What are the values of moderate Muslims?

[TashaN]

First you mention Muhammad as the example to learn from. But the only way we know about Muhammad is through the scripture, correct? So are you saying you use the scripture to interpret the scripture?

No, there is something called Sunnah which is different from the Quran.

Quran is the word of God word by word 100%, and on the other hand, Sunnah is the teachings of Prophet Mohamed himself which include but not limited to, sayings of wisdom, inspired actions and teachings, and many other details.

Sunnah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I understand you might find some difficulty to understand this at the beginning because it's different with Christianity where everything Jesus or his disciples said considered to be part of the Bible and Bible considered to be the word of God.

Muslims believe Quran is a very specific and very accurate inspiration of God, and anything which Prophet Mohamed said and was not part of the Quran, we consider it to be Sunnah.

That's why we follow Prophet Mohamed sayings, teachings, and we are inspired by how he lived and what he said.

Next you mention scholars, cool. Can you say more about these scholars? Are they scholars from shortly after the time of Muhammad? Or more recent scholars? A mix?

Scholars need to cite from Quran and Sunnah and use it as evidence to back up their opinions whether they were from the past or present. Today most scholars depend and cite opinions of the early scholars and seek wisdom from it, because the more a scholar is from the early generation, the closer he is from sources of wisdom, but at some times they might reject some opinions if found out to be less correct than other opinions. They all eventually have to prove their stance using Quran and sayings of Prophet Mohamed.

Finally you mention common sense. Also cool! This gets back to one of my feelings that in fact morals and values exist outside of religion, and in fact they pre-date religion.

How do you define religion? and when do you think the first religion emerged?

 

[icehorse]

Hi TashaN, I think I have somewhat of an understanding of the Quran, the Hadith, Sunnah and Sira. I know there might be some disagreement between the Hadith and the Sunnah, but from my perspective all of those are considered to be "Islamic Scripture". Is that mostly correct? So, when I referred to "scripture", I meant (at the time I typed it), the Quran, the Hadith, the Sira. I hope that's close enough for our purposes? If not, please correct me.

I read an English translation of the Quran. I have read a tiny bit of the Hadith. It seems to me that most Muslims have probably NOT read all the Hadith - would you agree with that? I also suspect that many Muslims have not read the entire Quran. (In fact, I believe it's the case that many Muslims throughout the world are illiterate - correct?)

So, getting back to "values", it would seem that for many, many Muslims their values are not coming directly from the scripture. Their values are probably coming more from their families and their cultures and perhaps their local religious leaders. Would you agree with that?

As for my definition of religion, perhaps this is a detour, but I would say something like this:

For as long as people have been sentient, they've wondered about the same spiritual questions: where did the world come from?, where did I come from?, what happens when I die? - questions like that. I think religions were people's early attempts at trying to answer those questions. I'm not an ancient historian, but I'd guess that religions go back tens of thousands of years.

 

[TashaN]

Hi TashaN, I think I have somewhat of an understanding of the Quran, the Hadith, Sunnah and Sira. I know there might be some disagreement between the Hadith and the Sunnah, but from my perspective all of those are considered to be "Islamic Scripture". Is that mostly correct? So, when I referred to "scripture", I meant (at the time I typed it), the Quran, the Hadith, the Sira. I hope that's close enough for our purposes? If not, please correct me.

yeah, i got what you meant.

I read an English translation of the Quran. I have read a tiny bit of the Hadith. It seems to me that most Muslims have probably NOT read all the Hadith - would you agree with that? I also suspect that many Muslims have not read the entire Quran. (In fact, I believe it's the case that many Muslims throughout the world are illiterate - correct?)

We can't generalize because Muslims are scattered all over the world, and whether they are literate or illiterate depend on where they live. But i do agree that not all Muslims have read the entire Quran and all collections of hadiths. Only scholars and those interested usually do so, which is natural.

So, getting back to "values", it would seem that for many, many Muslims their values are not coming directly from the scripture. Their values are probably coming more from their families and their cultures and perhaps their local religious leaders. Would you agree with that?

I totally agree.

As for my definition of religion, perhaps this is a detour, but I would say something like this:

For as long as people have been sentient, they've wondered about the same spiritual questions: where did the world come from?, where did I come from?, what happens when I die? - questions like that. I think religions were people's early attempts at trying to answer those questions. I'm not an ancient historian, but I'd guess that religions go back tens of thousands of years.

Morality and values, where do they come from? i think the answer wouldn't be easy. I have read alot about morality but i ended no where. It's still vague but i believe morality is innate but the society you live in will shape it according to its norms and established values.

