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Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

kjw47

Well-Known Member
God's word clearly teaches,

Luke 6:27-36 (ESVST) 27 "But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. 29 To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either. 30 Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back. 31 And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them. 32 "If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who do good to you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount. 35 But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil. 36 Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful.

I don't know any of you on here, but the way you're taught to "hate in the BIBLICAL sense", and loathe apostates, how can any of you understand this "MILK" from the word?


Since when is mortal man a reader of hearts like you are claiming? JW,s do not hate apostates, they hate what they stand for( standing in opposition to Jehovah and Jesus) Even Jesus taught --ones own family members would be their enemies( Matt 10:34-36)( spiritually) Yet we do not hate them. It crushes the hearts of all JW,s to see one fall. --We Adhere to Jesus' loving advice--Love your enemy.
Gods word teaches to punish with severity those that fall. It says do not even eat a meal with them.
Heb 12:11--1Cor 5:9-13--titus 1:13
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
So JayJayDee, if you saw someone getting raped, would you fight to help them? If a group was raping and murdering people in another country, would you want to fight to protect them? The Bible clearly justifies war, so long as it's done in self defense or protecting the innocent :) thank you very much


Did Gods people go into Sodom and Gomorrah to save the children who were being used for sex--No. Is dropping atom bombs into cities where babies, children, grandmothers, pregnant women live justified?
Would Jesus ever condone the supposed brothers in Christ standing on both sides of a war of hatred, blowing each others heads off like in the Rev war, the civil war, ww1,ww2 they did it for Adolf Hitler--the clergy prayed on both sides( one of the biggest hipocrosys the world has ever witnessed.)
How about killing 300,000 in the initial bombings going into Iraq for WMD that were not there?

1John 3:10-12---no slaughtering of one another. 1 John 3 answers--a mirror for all to peer into
It teaches who are the children of God and who are the children of the devil.

A true follower of Jesus knows --Jesus has promised---Vengeance is mine said the Lord. So by taking vengeance for self one is telling Jesus-no. that is blatent--standing in opposition to him.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Since when is mortal man a reader of hearts like you are claiming?
Jehovah's Witnesses are readers of the hearts of the governing body

JW,s do not hate apostates,
I shall agree with this.
they hate what they stand for( standing in opposition to Jehovah and Jesus)
The weirdest thing in the history of the universe is the saying that disagreeing with the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses means hating Jehovah and Jesus. I am sure some people do not think it is funny.

Even Jesus taught --ones own family members would be their enemies( Matt 10:34-36)( spiritually)
He was talking about Israel. Matthew 15:24
Yet we do not hate them.
That's right. You only act like you hate them.
It crushes the hearts of all JW,s to see one fall.
This is so sad! To disagree with JWs means a fall. I would say that Heaven does not agree.
We Adhere to Jesus' loving advice--Love your enemy.
How do you love them? You love them by recruiting them for the governing body.
Gods word teaches to punish with severity those that fall. It says do not even eat a meal with them.
Heb 12:11--1Cor 5:9-13--titus 1:13
Hebrews 12:11 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 Titus 1:13
 

JFish123

Active Member
Did Gods people go into Sodom and Gomorrah to save the children who were being used for sex--No. Is dropping atom bombs into cities where babies, children, grandmothers, pregnant women live justified?
Would Jesus ever condone the supposed brothers in Christ standing on both sides of a war of hatred, blowing each others heads off like in the Rev war, the civil war, ww1,ww2 they did it for Adolf Hitler--the clergy prayed on both sides( one of the biggest hipocrosys the world has ever witnessed.)
How about killing 300,000 in the initial bombings going into Iraq for WMD that were not there?

1John 3:10-12---no slaughtering of one another. 1 John 3 answers--a mirror for all to peer into
It teaches who are the children of God and who are the children of the devil.

