We die because of Adam and Eve?: How crazy!

[ecman51`]

Why didn't God give each and every one of us the same test? I would have obeyed God, from a simple logic standpoint: Since he was the one who created us, it would be wise to obey him.

Nobody back then when they wrote the Bible ever thought, with this Adam and Eve 'story', and the reason for why we die, we would ever question such an account ? They never thought that people would never question why not only man dies, but everything organic, that does not even understand good and evil, also dies? That they really thought we would believe that if we did not sin, we would never die and could not be killed - even if an asteroid came and hit us on the head?

 

[EtuMalku]

Nobody back then when they wrote the Bible ever thought, with this Adam and Eve 'story'

. . . now I thought Adam & Eve WERE the first two? Oh well.

In any case . . . it's not a matter of "the reason why we die" it's a matter of ENLIGHTENMENT towards two paths, and each and every one of us has this Freedom of Will. It is just this Freedom of Will that the Abrahamic god hoped to hide from you, fortunately there was an Angel . . . Lucifer, who didn't like the rules.

Lucifer, the original Serpent, represents the divine force of creation that is able to carry out the idea of creation. (Egyptian God Set)
Lucifer sinks down to man's level and awakens the power of creation and the sexual energy in man. Thus, man can reach the knowledge which was previously only accessible to God.

 

[Meow Mix]

I, though I'm an atheist, interpret the tale of Adam and Eve as indicating that people will most likely do wrong at least a few times in their lives.

I'm pretty sure we've all told that lie that didn't have to be told, we've done something out of self-interest that harmed someone else even indirectly... I think it's a stretch of the imagination to say that anyone is completely innocent of any sort of wrongdoing.

So, in my interpretation of the story, Adam and Eve simply represent all of humanity doing that one thing that they regret later on.

As a literal story though I think it's ridiculous. Why does God need a forbidden tree? He doesn't... placing it there can be one thing and one thing only: entrapment. Furthermore, in the literal story Adam and Eve were innocent; they ostensibly had no knowledge to differentiate good from evil.

Well, "deception" is evil. A person who can't tell good from evil doesn't know what "deception" is. This is much like a small child doesn't know that when a stranger says to get in the car with him that he's "deceiving" them until you TEACH the child what deception is in order to protect them.

Ostensibly, in the literal story, Adam and Eve were deceived by a serpent and had no means by which to understand that when the serpent said they could eat the fruit that such was a deception. Being without the means to understand it was deception, OF COURSE they're going to eat the fruit: if you lie to a person who doesn't understand lies, then in their mind what you say to them must be true because you said it. (Has anyone ever seen Galaxy Quest? There's a race of aliens that don't know what lies are, which the antagonist uses to his advantage by lying to them and they inevitably always believe his lies as true).

Some argue, "But God said clearly not to eat from the tree." That doesn't matter though. The serpent saying they *can* eat from the tree -- to a person who doesn't understand lies -- overrides the original command. It's just like if you tell your children it's not okay to get into a stranger's car, but they don't know what a lie is, and a stranger tells them "I know your parents said not to get into a stranger's car but I'm telling you it's okay." Some kids will believe that if they aren't familiar with what deception is.

So, long winded rant over... creating beings ignorant of lies and then allowing a liar to manipulate them knowingly (omnisciently) is worse than entrapment, it's a setup. The one thing Adam and Eve required to protect themselves against deception was the one thing that they were forbidden to do. That is, I believe, a true catch-22. It definitely raises a lot of questions about the literal interpretation of the Genesis story.

 

[darkendless]

As an atheist interpret that story as: People are stupid and cannot control themselves. But you must control yourself or you will be punished eternally because "I" God enjoy watching the world burn.

 

[truseeker]

Can ecman51 really say he obeys all of God's laws? He never hated anyone. Never coveted something someone else had. Never lied. It's easy to say he would have obeyed but does he obey now?

 

[outhouse]

Why didn't God give each and every one of us the same test?

I wont spin my wheels trying to rationalize ancient storys.

in my opinion is was rather a unbelievable tale from the get go.

I believe it was a metaphor against oral sex, think about it one second. The tree of life, dont eat the fruit and eve couldnt resist. Adam liked it and followed eves leed.

maybe the original text in its original language would shed more light

in my opinion, talking snakes to brothers fighting to adam living for what 900+ years, ribs a yankin LOL To me its a cute litte story %100 fiction. We can all not be inbreed from two people

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

I, though I'm an atheist, interpret the tale of Adam and Eve as indicating that people will most likely do wrong at least a few times in their lives.

I'm pretty sure we've all told that lie that didn't have to be told, we've done something out of self-interest that harmed someone else even indirectly... I think it's a stretch of the imagination to say that anyone is completely innocent of any sort of wrongdoing.

