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Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

K

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
Pegg said:
If salvation is being reconciled to God, then Yes. Of course. And the onus is on me to keep it that way.
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Agree! :)

You said, "If salvation is being reconciled to God..." In your opinion, what does being saved mean? Are you saved according to your own definition?

Do you see salvation, in the Scriptures, written in the past, present and future tenses?
 
D

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
savagewind said:
No man is able to count them is a hint that you need not know them personally. I have concluded (though I can change my mind) that 144,000 picture all who are responsible for God's Word. They are not all Christians. In fact, if I am correct, most of them are of Israel and lived serving God before Jesus Christ.
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I totally agree. How can Moses, David, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Solomon, Elijah, Elisha and so on, not be worthy of heaven? As the WT claims. The GB is going to heaven, but not the prophets of old.
 
Pegg

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
katiemygirl said:
Agree! :)

You said, "If salvation is being reconciled to God..." In your opinion, what does being saved mean? Are you saved according to your own definition?

Do you see salvation, in the Scriptures, written in the past, present and future tenses?
Click to expand...

well to me, salvation comes later. Salvation is from many things including death and sin. Right now, im still a sinner and still make mistakes. I'm still living in a world where injustice and wickedness abound, i still get sick and may die of disease or accident...so im not saved from any of that yet.

In the world to come, there will be salvation from all of the above. Its what the scriptures call 'the real life' in 1Timothy 6:18 Tell them to work at good, to be rich in fine works, to be generous,* ready to share,+ 19 safely treasuring up for themselves a fine foundation for the future,+ so that they may get a firm hold on the real life

If Im among the great crowd who survive Gods judgement on this wicked world, only then will be able to say with certainty that i have been saved.
 
savagewind

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
djhwoodwerks said:
What is your take on this about the 144,000?

Rev 14:3-4 (ESVST) . 4 It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins.
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It might be translated wrong.

It might say that they are not defiled by their wife. They are chaste in a spiritual sense and it is related to a wife. It means they are led solely by God's Spirit. Not even being one flesh with a wife does lead them astray.

The word virgin might have been changed from a word that means for virginity. They are preaching for oneness in Christ. Let God alone rule is what they are all for.

They are all for chastity with God. Jesus is for making chaste.
 
Pegg

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
djhwoodwerks said:
I totally agree. How can Moses, David, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Solomon, Elijah, Elisha and so on, not be worthy of heaven? As the WT claims. The GB is going to heaven, but not the prophets of old.
Click to expand...

Its actually the Apostles who first held this view....

Acts 2:29 “Men, brothers, it is permissible to speak with freeness of speech to you about the family head David, that he died and was buried,+ and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Because he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn tohim with an oath that he would seat one of his offspring* on his throne,+ 31 he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he forsaken in the Grave* nor did his flesh see corruption.*+ 32 God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses.+ 33 Therefore, because he was exalted to the right hand of God+ and received the promised holy spirit fromthe Father,+ he has poured out what you see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘Jehovah* said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand 35 until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”

Why do you think the scriptures make this statement about King David?
 
savagewind

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Rev 14:3-4 (ESVST) . 4 It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins.

144,000 are they who have not been defiled even by a wife, for they are for spiritual chastity.
 
D

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Pegg said:
If Im among the great crowd who survive Gods judgement on this wicked world, only then will be able to say with certainty that i have been saved.
Click to expand...


Jn 3:16-18 (ESVST) . 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
 
savagewind

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Pegg said:
Its actually the Apostles who first held this view....

Acts 2:29 “Men, brothers, it is permissible to speak with freeness of speech to you about the family head David, that he died and was buried,+ and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Because he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn tohim with an oath that he would seat one of his offspring* on his throne,+ 31 he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he forsaken in the Grave* nor did his flesh see corruption.*+ 32 God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses.+ 33 Therefore, because he was exalted to the right hand of God+ and received the promised holy spirit fromthe Father,+ he has poured out what you see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘Jehovah* said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand 35 until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”

Why do you think the scriptures make this statement about King David?
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David had to wait for Jesus Christ to make the way open for him. When he died he did not ascend to heaven. Why not? Because the way had not yet been made.
 
savagewind

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
savagewind said:
Rev 14:3-4 (ESVST) . 4 It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins.

144,000 are they who have not been defiled even by a wife, for they are for spiritual chastity.
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This is related to Adam's defilement with Eve. It's spiritual.
 
Pegg

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
djhwoodwerks said:
Pegg, is CT Russell considered a prominent figure in the JW's?
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to some degree, yes. He put his life savings and all his energy into founding a magazine to publish bible truths. He formed bible study groups and got christians from various denominations interested in the bible and in its message. He fostered support for the preaching work among those christians and made it possible for many of them to become missionaries.
He is not viewed as our leader though... he founded the organisation and gave it what it needed to get off the ground.
 
Pegg

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
djhwoodwerks said:
Did David say that about the Lord before or after he died?
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David said it while he was alive many centuries before Christ was born. He prophesied about Jesus resurrection and it is recorded in Psalm 110. But that is not what you should be focusing on.

The focus is on Peters statement about King David 'not ascending to heaven' but is 'in his tomb to this day'

If Peter thought David went to heaven, he would not have said that David was still among them.
 
savagewind

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
djhwoodwerks said:
How did you discern that it is a spiritual symbol?
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Logic? LOL We know for a fact that theology and logic do not mix. Logical people who know math do not care what it means. I care what it means. I think I might have logical math genes. I know my daddy did.

I haven't read Rev for awhile but I suspect NONE of it is the prophecies of future events. I think it is about the spiritual relationship between heaven and earth.
 
D

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Pegg said:
to some degree, yes. He put his life savings and all his energy into founding a magazine to publish bible truths. He formed bible study groups and got christians from various denominations interested in the bible and in its message. He fostered support for the preaching work among those christians and made it possible for many of them to become missionaries.
He is not viewed as our leader though... he founded the organisation and gave it what it needed to get off the ground.
Click to expand...


*** jv chap. 28 p. 626 Testing and Sifting From Within ***
Many who were sifted out at that time clung to the view that a single individual, Charles Taze Russell, was the “faithful and wise servant” foretold by Jesus at Matthew 24:45-47 (KJ), which servant would distribute spiritual food to the household of faith. Particularly following his death, The Watch Tower itself set forth this view for a number of years. In view of the prominent role that Brother Russell had played, it appeared to the Bible Students of that time that this was the case.
 
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