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Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
This which I underlined? That is what I was saying and you said I was being "argumentative for the sake of argument".

You said you were saved, are saved, and will be saved. NOW you say, "WE [which includes you] can lose it". That is what I was saying. And now you agree with me??????
I told you from the get go that I did not believe in once saved always saved.

I told you the Scriptures represent salvation as a past, present and future event. I was saved. I am being saved. I will be saved. Do I need to post the verses?

At this very moment I can say with all assurance I AM SAVED. I have no plans to start walking the broad road that leads to destruction. So I can say with confidence that when Jesus comes again, I will be saved.

You were being argumentative, and it seems like you want to continue to be.

Think what you will.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Pegg, one thing I can't seem to learn from the JW website is that when you or other JW's say "death," as you did in your above statement, do you mean physical or spiritual death? I'm assuming you mean physical death.

No one is saved from physical death in this life, nor was such a thing promised by Jehovah. We all die!

To me, salvation means saved from spiritual death, which is separation from God. We can be spiritually dead in this life (as the majority of people are), and sin is what causes that separation. We can be made alive, forgiven, regenerated and saved, by believing Jesus is the Son of God NOW.

In Titus 3, Paul wrote,
3 At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

Even though we have not yet realized the full benefits of salvation yet (eternal life) we are saved in the sense that 1. We have been washed, cleansed of our sins, through the washing of rebirth (born again), and 2. we have been renewed by the Holy Spirit (a new creation).

Through our faith in Christ, we are reconciled back to God by the blood of Jesus. We must continue to work out our salvation. In other words, we can lose it.


Yes, it is in the world to come, that we will never die. Physical death, sickness and all the misery of this world will be no more. This is why we're told not to store our treasures up on this earth, but in heaven, which is pretty much the same as what Paul wrote to Timothy in the verse you cited above.

I am not letting you off easy this time. Do you not say a person CAN LOSE his salvation? You are certain YOU won't lose YOUR salvation. What makes you better than the people who CAN lose it?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
There are people who can lose their salvation. Katiemygirl can't or won't lose her salvation. That is two different kinds of people.

Now it has been twice that you have publically chastised me. What are you going to do?

Let me remind you of something, please.

Be not forsaking the gathering together.....
 

Mountain_Climber

Active Member
Its actually the Apostles who first held this view....

Acts 2:29 “Men, brothers, it is permissible to speak with freeness of speech to you about the family head David, that he died and was buried,+ and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Because he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn tohim with an oath that he would seat one of his offspring* on his throne,+ 31 he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he forsaken in the Grave* nor did his flesh see corruption.*+ 32 God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses.+ 33 Therefore, because he was exalted to the right hand of God+ and received the promised holy spirit fromthe Father,+ he has poured out what you see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘Jehovah* said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand 35 until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”

Why do you think the scriptures make this statement about King David?
His thought pertains directly and only to the position of highest authority granted Jesus as God's true chosen one. And I mean ONE. For no salvation exists for anyone but in that ONE.

Acts 2:36 "Therefore, let all the house of Israel know for a certainty that God made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you executed on a stake.”
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
It look's that way when you rely on a spirit medium for the translation of the NWT. The Greek interlinear Bible say's God, not a God. Unless you use the version published by the Watchtower, then it will. Just like Johannes Grebers translation.


Actually one only need to know what Jesus and his real teachers taught in the nt to know 100% for sure a small g belongs in the last line--a few different translations from way before the NWT had a small g or said was divine --but did not call Jesus THE God.

Jesus taught--John 20:17, Rev 3:12--Paul taught--2Cor 1:3, 1Cor 8:6, 1Cor 15:24-28-- Peter-1Peter 1:3---John at Rev 1:6--- all 100% in agreement--Jesus has a God--his Father--- do you believe God has a God?

Jesus taught--- John 17:1-6,26---- he clearly said--The one( Father) who sent him is-THE ONLY TRUE GOD--- verse 6 = Jehovah--26 = Jehovah. ( YHVH) in Hebrew
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Actually one only need to know what Jesus and his real teachers taught in the nt to know 100% for sure a small g belongs in the last line--a few different translations from way before the NWT had a small g or said was divine --but did not call Jesus THE God.

If Jesus is just "A god" doesn't that make Him a false god? T
 

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
It all correlates to the descriptions given in the OT.

So, yes.
I would say it's how YOU interpret the Scriptures, but if you were to ask ten other people how they interpret those same Scriptures, they would each tell you something different. This is why I would say it's your opinion.

I truly think the best any of us can do is speculate about end times as the majority of the language is symbolic.

We are studying Revelation on Wednesday nights with our congregation. I don't much care for the study because the person presenting the study is doing so from one author's perspective. I have read several books on Revelation, and not one agrees with another. Personally, I try not to read too much into John's letter. I try to look at the overall message. I believe John wrote to christians in the first century who were undergoing persecution. His letter was one of encouragement. Be faithful unto death, and you will receive a crown of life. We know that our Lord will be the victor in the end. That should bring all faithful christians comfort then and now.

