and your evaluation is probably correct but unlike many I wish to clarify before launching into a rebuttal or agreement. Most Muslims would not agree with his percentages though.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Maybe so and your evaluation is probably correct but unlike many I wish to clarify before launching into a rebuttal or agreement. Most Muslims would not agree with his percentages though.

I wouldn't agree with any percentage either; that's not really something one can apply a number too, but the point stands. The Qu'ran is far from the only teaching tool used in Islam, and is not used as often as the hadiths.