What about the 7-day creation story?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

According to Rev 5:9,10 those redeemed or bought from earth have two jobs in heaven to do. They will serve as kings and priests. Kings take care of governmental responsibilities, and Priests take care of spiritual needs of their subjects. They are not robots but they do have assigned jobs to do.

Men or mankind is addressed at Rev 21:3. In verse 4 there is no suffering.
The people, during Jesus 1000-year reign over earth, have their tears wiped away. (Isaiah 25:8) No sorrow. No crying. No pain. No more death.
Rev 22:2 mentions healing or curing for the nations.
This is in fulfillment to the promise to Abraham (Gen 12:3; 22:17,18) that all the families of the earth will be blessed, and all the nations of the earth will be blessed.

There will be no suffering (Isaiah 33:24) in either heaven or earth.

Remember, though, that this all started with look3467's justification of why there is suffering here on Earth now:

...."your God could stop it now if he wanted to 1900 years ago"....

He could if you eliminated one condition.....and that would be free will.

If God made us all robots would there be any deceases, deaths or sufferings?

No, He would just cause everything to happen just like He would dictate it.

But, because He gave you free will, you have become your own god.

Being a god and not a robot means living with suffering.

Blessings, AJ

So... to recap:

- we have suffering here on Earth because we have free will, and having free will means living with suffering.
- in Heaven, we won't have suffering, but we'll still have free will.

Which of these statements is false? They contradict each other, so at least one of them must be.

 

[dan b]

God created the world in 6 days, right. So lets consider this world from the standpoint of 6. There are 6 directions in the world. East, West,North, South, Up, Down. So is 6 not the number of this world. Not of Mankind, we are made in God's image. Gen.1;27

Consider this world again as 6 dimensional material. 1. is a point 2. or two points make a line. 3. makes a shape 4. makes a shape with width. 5. makes a shape with width and length 6. makes a shape with width, length and hight. This is the nature of the physical material world that God created over 6 days.

In Rev.21.16 the New Jerusalem of the Millennium has the " length and the breadth and the height" all equal. Thats Europe. On a Lambert's Azimuthal equal area projection map of "Eurasia"(which is the earth that Abraham stood upon) Europe is the same length as it is wide. From the northern tip of Scotland down to the southern tip of Greece, is exactly the same measurment as from the Western city of Lisbon to the guardian of Christianity's east gate Moscow.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Remember, though, that this all started with look3467's justification of why there is suffering here on Earth now:
So... to recap:
- we have suffering here on Earth because we have free will, and having free will means living with suffering.
- in Heaven, we won't have suffering, but we'll still have free will.

Which of these statements is false? They contradict each other, so at least one of them must be.

The angelic or spirit world were created first. All angels or spirit creation have 'free will.' Adam was created with human perfection and would remain in that perfect human condition as long as he did not use his 'free will' to disobey God.

Did free will cause suffering to perfect faithful angels? No according to Scripture. If Adam and/or Eve would have remained faithful would there be suffering on earth? No according to Scripture.

Since both perfect spirit creation and perfect physical creation have free will and only those that disobey God suffer, then free will in itself is not the problem but the misuse of the gift of free will.

Unlike perfect creation we have inherited human imperfection so that from childhood our leanings are toward imperfection. If we could stop sinning we would not die nor suffer. Sin or disobedience to God brings suffering and death.

Although a perfect spirit creation, Satan became a sinner and all sinners pay the price of sin which is death. So Satan will die for his sins of disobedience but his end will be destruction according to Hebrew 2:14 B.

Whereas, those that die due to inherited imperfection (us), at death, one is freed or acquitted from sins according to Romans 6:7. This does not mean innocent but as a governor can pardon a person means the charges no longer stick. Even so, no one can resurrect oneself or another. Jesus balanced the scales of justice and can and will resurrect all except for those of Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6.

'Free will' will always exist in both heaven and earth. What will stop existing will be: imperfection. Without imperfection either in heaven or earth there will be no suffering, and as Rev 21:4 says no more death. Our last enemy death will be destroyed according to 1st Cor 15:26; Isaiah 25:8.

 

[idea]

7 is god because 3 is earth and 4 is heaven and 4 + 3 = 7, .

3*4 = 12
we see a lot of 12's in the Bible too (12 tribes, 12 apostles, etc. etc.)

3 is what we know of God - the trinity
4 - there are actually 4 members of the Godhead, not three... one of the members is hidden from us right now though .