. It definitely raises a lot of questions about the literal interpretation of the Genesis story.

I would say it is more a fallacy than a "lie". A lie is a deliberate intent to deceive someone in violation of what you believe is the truth. I would be lying if I told you that I believed in a personal God, because it would be in violation or my core beliefs. I would also be lying if I told you that every person on earth was descended from the mythical Adam and Eve 6000 years ago, because it also would be violation of my beliefs. But if a creationist told you that he-she would not by lying because he-she believes it is the truth, even though it does not alter the fact it is a complete fallacy IMO.

 

[Katzpur]

Why didn't God give each and every one of us the same test? I would have obeyed God, from a simple logic standpoint: Since he was the one who created us, it would be wise to obey him.

Nobody back then when they wrote the Bible ever thought, with this Adam and Eve 'story', and the reason for why we die, we would ever question such an account ? They never thought that people would never question why not only man dies, but everything organic, that does not even understand good and evil, also dies? That they really thought we would believe that if we did not sin, we would never die and could not be killed - even if an asteroid came and hit us on the head?

Well you're asking two questions, really. You're asking why we die without having been given the same test Adam and Eve were given, and you're asking why those forms of life that don't understand good and evil must also die. Let's take these one at a time. Which one do you want to start with?

 

[BruceDLimber]

No: not in the least!

Not only do the Jewish scriptures explicitly REJECT the concept of inheritance of "original sin," but other scriptures state explicitly that humans are born good--indeed, the term used is "noble!"

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Tathagata]

I would have obeyed God, from a simple logic standpoint: Since he was the one who created us, it would be wise to obey him.

Ok, then please demonstrate the logic that supports this conclusion. As of yet, this appears to be utterly arbitrary and nonsensical until you can logically justify this.

Obedience is not praise-worthy nor something to respect.

.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Why didn't God give each and every one of us the same test? I would have obeyed God, from a simple logic standpoint: Since he was the one who created us, it would be wise to obey him.

Nobody back then when they wrote the Bible ever thought, with this Adam and Eve 'story', and the reason for why we die, we would ever question such an account ? They never thought that people would never question why not only man dies, but everything organic, that does not even understand good and evil, also dies? That they really thought we would believe that if we did not sin, we would never die and could not be killed - even if an asteroid came and hit us on the head?

One of the biggest conundrums when I was a Christian. That sin was somehow like a communicable disease or something. If the wages of sin was death, then based on that alone, Adam and Eve's death would have sufficed as payment in full.

 

[Renji]

Why didn't God give each and every one of us the same test? I would have obeyed God, from a simple logic standpoint: Since he was the one who created us, it would be wise to obey him.

Nobody back then when they wrote the Bible ever thought, with this Adam and Eve 'story', and the reason for why we die, we would ever question such an account ? They never thought that people would never question why not only man dies, but everything organic, that does not even understand good and evil, also dies? That they really thought we would believe that if we did not sin, we would never die and could not be killed - even if an asteroid came and hit us on the head?

Wow. Does the term "death" always apply to the meaning "stopping of all physiologic and physical processes"? You do know that the bible also speak of "spiritual death", do you?

 

[idea]

Why didn't God give each and every one of us the same test? I would have obeyed God, from a simple logic standpoint: Since he was the one who created us, it would be wise to obey him.

Nobody back then when they wrote the Bible ever thought, with this Adam and Eve 'story', and the reason for why we die, we would ever question such an account ? They never thought that people would never question why not only man dies, but everything organic, that does not even understand good and evil, also dies? That they really thought we would believe that if we did not sin, we would never die and could not be killed - even if an asteroid came and hit us on the head?

We need to die, because we need a probationary state. This life we make mistakes and learn - we die so we can have a fresh start.

Adam and Eve ate the fruit so that they could have children. They were unable to have children in their perfect form. They had a choice: either don't eat the fruit, never know good/evil, never have children.... or eat the fruit and progress, have children.

I'm glad that they chose to eat the fruit, none of us would be here if they had not.

 

[idea]

One of the biggest conundrums when I was a Christian. That sin was somehow like a communicable disease or something. If the wages of sin was death, then based on that alone, Adam and Eve's death would have sufficed as payment in full.

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 24:16)
16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

 

[ecman51`]

Quote:
Nobody back then when they wrote the Bible ever thought, with this Adam and Eve 'story'
Etu's reply:

. . . now I thought Adam & Eve WERE the first two? Oh well.

I said "when they wrote the Bible". You must have missed that part. I was referring to the Bible writers, 'back then'.

Etu's reply:

In any case . . . it's not a matter of "the reason why we die" it's a matter of ENLIGHTENMENT towards two paths, and each and every one of us has this Freedom of Will. It is just this Freedom of Will that the Abrahamic god hoped to hide from you, fortunately there was an Angel . . . Lucifer, who didn't like the rules.