A true follower of Jesus knows --Jesus has promised---Vengeance is mine said the Lord. So by taking vengeance for self one is telling Jesus-no. that is blatent--standing in opposition to him.
Wow. Just wow. So you'd let the innocent die and be raped and slaughtered doing nothing to help. I think this parable Jesus said for you and JayJayDee:
30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead.
31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side.
32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side.
33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him.
34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him.
35 The next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’
36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”
37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”
Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”
By letting people be raped and murdered, when you can help them, your showing a very Twisted view of mercy and Gods Word. You might also want to know this about the Word of God.
The Bible teaches that we have the right to self-defense, Exodus 22:2: "If the thief is caught while breaking in, and is struck so that he dies, there will be no blood guiltiness on his account." The Bible also tells us to protect the innocent, Deut. 19:10, "So innocent blood will not be shed in the midst of your land which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance, and blood guiltiness be on you." Also, see "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin," (Deut. 24:16). If we were to apply these principles to war, I would conclude that war is justifiable when it is in self-defense and/or when it is to protect the innocent. Therefore, a Christian could rightfully engage in war given those conditions.
From this we can easily conclude that going to war is not a sin. That is, if it complies with the Biblical instructions of self-defense and protection of the innocent.
Finally, notice that some soldiers approached John the Baptist and inquired about repentance. John did not tell them to stop being soldiers but to do their jobs properly, honestly.
"And some soldiers were questioning him, saying, "And what about us, what shall we do?" And he said to them, "Do not take money from anyone by force, or accuse anyone falsely, and be content with your wages," (Luke 3:14).
From all of this, we can see that going to war is not wrong in itself and that a Christian can go to war under the right circumstances.
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
Hi there, this was such a well written and heartfelt post with so much accuracy and precision that I was almost tempted to pass it by and leave you in peace, preferring not to be identified as a "Detractor" of JWs. But I felt drawn back to your post as I was reminded of my experience with JWs when I was a mere babe in Christ who had no knowledge of scripture except a very new faith in the Lord Jesus, who had saved me from a very real living hell after I called on His Name.

I'll tell ya straight, these well-meaning JW people almost destroyed my faith, throwing me into spiritual turmoil and tribulation. Having felt I had only just escaped the darkness of my life into His glorious light, the stumbling block they placed in my way saw me being thrown into outer darkness again. And how did they accomplish this? By criticising my simple faith and trust in Jesus, sowing doubt in my heart with their intellectual arguements and perverted Bible Version. The Lord had tried to warn me in a dream to stop meeting with the couple, but they seemed like such sincere and nice people and I wanted them to accept me. And I paid dearly for my disobedience, the Lord giving me another dream in which I was being accepted by them but found myself praying these words in the dream, that I later found in Scripture:

[VERSE=Psalms 23:4,ASV]Yea, thou I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; for thou art with me; Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me.[/VERSE]

I woke up crying and scared to even face the couple again, but the Lord gave me strength to face them one last time and end the meetings.

For all that seems right about the JW's, their name says it all. They are Jehovah's Witnesses, not Jesus' Witnesses. Why don't they heed the words of the Apostle John who said:

[VERSE=1 John 2:23,ASV]Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that confesseth the Son hath the Father also.[/VERSE]

Or the words of the Apostle Paul who said:

[VERSE=Romans 3:26,ASV]for the showing, [I say], of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.[/VERSE]

Or the words of Our Lord Himself who said:

[VERSE=John 10:27,ASV]My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:[/VERSE]

I trust that the Lord Jesus will have mercy on many of the JW's who do what they do, ignorant of the damage they cause to the work of Christ.

[VERSE=Romans 8:35-39,ASV][VERSENUM]35[/VERSENUM] Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

[VERSENUM]36[/VERSENUM] Even as it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

[VERSENUM]37[/VERSENUM] Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

[VERSENUM]38[/VERSENUM] For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, [VERSENUM]39[/VERSENUM] nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.[/VERSE]

A question for all Jehovah's witnesses. Who did Jesus say would raise up the temple of His body?

[VERSE=John 2:19-21,ASV][VERSENUM]19[/VERSENUM] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

[VERSENUM]20[/VERSENUM] The Jews therefore said, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou raise it up in three days?