 

[look3467]

Remember, though, that this all started with look3467's justification of why there is suffering here on Earth now:



So... to recap:

- we have suffering here on Earth because we have free will, and having free will means living with suffering.
- in Heaven, we won't have suffering, but we'll still have free will.

Which of these statements is false? They contradict each other, so at least one of them must be.

Sufferings, is as a result of the flesh, not the spirit.
The consequences of the flesh is suffering.

A marriage between heaven (spirit, or representative of Adam)and the earth (flesh, or representative of Eve)the mother of all flesh.

There is no referencing Adam (spirit) as the father of all flesh, but there is referencing of Adam (spirit) the father of faith.

So then, the fruits of that union is a "living soul", a god like person in the flesh who was subjected to vanity, and also by the same subjected in hope.

Once this individual you, in spirit, known of God, will enter heaven via the open gates of Jesus and all your works will die with the flesh.

Therefore, where there is no flesh, there is no suffering.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

3*4 = 12
we see a lot of 12's in the Bible too (12 tribes, 12 apostles, etc. etc.)

3 is what we know of God - the trinity
4 - there are actually 4 members of the Godhead, not three... one of the members is hidden from us right now though .

Numbers, symbols and actual words have meaning other than what they represent as written.
Numbers study is an interesting study, but by itself can one make any determination one wants, which will lead to a study in futility.

But numbers as used in the bible mean something. Determination is made in how tey are used and collaborated by other verses as well.

Blessings, AJ

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sufferings, is as a result of the flesh, not the spirit.
The consequences of the flesh is suffering.

Ah... so you were wrong before: it's not free will that causes suffering, it's "the flesh".

So "the flesh" is just faulty in general? Who created "the flesh"?

Since you seem to have changed your mind on your answer to the question that started all this, let's try again: is human suffering necessary? If so, why?

You've (now) attributed human suffering to the failings of "the flesh"; are those failings necessary? If so, then why aren't they necessary in Heaven?

 

[look3467]

Ah... so you were wrong before: it's not free will that causes suffering, it's "the flesh".

So "the flesh" is just faulty in general? Who created "the flesh"?

Since you seem to have changed your mind on your answer to the question that started all this, let's try again: is human suffering necessary? If so, why?

You've (now) attributed human suffering to the failings of "the flesh"; are those failings necessary? If so, then why aren't they necessary in Heaven?

Let me explain it this way, the flesh houses the spirit, resulting in a living soul created that was given the ability to reason, free will.

So, because of the creation of the living soul (which is Adam =both male and female)

the flesh becomes the vehicle of suffering because of the free will ability.

So, I am still consistent with what I originally said,because that is what this life is all about.

Were it not that Jesus had to come to remedy the consequence of free will ability, then there would be no occasion for sin.

Blessings, AJ

 

[URAVIP2ME]

7 is god because 3 is earth and 4 is heaven and 4 + 3 = 7, and 6 is the devil because couldn't get to be 7, or some other odd equations; read about it long ago and can't remember very well, but is numerology.

In Revelation the # 7 is applied to God's purpose and also #7 to Satan's purpose.
Revelation: 1:4, 12,16; 4:5; 5:1,6; 10:3,4; 12:3

 

[look3467]

In Revelation the # 7 is applied to God's purpose and also #7 to Satan's purpose.
Revelation: 1:4, 12,16; 4:5; 5:1,6; 10:3,4; 12:3

The number 7 is repeatedly used throughout the whole bible as well as other numbers and symbols.

Therefore, we must conclude that God used them repeatedly for a reason.

The reason?

Well, that is for us to seek out, but not for the purpose of salvation, but to deepen our understanding of God.

Blessings, AJ

 

[lockyfan]

Remember, though, that this all started with look3467's justification of why there is suffering here on Earth now:



So... to recap:

- we have suffering here on Earth because we have free will, and having free will means living with suffering.
- in Heaven, we won't have suffering, but we'll still have free will.

Which of these statements is false? They contradict each other, so at least one of them must be.

Both.

Because it misses the whole point.

We were given free will by God. Adam and Eve were perfect but chose to use their free will in the wrong way and never bore any perfect children, therefore when they had children they were impefrect and sin is like a hereditary disease that is bred into all humans that come down from Adam. Jesus was the son of God not Adam and his life was merely transfered to Marys womb, so therefore he was still prefect and died perfect to end the sinful condition of humans after the 1000 year reign.

