What are the mistakes Muslims do when informing others about Islam?

[Badran]

yes, i could understand how a "non-muslim" would not be required to pray, but why then are muslims? if it is that they want to pray, then they shouldn't be forced to pray. all that separating the rules does is separate the people. This however, is quite off-topic aswell. unless you account that it is dealing with a "mistake" that some make when informing others about Islam and how confusing the rules and such can get.

I'm glad you brought up that point. This is possibly another misunderstanding, that others also have. These Islamic rituals are not obligatory in anyway. It is between the person and God. Muslims are not obligated to do them. It's purely a matter of choice.

 

[The Enlightened One]

Sorry to jump in so late in the thread, but I figured I would just sit this one out and see how it goes. However, I do have a personal experience that I can lend to the topic...

I have only had one muslim in my entire life try to inform me of islam. I was about 9 years old and I was living next to a house full(there were about 12 people living there if I remember correctly) and I never had a problem with any of them except for their oldest son. Me and him had been friends for about a year before my neighbor living two doors down from me started calling them the devil and making a big deal out of their religious beliefs. It was around this time that my muslim neighbor was on my porch and made the comment 'damn christians' and that is when I told him that I was a christian. He instantly got angry and asked me how I could believe in such BS and that 'muslim' was the purist faith on the world and that I would burn in hell and deserved it because I believed that Jesus was my savior. I told him to go * himself and then called him a 'damned muslim'(something I wouldn't say today, but hey, I was nine and ****** off).

So in my only experience, I feel that he was acting out of anger towards our other christian neighbors, and that he was very intollerant to ANY other belief than islam. Sadly, I have encountered this with many religions; however, it was the individual and not their religion that was doing the talking(although I have heard alot of things about muslims being brutal when it comes to non-believers). The only mistake that I see is that they think that they KNOW that they are right and everybody else can **** off, but I also understand that if you believe something firmly enough people tend to take their 'faith' as undefilled knowledge.

 

[301ouncer]

Originally Posted by 301ouncer
you welcome anytime. A drop of blood of a muslim is more dearer to the creator then all of the Kabbah and everything that surrounds it.
Originally Posted by 301ouncer
you welcome anytime. A drop of blood of a muslim is more dearer to the creator then all of the Kabbah and everything that surrounds it.


This is authentic sahih bukhari and sahih muslim hadith. 100% islamic teachings. Accept for the sahih hadith rejecters it is not, therefore I consider them not to be muslims in the first place and I am entitled to my opinion.

AND 100% hate speech.

But then what else do you expect from the "religion of peace?"

No sir, your speech is 100% hate speech. I pray that you channel this blind hate to the corrupt system that is dominating the planet.

Actually I am not surprised you find the above qouted a hate speech as you will be more then happy to see the blood of muslims as cheap as water.

Actually sir water is $2 for 1 litter or 1.2 euros so the the blood of a muslim is alot less cheaper in many people's view.

As a famous personality said once. Do you think that their blood is blood and our blood is water?

To us in the Quran the blood of an innocent is deep red no matter what race or colour.

 

[301ouncer]

'damn christians'

'damned muslim'

I would without a shadow of doubt say both of your sayings are nothing but the corrupted fruits of secular satanic and its flawed educational system and media.

 

[LuisDantas]

Even assuming that you are entirely correct on that, 301ouncer (I disagree, but let's leave that aside for a moment), why say so?

Enlightened one gave as a gift of a personal testimony. He was honest enough to bring out some ways in which Muslims aren't treated as well as they should be. There is good material there for constructive talk, yet you prefer to tell us once again that we are secular, satanic, and just all-around rotten.

Really, why?

 

[301ouncer]

Even assuming that you are entirely correct on that, 301ouncer (I disagree, but let's leave that aside for a moment), why say so?

Enlightened one gave as a gift of a personal testimony. He was honest enough to bring out some ways in which Muslims aren't treated as well as they should be. There is good material there for constructive talk, yet you prefer to tell us once again that we are secular, satanic, and just all-around rotten.

Really, why?

Where is your prove I said you are a secular, satanic and just all around rotten? after your prove I will continue with a constructive talk.

 

[LuisDantas]

It is post #284, of course...

 

[*Anne*]

I think 301 said the negative exchange between the two friends is a result of the secular culture.