 

[icehorse]

Hi TashaN, and all,

I want to try to summarize this discussion by making a few *strawman proposals*. In other words, any or all of these proposals are meant to be modified if any or all of them are wrong:

1 - At the heart of Islam are two ideas:
..a - The Quran is a perfect gift from God.
..b - Muhammad should be seen as a role model for Muslims.
2 - As with the other Abrahamic religions, most Muslims interpret their scripture.
3 - Values and morals come from family, culture, and scriptural interpretation.

To me, the key point in all of the above is the idea of *interpretation*.

I'll propose that *radical Muslims* (or whatever phrase is considered to be best), are those who most closely take the scripture at face value, with very little interpretation. (I understand that this conclusion might be controversial.)

This conclusion has been difficult for me to arrive at. The Quran declares itself to be:
- not corruptible
- clear and understandable

So when I read the Quran, I take it at face value. Because it declares itself to be clear, I read it from the perspective that the words mean what they say directly. I do NOT read it from the perspective that the words are metaphorical, or allegorical. (And I take the same approach, when I read about Muhammad.)

From that perspective, it seems that *radical Muslims* are those who most closely follow the scripture.

So TashaN, I really, really, really appreciate our discussion. You're the first Muslim I've conversed with who has been willing to discuss the idea of "scriptural interpretation". Logically, I've known for a while that this interpretation must be the "norm". But - at least online - the Muslims I've talked to, have all taken a hard line (minimizing the idea of "interpretation"), which has left me with a logical disconnect.

So, while the idea of *scriptural interpretation* is CRUCIAL to mutual understanding, it still leaves us with the question: "How much interpretation is going on?"

Back to core values, it strikes me that when people of different religions and cultures mix together, a good predictor of how that mixing will go is to look at core values. Where people's values match, a peaceful result is more likely. Where values are in opposition, is where trouble is more likely. So that's why I've persisted in trying to get responses from Muslims on those values that are most likely to cause trouble:

- defense of scripture vs. free speech
- following the scripture's rules of inequality for some vs. equality for ALL
- the pursuit of Sharia vs. support for a secular governments

I'd still like to hear more feedback on these points. After many posts and a couple of thousand views, these questions remain largely unanswered.

 

[cocolia42]

So when I read the Quran, I take it at face value. Because it declares itself to be clear, I read it from the perspective that the words mean what they say directly. I do NOT read it from the perspective that the words are metaphorical, or allegorical. (And I take the same approach, when I read about Muhammad.)

If you read an English interpretation of the Qur'an at face value, then you will not get the whole message. The language of the Qur'an (classical Arabic) is nothing like English. You cannot make a direct translation from one to the other. This is a problem for many Muslims. Many Muslims make the effort to learn the original language to understand the Qur'an properly. Unfortunately, I know many Middle Eastern Muslims who speak Arabic who think they already know the language - but they're wrong. The Arabic they speak today is not the same as classical Arabic. Much like the English we speak today is not the same as Old English.

The point is, without knowledge of the original language, you won't get the whole message - whether interpreting or not.

So, while the idea of *scriptural interpretation* is CRUCIAL to mutual understanding, it still leaves us with the question: "How much interpretation is going on?"

First, let's consider the fact that the Qur'an is Allah's words to ALL of mankind, for ALL generations.
So there are multiple levels of interpretation that needs to happen.
First, the interpretation by the ulama (scholars) of our generation. Example: The internet didn't exist when the Qur'an was sent down, but surely Allah knew it would. So within His words are guidelines for its use. The ulama make those interpretations.
Second, the interpretation by our selves. Allah made us different. We need to apply this Book to our own situations. Example: The Qur'an commands women to guard their modesty. Many of us interpret this (in context) to be a commandment to wear hijab. Some women in non-muslim countries make the interpretation that by wearing hijab they are bringing unnecessary and/or unwanted attention to themselves, so they don't wear hijab as a means of being modest by blending in.

Back to core values, it strikes me that when people of different religions and cultures mix together, a good predictor of how that mixing will go is to look at core values. Where people's values match, a peaceful result is more likely. Where values are in opposition, is where trouble is more likely. So that's why I've persisted in trying to get responses from Muslims on those values that are most likely to cause trouble:

- defense of scripture vs. free speech
- following the scripture's rules of inequality for some vs. equality for ALL
- the pursuit of Sharia vs. support for a secular governments

I'd still like to hear more feedback on these points. After many posts and a couple of thousand views, these questions remain largely unanswered.

Is there any place in the world where there is TRULY free speech? where there is TRULY equality for all? where there is TRULY a completely secular government?
Not that I know of. If you know of this place, please let me know.

If you want to know what a true, practicing Muslim should value...it's Allah before all else. It's that simple. Life goes on as usual UNTIL you are faced with a situation where you have to choose between Allah and something/someone else. Then you choose Allah no matter what. And that means choosing His Way and defending Him and His Prophets.