 

[look3467]

Both.

Because it misses the whole point.

We were given free will by God. Adam and Eve were perfect but chose to use their free will in the wrong way and never bore any perfect children, therefore when they had children they were imperfect and sin is like a hereditary disease that is bred into all humans that come down from Adam. Jesus was the son of God not Adam and his life was merely transferred to Marys womb, so therefore he was still prefect and died perfect to end the sinful condition of humans after the 1000 year reign.

There is a difference between free will in the flesh and free will in the spirit.

Free will in the flesh is our own lustful desires.
Free will in the spirit is our desires given up for the desires of God.
We willfully given our desires up.

In the spirit, there remains no lust, for only the flesh lusts after its own gain.

Blessings, AJ

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Both.

Because it misses the whole point.

We were given free will by God. Adam and Eve were perfect but chose to use their free will in the wrong way and never bore any perfect children, therefore when they had children they were impefrect and sin is like a hereditary disease that is bred into all humans that come down from Adam.

Ah... so God is a Lamarckian, is he?

Jesus was the son of God not Adam and his life was merely transfered to Marys womb, so therefore he was still prefect and died perfect to end the sinful condition of humans after the 1000 year reign.

Actually, the Bible declares Adam to be the son of God. Check Luke 3:38 if you don't believe me.

 

[look3467]

There is a difference between Adam and Jesus: One was given the tree of knowledge of good and evil to experience, resulting in death, and the other is the tree of life, given to experience death for all of us that in His death and resurrection, we all might experience life.

Adam was the son of God since God's breath caused Adam to become a living soul, but without knowledge.
But when knowledge was ingested, Adam became an individual apart from God, resulting in death.

While Jesus, being the son of God in the same manner, (Mary an earthen vessel whose womb was the clay for the breath of God to bring forth a living soul) had in Him the full embodiment of the spirit of God.

Which means, that Jesus already knew and understood what the tree of knowledge was, and in our place, bought with a price, the tree of knowledge for us, eliminating the sting of death.

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

The first son Adam brought life in the flesh, while the second son Adam, brought life in the spirit.

Blessings, AJ

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Adam had access to the 'tree of life' until an angel blocked the way to it after sin.

Adam had knowledge. Absolutely God told Adam he would die if he disobeyed.
Adam became a living soul, and at death became a dead soul. From dust to dust.

Before being sent to earth, Jesus was a spirit creation in the heavens.(Col 1:15,16)
After resurrection (Hebrews 9:24) Jesus returned to the spirit realm.

Adam was created from the earth, physical.
Adam had no resurrection just returned to the physical dust of the earth.

Except for those of Matt 12:32 and Heb 6:4-6 the rest will have a resurrection to either heaven or on earth as Daniel looked forward (12:2) that the sleeping dead will awaken from the dust of the ground during Jesus 1000-year rule over earth. -Acts 24:15.
Rev 22:2.

 

[lockyfan]

There is a difference between Adam and Jesus: One was given the tree of knowledge of good and evil to experience, resulting in death, and the other is the tree of life, given to experience death for all of us that in His death and resurrection, we all might experience life.

Adam was the son of God since God's breath caused Adam to become a living soul, but without knowledge.
But when knowledge was ingested, Adam became an individual apart from God, resulting in death.

While Jesus, being the son of God in the same manner, (Mary an earthen vessel whose womb was the clay for the breath of God to bring forth a living soul) had in Him the full embodiment of the spirit of God.

Which means, that Jesus already knew and understood what the tree of knowledge was, and in our place, bought with a price, the tree of knowledge for us, eliminating the sting of death.

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

The first son Adam brought life in the flesh, while the second son Adam, brought life in the spirit.

Blessings, AJ

Can you please for me quote the scriptures where you get this idea from?

 

[look3467]

Adam had access to the 'tree of life' until an angel blocked the way to it after sin.

Adam had knowledge. Absolutely God told Adam he would die if he disobeyed.
Adam became a living soul, and at death became a dead soul. From dust to dust.

Before being sent to earth, Jesus was a spirit creation in the heavens.(Col 1:15,16)
After resurrection (Hebrews 9:24) Jesus returned to the spirit realm.

Adam was created from the earth, physical.
Adam had no resurrection just returned to the physical dust of the earth.