[VERSENUM]21[/VERSENUM] But he spake of the temple of his body.[/VERSE]

[VERSE=Acts Of The Apostles 4:10-12,ASV][VERSENUM]10[/VERSENUM] be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, [even] in him doth this man stand here before you whole.

[VERSENUM]11[/VERSENUM] He is the stone which was set at nought of you the builders, which was made the head of the corner.

[VERSENUM]12[/VERSENUM] And in none other is there salvation: for neither is there any other name under heaven, that is given among men, wherein we must be saved.[/VERSE]

[VERSE=Isaiah 59:16-17,ASV][VERSENUM]16[/VERSENUM] And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his own arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it upheld him.

[VERSENUM]17[/VERSENUM] And he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and a helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a mantle.[/VERSE]

I am sorry to hear that your experience was a negative one...my own experience was nothing but positive. I went from weak to very strong, thanks to the knowledge imparted to me by my teachers. For me, the experience was nothing but exciting and joyous!

From reading your responses I can see that you are a sensitive soul....somewhat fragile emotionally. When you have a certain view of God in your mind and someone comes along and challenges that view, forcing you to step outside your comfort zone as it were, then an emotionally driven person may respond as you did. You were obviously overwhelmed.

I was ready to wipe my slate clean and start again.....but those who want to hang onto false beliefs that they find emotionally appealing will not do well in studying the Bible with JW's. All false beliefs have been eliminated from our faith. Starting fresh with a new and solid foundation, I could finally build my relationship with Jehovah...the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I do not believe that Jesus speaks to people today or gives them dreams or visions, so my personal opinion of your experience may be very different to the way you perceive it.

I believe that what the Witnesses almost "destroyed" for you, was your preference to believe what you wanted to believe.

When Jesus comes as judge, he will not be kind to people who wish to practice Christianity "their" way. (Matt 7:21-23):21-23) There is one truth and only one God......and it is not Jesus Christ. (John 17:3, 4)

I wish you well.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
Wow. Just wow. So you'd let the innocent die and be raped and slaughtered doing nothing to help. I think this parable Jesus said for you and JayJayDee:
30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead.
31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side.
32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side.
33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him.
34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him.
35 The next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’
36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”
37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”
Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”
By letting people be raped and murdered, when you can help them, your showing a very Twisted view of mercy and Gods Word. You might also want to know this about the Word of God.
The Bible teaches that we have the right to self-defense, Exodus 22:2: "If the thief is caught while breaking in, and is struck so that he dies, there will be no blood guiltiness on his account." The Bible also tells us to protect the innocent, Deut. 19:10, "So innocent blood will not be shed in the midst of your land which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance, and blood guiltiness be on you." Also, see "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin," (Deut. 24:16). If we were to apply these principles to war, I would conclude that war is justifiable when it is in self-defense and/or when it is to protect the innocent. Therefore, a Christian could rightfully engage in war given those conditions.
From this we can easily conclude that going to war is not a sin. That is, if it complies with the Biblical instructions of self-defense and protection of the innocent.
Finally, notice that some soldiers approached John the Baptist and inquired about repentance. John did not tell them to stop being soldiers but to do their jobs properly, honestly.
"And some soldiers were questioning him, saying, "And what about us, what shall we do?" And he said to them, "Do not take money from anyone by force, or accuse anyone falsely, and be content with your wages," (Luke 3:14).
From all of this, we can see that going to war is not wrong in itself and that a Christian can go to war under the right circumstances.