 

[.lava]

i wonder if this kind of useless fights are something that only men do

only when we see good in others, whatever is good within us would show. simply because what's within always matches with what we perceive. so if you perceive then there is match. what's cure for that?
you are what you see. so search for what's good in others and say it for God's sake or be what you insult and look down upon. there is no other way

.

 

[301ouncer]

I think 301 said the negative exchange between the two friends is a result of the secular culture.

thank you my good friend Anne. hope your family well.

Sorry Luise your prove falls short so I am finished in this thread.

 

[*Anne*]

I think Luis just misunderstood you, 301.

Lava, I love your posts.

 

[301ouncer]

i wonder if this kind of useless fights are something that only men do

only when we see good in others, whatever is good within us would show. simply because what's within always matches with what we perceive. so if you perceive then there is match. what's cure for that?
you are what you see. so search for what's good in others and say it for God's sake or be what you insult and look down upon. there is no other way

.

Salamu alikum bajim. Are you refering to me as useless fights or something else. Sorry just that forums confuse me.

I hope you advice me sincerely so that I might take heed. :yes:

 

[Badran]

It seems to me that Luminous is pointing out (correctly AFAIK) that a society that gives equal rights to people of all religions is by definition secular.

Or it would be called a fair society. A society which gives people equal rights.

Of course, that also means that such a society will never be fully Islamic. I can't tell for sure that Islam can only be fully realized under a Islamic government, but that seems to be what most Muslims believe to be true to some degree. There is certainly no deluge of Muslims asking for a secular government...

I only expect to live in an Islamic society, in Islamic majority countries. So, Islam can be fulfilled without an Islamic government. Because some people live in countries where Muslims are a minority. so, there is no way they could live under Islamic government there.

In this context, Badran, your statement that non-Muslims shall not be treated the same as Muslims is worth a close look. I truly don't believe that you are advocating discrimination. You don't look like that sort of person, not at all. But still, taken at face value, such a statement is indeed discriminatory.

What i meant was, that in certain counted situations, they would require special rules to apply to them. For example, If Muslims have holiday at friday because of the friday prayer, and there are other people who live in that same country who are not Muslims, they should be given another holiday if they need one. Like christians go to church on sunday, so we'd give them sunday as a holiday. Also, they will not fall under the rules of Islam. They will not be expected to act as Muslims, or have the same standards. Only when it comes to offenses or crimes.

If I may be so bold, let me speculate that perhaps it is useful to go deeper into the Islamic understanding of the functions of religion, state, and of which sort of link the two should have with each other.

Islam for me is a religion, which contains information, rules, and teachings given to us by God and his prophet (pbuh). The more i come close to living by those guides, the better Muslim i am.

Far as I can tell, there is presently an unavoidable clash of goals between secularists (me among them) and (some? all? "proper?") Muslims. A secular society is only possible by having a government that does not favor any religion over any others (or over atheism and/or lack of religion). Indeed, I personally believe that the best government possible is so secular that it does not even bother attempting to tell what is religious from what is not.

Islamic state doesn't favor Islam over other religion, it simply means that it allows Muslims to live under the rulings of their religion, instead of man made rules. However, there are hundreds of Topics that are not covered in Islam. So, it will be ruled in just like any other country makes a new law. The only difference is, that instead of having a moral code as the reference, we will have Islamic teachings as the reference.

A Islamic society, from many impressions, would by necessity demand some set of governmental privileges to feel fully realized. If that is true, than the choices are either open conflict and compromise of some sort. Conflict is destructive almost by definition, and compromise requires mutual understanding. So I maintain that dialog must be sought after either way. If nothing else, it will allow both sides to dismiss some fears and concentrate into problems that actually have a factual basis.

I agree. however like i told you, i only expect so in a majority occupied Muslim country, because i personally don't believe in a system that can work for everybody around the world. I don't believe there is such thing as a global system that can make things better for everyone.

 

[The Enlightened One]

I would without a shadow of doubt say both of your sayings are nothing but the corrupted fruits of secular satanic and its flawed educational system and media.

Lol actually it was from the muslims parents' teachings on his part and mockery on mine
Plus, we were nine so get over the secularism because it's here to be dealt with(boo hoo).
I appreciate you attempt at 'brownie points' on my post as I was sharing a personal experience and require no pre-biased feed back on my location and educational system, good day sir!