People always ask why Muslims get so upset when someone insults the Prophet Muhammad, salallahua alayhi wasallam. I believe that on the Day of Judgement I will be asked by Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, 'what did you do when so-and-so insulted my Prophet'. And 'nothing' is the wrong answer.

 

[icehorse]

Hi cocolia42,

Agreed and understood on the mechanisms of scripture interpretation you describe.

So in the case of criticism, you said basically that a Muslim must defend Islam. That makes sense, and the question then becomes: "In what way do you defend Islam?".

I have discussed this with some Muslims who have said that such defense must be peaceful. But the world has experienced that some Muslims believe that such defense might well turn violent and deadly. Further, some Muslims have been working hard to create blasphemy laws throughout the world. So there are various approaches to defending Islam, and I'd say that the approach an individual takes gets back to that individual's values.

Does that make sense?

 

[cocolia42]

Hi cocolia42,

Agreed and understood on the mechanisms of scripture interpretation you describe.

So in the case of criticism, you said basically that a Muslim must defend Islam. That makes sense, and the question then becomes: "In what way do you defend Islam?".

I have discussed this with some Muslims who have said that such defense must be peaceful. But the world has experienced that some Muslims believe that such defense might well turn violent and deadly. Further, some Muslims have been working hard to create blasphemy laws throughout the world. So there are various approaches to defending Islam, and I'd say that the approach an individual takes gets back to that individual's values.

Does that make sense?

Yes, that makes sense, and you are right. And it's why you are having a hard time getting an answer to your question.

Ideally, if a Muslim were to adhere strictly to the teachings of Islam, he would have no choice but to defend a verbal attack through peaceful means. BUT, what we see in the real world is a value system based on a mixture of religion and culture.
So when we ask what a Muslim should do, we get a very clear answer.
When we ask what a Muslim will do...the only answer is 'it depends on the person'

 

[icehorse]

Hi cocolia42,

I'm sorry to be confused here, but what *should* a Muslim do when she hears blasphemy? In other words, what's the clear answer?

 

[cocolia42]

Hi cocolia42,

I'm sorry to be confused here, but what *should* a Muslim do when she hears blasphemy? In other words, what's the clear answer?

Just from the Qur'an, without digging into any hadeeth...

And it has already come down to you in the Book that when you hear the verses of Allah [recited], they are denied [by them] and ridiculed; so do not sit with them until they enter into another conversation. Indeed, you would then be like them. Indeed Allah will gather the hypocrites and disbelievers in Hell all together - (Surat An-Nisa:140)


We know that you, [O Muhammad], are saddened by what they say. And indeed, they do not call you untruthful, but it is the verses of Allah that the wrongdoers reject.
And certainly were messengers denied before you, but they were patient over [the effects of] denial, and they were harmed until Our victory came to them. And none can alter the words of Allah . And there has certainly come to you some information about the [previous] messengers.
And if their evasion is difficult for you, then if you are able to seek a tunnel into the earth or a stairway into the sky to bring them a sign, [then do so]. But if Allah had willed, He would have united them upon guidance. So never be of the ignorant. (Surat Al-An'am:33-35)

Indeed, those who abuse Allah and His Messenger - Allah has cursed them in this world and the Hereafter and prepared for them a humiliating punishment. (Surat Al-Ahzab:57)

​

CLEARLY, we should be patient, remove ourselves from their vicinity, and trust that Allah will punish them and His punishment is greater than ours can ever be.

To go just a little deeper...we should correct whatever they said that is false. One time. Not get into a debate. This is from the sunnah of the prophet.

 

[icehorse]

Hi cocolia42,

From a secular perspective, that sounds like a reasonable response. I'd interpret that as saying you value free speech - hooray!

How about equality for women and Jews and gays? If Sharia was the law of the land, then in many important respects, the law would view women as worth half or a third as much as a man. Does that seem okay to you? Again, these are core values we're discussing, and I know they're not the easy ones to discuss, so I appreciate your responses!

 

[TashaN]

Hi cocolia42,

From a secular perspective, that sounds like a reasonable response. I'd interpret that as saying you value free speech - hooray!

How about equality for women and Jews and gays? If Sharia was the law of the land, then in many important respects, the law would view women as worth half or a third as much as a man. Does that seem okay to you? Again, these are core values we're discussing, and I know they're not the easy ones to discuss, so I appreciate your responses!

I know this is directed at cocolia42 but i couldn't resist wondering what did you mean that in Islam women are equal to half a man or third! Both have the same value in Islam. No one is lesser than the other.

 

[firedragon]

Hi cocolia42,

From a secular perspective, that sounds like a reasonable response. I'd interpret that as saying you value free speech - hooray!