I didn't say if one saw someone getting hurt or something a JW wouldn't help them--what I said was totally different. Being sent to another country when they did 0 to one personally. Being sent for one purpose--slaughter of one another--did you read 1 John 3:10-12--it is forbidden. If they came to my home to attack--then that is different. or if I saw an innocent being attacked. This is who sends ones over to another country-2Peter 2:19--this is who is being killed for--there is no difference in any govt.
Did you read this--Rev 16--Rev 19:17-19--- every kingdom( govt, armies,supporters) on earth will be mislead to stand in opposition to Gods king. Why do you think that is?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Did you read this--Rev 16--Rev 19:17-19--- every kingdom( govt, armies,supporters) on earth will be mislead to stand in opposition to Gods king. Why do you think that is?
Revelation 19:19 says that kings of the earth and their armies will be gathered together to make war (or quarrel) with the one on the horse. That is what is happening. Jesus is Lord and knows the way, but they quarrel with him (symbolically because they are CLUELESS) by their keeping their sovereignty above every other pursuit. If they would listen there would be spiritual progress for the Earth, But they are for quarrelling. That is what it means. I am sure.

See "king" which comes from the root "foot". They go and the world follows. It is not just about secular leaders. It is especially about religious leaders.
 

Wharton

Active Member
Example--- Gods word clearly teaches call no man Father in a spiritual sense but certain religions use that term in the spiritual sense because they cannot even understand milk.
The GB are most certainly the fathers Jesus spoke of. Self-appointed, self-anointed fathers.
 

Wharton

Active Member
Wow. Just wow. So you'd let the innocent die and be raped and slaughtered doing nothing to help. I think this parable Jesus said for you and JayJayDee:
30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead.
31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side.
32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side.
33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him.
34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him.
35 The next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’
36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”
37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”
Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”
By letting people be raped and murdered, when you can help them, your showing a very Twisted view of mercy and Gods Word. You might also want to know this about the Word of God.
The Bible teaches that we have the right to self-defense, Exodus 22:2: "If the thief is caught while breaking in, and is struck so that he dies, there will be no blood guiltiness on his account." The Bible also tells us to protect the innocent, Deut. 19:10, "So innocent blood will not be shed in the midst of your land which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance, and blood guiltiness be on you." Also, see "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin," (Deut. 24:16). If we were to apply these principles to war, I would conclude that war is justifiable when it is in self-defense and/or when it is to protect the innocent. Therefore, a Christian could rightfully engage in war given those conditions.
From this we can easily conclude that going to war is not a sin. That is, if it complies with the Biblical instructions of self-defense and protection of the innocent.
Finally, notice that some soldiers approached John the Baptist and inquired about repentance. John did not tell them to stop being soldiers but to do their jobs properly, honestly.
"And some soldiers were questioning him, saying, "And what about us, what shall we do?" And he said to them, "Do not take money from anyone by force, or accuse anyone falsely, and be content with your wages," (Luke 3:14).
From all of this, we can see that going to war is not wrong in itself and that a Christian can go to war under the right circumstances.
The JW's need to read Joshua 10, 11 and 12 then come back and tell us all about God's problem with war.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Yet we do not hate them.

That's right. You only act like you hate them.

I couldn't help but pick up on this. It's kind of like any time I hear anyone on this forum say something hateful to someone else and then clarify that they're just saying it "in love." Do people really think that other people are so stupid that they can't tell the difference between hate and love? :confused:
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I couldn't help but pick up on this. It's kind of like any time I hear anyone on this forum say something hateful to someone else and then clarify that they're just saying it "in love." Do people really think that other people are so stupid that they can't tell the difference between hate and love? :confused:
It's tough love. May you be extinguished until you come around to my way of thinking; their brand of love. LOL. Isn't it funny?
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
John 14:25-26 was spoken to the anointed teachers.

And how do you know that? Isn't that just the GB opinion?

Yes all can have HS-- for strength and reminders

For strength and reminders???

Jn 14:25-26 (ESVST) . 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

I think I understand the way the GB thinks. Jesus sent 84 men out to preach the Gospel, and because He told them to preach the Gospel that means He was telling "EVERYONE" to preach the Gospel. But He gave the 84 men power and authority over demons and power to heal, but they are the only ones who get that power and authority. If the GB would teach that when Jesus sends His disciples out into the world He empowers them, they would have no control over the JW's. So the GB keeps them in the dark and train them to believe they are stupid and can't understand the Bible so they won't figure it out for themselves and leave with their money.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
When Jesus comes as judge, he will not be kind to people who wish to practice Christianity "their" way.