Lucifer, the original Serpent, represents the divine force of creation that is able to carry out the idea of creation. (Egyptian God Set)
Lucifer sinks down to man's level and awakens the power of creation and the sexual energy in man. Thus, man can reach the knowledge which was previously only accessible to God.

Interpretation please?

Why do you say that it is not the reason whey we die...when we DO die, and it says in the Bible that that is why we die?Enlightenment?...from who? God or Lucifer?And what do you mean that Lucifer awakens the power of creation?

 

[ecman51`]

So, in my interpretation of the story, Adam and Eve simply represent all of humanity doing that one thing that they regret later on.

Hmmm. Could be. But as the tinman said in the Wizard of OZ, "I still want one!" IOW - I still want to be personally put to the test, to see how I would decide.

Okay, let's take this a step further. Suppose we let Adam and Eve sin and go to hell because of it. Why not let the subsequent generation(s) learn from their(Adam and Eve's) mistake, and then say, "Nope, I'm obeying God! I'm not so stupid as to not learn from THEIR mistake!"

Excellent post(rant)!!!

 

[Twilight Hue]

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy24:16)
16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Right. I remember that. So by the parameters of the Genesis story, sin itself should have been eliminated forthright at Adam and Eve's death. There should have been no further instances and occurrences of sin, and the children should have been totally immune as they did not eat of the fruit themselves, nor had anything to do with anything involving Adam and Eves actions.There is a contradiction in the manner in which this is presented to which sin is still present and passed on nonetheless even after Adam and Eve's death.

Of course you could say that Adam and Eve later taught sin to their Children and they emulated their parents. But being they did not eat of the tree, how did they know what sin was?

 

[ecman51`]

One of the biggest conundrums when I was a Christian. That sin was somehow like a communicable disease or something. If the wages of sin was death, then based on that alone, Adam and Eve's death would have sufficed as payment in full.

Interesting, since we have been told that when Jesus paid the price for sin and died, that HIS death freed everyone from death. Interesting.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Interesting, since we have been told that when Jesus paid the price for sin and died, that HIS death freed everyone from death. Interesting.

Which is a reason why the OT IMO was for the most part was chucked out the window by the early Christians in favor of Jesus as being the redeemer through parallels drawn and determined (more likely fished and correlated) to fit in symbolically with aspects of the OT in reference to Jesus, with the Jews themselves for the most part dismissing the notion of Jesus altogether.

 

[ecman51`]

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy24:16)
16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Well will you looky there! No Bible contradictions they say.

..................................................

Now just everyone keep in mind that I do not want to polute the mind of the devout believer, since I do not want a lightening bolt coming and striking me down dead. It says something in the Bible, I think, that it is an abomination to steer people away from God - that it be better for your soul if you were never born. But since many here are responding who are to be atheists, no harm done right? Sweat, sweat.

Do you know why I just posted this disclaimer? Seconds after I posted about the 7 days of creation about God creating sun on both the 1st and 4th days - within seconds on tv, they talked about the 7 days of creation! (and it was not on a religious program). I have coincidences that go way beyoned the ordinary. I have volumes of them, and record them! For years I have been having them and writing them down. The only explanation I have for them is that someone upstairs is sending me signs that there is indeed something supernatural going on in this world, and my life. I also have had an inordinate amount of street lights go out when I go under them, and only when I get under them, and do not see them go out down the street. I once hit 4 deer at 45 mph and killed 2 outright, struck all 4, and never put a scratch in my car!!! Then 1 month later I hit another one - same result. Then I see other people who hit deer and they have crumpled grills hoods and roofs of their car! I have almost drowned and been rescued. I almost drove off a cliff on a road and swerved back onto the road in the knick of time. I have taken a full hit of electricity when I had one hand on the hot wire and the other hand on the neutral wire when the switchws turned on. All kinds of things when I look in retrospect. That is why I am not so sure whether I should make light by starting some of the stuff I am saying in this forum. I may be a blessed person that should not be making fun of that force that has possibly been a guide and guardian to me. Yet, I swing both ways, and feel caught in the middle of how to believe. It sounds ludicrous to believe in the God story - But JUST as ludicrous to believe all this just happened - and for no reason - how we came in existance, to be able to look upon the creation itself, and even leave the Earth where we were created, to go explore. Amazing, for it to have just happened. You could take say a Lincoln log set, and an Abraham Lincoln doll and a watch. Take the Lincoln log set, throw in the Abe doll and the watch. Ever think that if you shook it even trillions of times, that say a 20-log set log cabin would occur with Abe inside, wearing the watch on his wrist? And that is let's say only 22 objects. Now take just one living cell, and take things from there.