Except for those of Matt 12:32 and Heb 6:4-6 the rest will have a resurrection to either heaven or on earth as Daniel looked forward (12:2) that the sleeping dead will awaken from the dust of the ground during Jesus 1000-year rule over earth. -Acts 24:15.
Rev 22:2.

Had excess to the tree of life meaning, meaning that he had life already, yet with out knowledge of good and evil.
It was not until the injestion of knowledge of good and evil did the separation came.

Akin to a new born baby. The baby has life yet no knowledge of good and evil.
But dies, spiritually when the child grows and comes to the point of accountability, then does the separation come, because then the child becomes its own god.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

There is a difference between Adam and Jesus: One was given the tree of knowledge of good and evil to experience, resulting in death, and the other is the tree of life, given to experience death for all of us that in His death and resurrection, we all might experience life.>>>AJ

Adam was given to know knowledge of good and evil as part of its makeup.
The tree simply is a metaphor of that fact.

When Adam learns (experiences) or as like a child comes to the age of accountability, gains knowledge of good and evil to where now makes up it’s own mind, becomes like as god.

This scripture states that fact: Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

You see, we are made in the image of God. Would you say that we are called sons of God, that we are not gods ourselves?
Not God, but gods, or as like God: sons.

Now, lets look at Jesus and see the how Jesus is not to experience good and evil since Jesus is God in the flesh and needs no experience.

First, Jesus is conceived in the same manner as was Adam, or say a type of Adam, by the same breath of God in the womb of Mary.

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


The difference being that Jesus is God in the flesh where Adam was only the breath of God.

Jesus is: 1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.


Only God can quicken our spirits!

Blessings, AJ

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Had excess to the tree of life meaning, meaning that he had life already, yet with out knowledge of good and evil.
It was not until the injestion of knowledge of good and evil did the separation came.

Akin to a new born baby. The baby has life yet no knowledge of good and evil.
But dies, spiritually when the child grows and comes to the point of accountability, then does the separation come, because then the child becomes its own god.

Blessings, AJ

Yes, it was not the ingesting of knowledge of good and evil but 'disobedience' that brought separation. Satan lied to Eve- Gen 3:4,5. Instead of having their eyes opened to see things better and continue to live they made poor choices and mistakes. Genesis 3:24 God made sure they could not return to the tree of life and continue to live everlastingly.

We all know at birth that a child's leanings will be toward imperfection.
That human imperfection was passed down from imperfect Adam.

We all have free will to choose to use that free will to obey or disobey God.
Jesus will rescue those that want to obey and love God.
Isaiah 11:4; Rev. 19:11,15.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Adam was given to know knowledge of good and evil as part of its makeup.
The tree simply is a metaphor of that fact.
When Adam learns (experiences) or as like a child comes to the age of accountability, gains knowledge of good and evil to where now makes up it’s own mind, becomes like as god.
This scripture states that fact: Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
You see, we are made in the image of God. Would you say that we are called sons of God, that we are not gods ourselves?
Not God, but gods, or as like God: sons.
Now, lets look at Jesus and see the how Jesus is not to experience good and evil since Jesus is God in the flesh and needs no experience.
First, Jesus is conceived in the same manner as was Adam, or say a type of Adam, by the same breath of God in the womb of Mary.
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
The difference being that Jesus is God in the flesh where Adam was only the breath of God.
Jesus is: 1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Only God can quicken our spirits!
Blessings, AJ

The last Adam, Jesus, became a life giving spirit. Greek: spirit making alive.
Why would one tree be a metaphor and not the other- Gen 3:24?

Wasn't Genesis 3:4,5 Satan's lie to Eve ? _____ 1 Tim 2:14.

Yes, Gen 3:22 to know good and evil shows they were now going to choose for themselves what they would set up as good or what they set up as evil.
Instead of God Rule, Adam set up People Rule. Independence from God's guidance, to now choose for himself what is right or wrong in his own eyes.

Adam and Eve did not become god-like after eating, but they set up Satan as the god of this world of badness- 2Cor 4:4. Satan would now be god over them.

The disobedient fallen angels of Genesis 6:2,4 are: sons of God.

Adam was more than the breath of God because after God breathed the breath of life into Adam then Adam became a living soul- Gen 2:7.
At death Adam lost the breath of life, and Adam became a dead soul.
From dust to dust. - Ezekiel 18:4,20.

Jesus taught us at Revelation 3:14 that he is the beginning of the creation by God. 'Firstborn' in the heavens. -Colossians 1:15,16.