 

[Badran]

Lol actually it was from the muslims parents' teachings on his part and mockery on mine
Plus, we were nine so get over the secularism because it's here to be dealt with(boo hoo).
I appreciate you attempt at 'brownie points' on my post as I was sharing a personal experience and require no pre-biased feed back on my location and educational system, good day sir!

I actually find your post to be constructive. It gives much room for reasonable discussion about the subject.

 

[.lava]

Salamu alikum bajim. Are you refering to me as useless fights or something else. Sorry just that forums confuse me.

I hope you advice me sincerely so that I might take heed. :yes:

i am referring to fight itself and what i say is a general fact. my advice? i can only advice what i try to practice. search, find and speak what's good in people, not other way around. focus on what we have in common, not other way around. don't break hearts, try to build bridges between hearts

.

 

[The Enlightened One]

Where is your prove I said you are a secular, satanic and just all around rotten? after your prove I will continue with a constructive talk.

I would be honored to point out EXACTLY where you say it(well, imply it, at the least) Just read your quote below .....

I would without a shadow of doubt say both of your sayings are nothing but the corrupted fruits of secular satanic and its flawed educational system and media

Albeit you never stated that it was of MINE or OUR secular 'satanic'(whatever the hell that means) or whose educational system, but seeing as I am an american I pretty much know WHO you are refering to: and that would the the american govt. Deny it all you like but the implication is there none-the-less.

Like I said 301, your biased and it shows in your post. Sharp tongue with little reasoning behind it.

You still have my respect however because you are voicing your own opinions

 

[The Enlightened One]

I actually find your post to be constructive. It gives much room for reasonable discussion about the subject.

Thank you, that was all that I was aiming for

 

[301ouncer]

Albeit you never stated that it was of MINE or OUR secular 'satanic'(whatever the hell that means) or whose educational system, but seeing as I am an american I pretty much know WHO you are refering to: and that would the the american govt. Deny it all you like but the implication is there none-the-less.

Secular states are of the east and west. Yes I agree with you that the secular masters are from actually europe and not US. The secular east are mere puppet dancing to the tunes of it master.

Like I said 301, your biased and it shows in your post. Sharp tongue with little reasoning behind it.

You mean sliver tongue? yes with concerete evidence to backup my reasoning. Promise no hate and no hearsay.

You still have my respect however because you are voicing your own opinions

Thank you. I very much like to hear your voicing too in my thread that you deserted and left me all alone in the dark.

I am out of here as it is not the thread for it.

 

[gnostic]

Response: Another argument which you can't back up. At least you are consistant.

Actually, it is something you can't back up, fatihah.

Where is your evidence that Islam is a perfect religion?

I certainly don't see it today, where more militant Muslims kill other Muslims who are peaceful in the mosques or marketplace. I don't see Islamic or Muslim-populated country to be any less corrupt than those in the imperfect West. There are as many more ignorant or uneducated Muslims than there are educated and wise Muslims.

Even when the Islamic empires existed, it is marred by wars, conquests and invasions, forcing women and children into slavery if they don't surrender. Hardly what I call a perfect society in that? Do you forget that Islamic empire have raided the way to Spain, via Africa? Do you forget that they destroyed the Byzantine capital - Constantinople, which you called Istanbul? Do you forget the army had taken much of Eastern Europe, and still want to push westward into Central and Western Europe? Haven't you forgotten Persia, Armenia, Central Asia, and more importantly India? Invasion is an invasion. That Muslims today tried to whitewash what they have did in their history, by calling "liberation", doesn't change the fact that invasion by foreign Islamic army is an invasion by foreign army. The Islamic empire had exploited the territories they have gained as much as any non-Islamic empires. And you whine about invasion Iraq, while ignoring Saddam had butchered the Kurds and Shiite Muslims, while enriching the Sunni Arabs living in Iraq.

You have fables in the Qur'an where King Solomon supposed control armies of djinns, and can communicate birds and ants, and even control the winds (Qur'an 27). Can you prove that such ability exist? What it say about Solomon is even more embellished than what is written in 1 Kings 1-11. The only miraculous thing to actually occur in the bible about Solomon, is that he prayed and gain wisdom, nothing silly like talking to animals and controlling the weather found in the Qur'an.

Believing in perfection is one thing, proving it is altogether a different matter, and no Muslims have proven the religion is perfect, let alone the scripture or their prophet. It is simply boasting and propaganda, and I am not impress when Muslims or any other religions for that matter, claiming one true perfect religion.