I have read Revelation many times, but I'm not willing to emphatically say this means this or that means that. I read it because God has promised to bless those who do. There are also lessons for us to learn from this letter, especially in the early chapters.

Most important to me is understanding God's will for me, and making sure I stay in a right relationship with Him. I don't concern myself with the future. I trust Him to take care of me.
 

Mountain_Climber

Active Member
I would say it's how YOU interpret the Scriptures, but if you were to ask ten other people how they interpret those same Scriptures, they would each tell you something different. This is why I would say it's your opinion.

I truly think the best any of us can do is speculate about end times as the majority of the language is symbolic.

We are studying Revelation on Wednesday nights with our congregation. I don't much care for the study because the person presenting the study is doing so from one author's perspective. I have read several books on Revelation, and not one agrees with another. Personally, I try not to read too much into John's letter. I try to look at the overall message. I believe John wrote to christians in the first century who were indergoing persecution. His letter was one of encouragement. Be faithful unto death, and you will receive a crown of life. That message carries over today.

I have read Revelation many times, but I'm not willing to emphatically say this means this or that means that. I read it because God has promised to bless those who do. There are also lessons for us to learn from this letter, especially in the early chapters.

Most important to me is understanding God's will for me, and making sure I stay in a right relationship with Him. I don't concern myself with the future. I trust He take care of me.
I would say it is how you interpret the scriptures, failing to let the two witnesses dictate what is what, so that your ideas bring the two witnesses into conflict.
 

Mountain_Climber

Active Member
Actually one only need to know what Jesus and his real teachers taught in the nt to know 100% for sure a small g belongs in the last line--a few different translations from way before the NWT had a small g or said was divine --but did not call Jesus THE God.

Jesus taught--John 20:17, Rev 3:12--Paul taught--2Cor 1:3, 1Cor 8:6, 1Cor 15:24-28-- Peter-1Peter 1:3---John at Rev 1:6--- all 100% in agreement--Jesus has a God--his Father--- do you believe God has a God?

Jesus taught--- John 17:1-6,26---- he clearly said--The one( Father) who sent him is-THE ONLY TRUE GOD--- verse 6 = Jehovah--26 = Jehovah. ( YHVH) in Hebrew
There is an alternative way to let that word remain, "God", and yet still not be declaring that Jesus himself was God. But the Word which defined Jesus' way of life in dependency upon God's Word, means that the Word definitely was God. Thus Jesus perfectly imaged the Father so that one with a bit of insight might well exclaim, "My Lord and my God!" In a figurative sense, we are what we eat. Jesus was the mirror to seeing God. The only one the world had so that they could, like peering through the rent veil of the temple, see God.
 
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katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
I would say it is how you interpret the scriptures, failing to let the two witnesses dictate what is what, so that your ideas bring the two witnesses into conflict.
So you are saying your interpretation of Scriptures having to do with end times are the only correct ones? Okay. Of course, you do realize you are probably the only one who thinks so. :)

I don't believe I understand Revelation perfectly. All I can do is speculate. Like I said, I focus on what really matters.
 

Mountain_Climber

Active Member
So you are saying your interpretation of Scriptures having to do with end times are the only correct ones? Okay. Of course, you do realize you are probably the only one who thinks so. :)

I don't believe I understand Revelation perfectly. All I can do is speculate. Like I said, I focus on what really matters.
I am saying that I don't interpret tit. I let the two witnesses do it for me.
 
I believe this is why they choose not to disclose the panel of men that wrote/translated their Bible. They say it was translated from the earliest manuscripts, but what they didn't say was, that it was based on interpretation of the earliest manuscripts "BY" Johannes Greber.

They did say this though.This is the other part from the Questions from Readers.

"■ Why, in recent years, has The Watchtower not made use of the translation by the former Catholic priest, Johannes Greber?

This translation was used occasionally in support of renderings of Matthew 27:52, 53 and John 1:1, as given in the New World Translation and other authoritative Bible versions. But as indicated in a foreword to the 1980 edition of The New Testament by Johannes Greber, this translator relied on “God’s Spirit World” to clarify for him how he should translate difficult passages. It is stated: “His wife, a medium of God’s Spiritworld was often instrumental in conveying the correct answers from God’s Messengers to Pastor Greber.” The Watchtower has deemed it improper to make use of a translation that has such a close rapport with spiritism. (Deuteronomy 18:10-12) The scholarship that forms the basis for the rendering of the above-cited texts in the New World Translation is sound and for this reason does not depend at all on Greber’s translation for authority. Nothing is lost, therefore, by ceasing to use his New Testament."


WOL w83 4/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers
 

Mountain_Climber

Active Member
Anyway, Gerber is by far not the only translator to translate it in a similar way.

I got on a side road with the idea that Moses was a god to Pharaoh and that Jesus being the promised prophet like unto Moses, it could very well mean, "a god".

But The two witnesses came to me and chastised me for saying that, though I failed to ever retract the statement from this site.

They let me know in plainly understandable terms that I was wrong. For all of John 1:1 is speaking before Jesus ever came to earth as a man, before he took the role as the prophet like unto Moses.
 
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