LMBO!! Everyone practices Christianity their way?? You chose to practice yours with the many errors of the GB. I choose to practice mine with the different resources I use. I know that comment was meant for everyone except the JW's. You don't practice the way you want do you? Well, actually you don't. You have to do what the GB tells you to do, you don't have the freedom and God given right to "INDEPENDANT THINKING".
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
He will not return as flesh and blood, He will return with the body given to him at His resurrection, which He displayed to His disciples. He looked and felt human, yet He was able to walk through walls and appear and disappear instantaneously. There is no human term to accurately describe it. I like to think of it as a "hybrid" body fit for both realms--heaven and earth.

This may sound strange, but you know we already had hybrids on earth and God saw fit to remove them. They didnt belong here.

Half angel/half man was not approved by God in the days of Noah and he saw to it that they were all removed from the earth.


If He left His Father temporarily to come to earth once, why should it be a problem for Him to do it again? Christ will actually pave the way for the Father to be able to dwell in a sinless environment.

After Christ's 1,000 reign with His saints and the culmination of his judgment of all humans, all authority and power will be abolished. The earth and its atmosphere will be transformed to something new (Rev 21:1). The New Jerusalem will descend from heaven and make its way to the new earth (Rev 21:2-3) After which Christ will deliver the kingdom to the Father (1 Co 15:24) and The Father Himself will dwell with the hybrid men/spirit beings in the New Jerusalem:

Rev 21:2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.



Do you think its a
physical city?... something like the original Jerusalem where people could walk its streets and buy coffee in its street cafes?



 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Of course there are some horrible governments, because there are some horrible people. I still cannot fathom a world with no governments, no laws, no way to protect the country's citizens, no services or benefits for anyone. Eventually, of course, such a place will exist, but meanwhile, people with varying beliefs and standards have to co-exist and I see no way for that to happen except through human cooperation, which ultimately involves the use of governments. Sorry, Pegg, but I just can't go along with the idea that this is something God doesn't want. This is something on which we will never agree.

Well to be clear, we dont advocate for no government at all. We advocate for Gods Government and that is precisely why we dont vote at elections, join the armed forces or get involved with the running of countries as politicians.

We are law abiding citizens because we submit to Gods Government and his standards and laws are the ones we abide by. Just imagine if everyone lived by the law 'you must love your neighbor as yourself'

Do you think anyone would suffer from crime or violence if everyone applied that law?
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
We're told to pray for our leaders. We also know that God appoints leaders over kingdoms to carry out His purposes.

You are absolutely correct to include policemen, firemen, and other such entities in our government. Without them, what would our world be like?

Without government, , there would be anarchy. Surely, anarchy was never part of God's plan.

I understand and respect anyone's right to not take up arms against enemies, but refusing to vote is another story.

Our votes can and do change society. I cannot imagine not voting. Many fought and died for me to have that privilege.

Ok, so lets think about it.

If you saw on your election paper all the names of the representatives, then right at the bottom you saw the name "Jesus Christ"

Who would you choose to vote for?
 

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
Ok, so lets think about it.

If you saw on your election paper all the names of the representatives, then right at the bottom you saw the name "Jesus Christ"

Who would you choose to vote for?

I would know he was an impostor. I would vote for the person who best represented my beliefs.

Please address my last post to you.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
We are law abiding citizens because we submit to Gods Government and his standards and laws are the ones we abide by. Just imagine if everyone lived by the law 'you must love your neighbor as yourself'
Without getting invovled in the rest of your discussion which I am not following, I just want to point out that this is a very weak argument. Being a perfectly law abiding citizen of the government of Turkey, does not make one a law abiding citizen to the laws of America.
Being a law abiding citizen in your "G-d's Government" , does not automatically extend to the quality of your citizenship in the US.
 
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