How about equality for women and Jews and gays? If Sharia was the law of the land, then in many important respects, the law would view women as worth half or a third as much as a man. Does that seem okay to you? Again, these are core values we're discussing, and I know they're not the easy ones to discuss, so I appreciate your responses!

Are you saying this with some basis?

 

[cocolia42]

Hi cocolia42,

From a secular perspective, that sounds like a reasonable response. I'd interpret that as saying you value free speech - hooray!

How about equality for women and Jews and gays? If Sharia was the law of the land, then in many important respects, the law would view women as worth half or a third as much as a man. Does that seem okay to you? Again, these are core values we're discussing, and I know they're not the easy ones to discuss, so I appreciate your responses!

Where did you get the idea that women would be worth half or a third as much as a man? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "worth"

Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, says in surat Al-Imran:

Never will I allow to be lost the work of [any] worker among you, whether male or female; you are of one another.
​

And Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, says in surat Al-Hujurat:

O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.
​

And Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, says in surat Al-Ahzab:

Indeed, the Muslim men and Muslim women, the believing men and believing women, the obedient men and obedient women, the truthful men and truthful women, the patient men and patient women, the humble men and humble women, the charitable men and charitable women, the fasting men and fasting women, the men who guard their private parts and the women who do so, and the men who remember Allah often and the women who do so - for them Allah has prepared forgiveness and a great reward.
​

If Allah considers men and women to be equal, how can we not? That's not to say we're not different. Men have their roles in society, women have theirs. And that is by Allah's infinite wisdom so it's fine with me. But they are certainly equal.

The Prophet, salallahu alayhi wasallam, said

"O mankind, your Lord is One and your father is one. You all descended from Aadam, and Aadam was created from earth. He is most honored among you in the sight of God who is most upright. No Arab is superior to a non-Arab, no colored person to a white person, or a white person to a colored person except by Taqwa (piety)." [Ahmad and At-Tirmithi ]

​

As for Jews and gays, they should be treated fairly. They are Allah's creation as well. And Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, says in surat Al-An'am:

And leave those who take their religion as amusement and diversion and whom the worldly life has deluded. But remind with the Qur'an, lest a soul be given up to destruction for what it earned
​

And Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala says in surat Fatir:

Then is one to whom the evil of his deed has been made attractive so he considers it good [like one rightly guided]? For indeed, Allah sends astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. So do not let yourself perish over them in regret. Indeed, Allah is Knowing of what they do.
​

And Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, says (and in fact tells us to say) in surat Al-Kafirun:

Say, "O disbelievers,
I do not worship what you worship.
Nor are you worshippers of what I worship.
Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship.
Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship.
For you is your religion, and for me is my religion."
​

So our responsibility is only to remind others of Allah's Word and leave them to live in their own way. As long as they are not oppressing or fighting us, there should be no problems.

 

[icehorse]

Hello,

When I read the Quran I took summary notes. I listed these verses without double checking them - in the interest of time. So I might have a few of them wrong, but there are themes that I picked up:

- In matters of divorce and inheritance, women get less than men
- Women must obey their husbands
- A man can have many wives, not the other way around
- In paradise a man will have many, lovely, wide-eyed virgins
- In paradise, a man's wife will only have eyes for her man (not the other way around)

So this is a partial list of verses from my notes, I didn't go all the way through, and I wouldn't be surprised to be told that I misunderstood a few of these verses. That wouldn't refute my original claim, correct?

2:178
2:223
4:11
4:15
4:34
4:129

24:x
33:x

37:48
38:52

43:17
44:54

I'm sure that if I did research into the Hadith I could find much more. For example, there are instructions for the "correct" way for a man to beat his wife (and not the other way around).

I don't want to get into debates about scriptural interpretation here. It's clear that in many regions of the world, Muslim women are NOT treated as equals, and Islam is cited as the reason why.

I must say, I'm surprised that these claims would be disputed here in 2014.

So, to go back to the original post, I have been asking about the values of "moderate" Muslims, correct? And this is why I ask. I think you might say "well those misogynistic beliefs and behaviors are only held by the extremists". Great! Glad to hear it, that's why I'm curious about what moderate Muslims value. Thanks!

 

[cocolia42]

"well those misogynistic beliefs and behaviors are only held by the extremists".

I wouldn't say that. I'd say that those with misogynistic beliefs and behaviors are influenced by their culture or desires.

For example, you might find that behavior to be more common in Pakistan than Egypt. And more common in Egypt than Indonesia. And more common in Indonesia than America.

And one "extreme" might be prevalent in one area while a different "extreme" is prevalent in another area. Then do you consider them all to be "extremists"?

I did take a look at the verses you posted. The whole issue of gender equality would really be a post of its own. But, I want to stress again that Islam does make it clear that men and women have different roles to play. So when we read, for example, 4:34

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.
​

What we learn is that Allah has granted men authority in the household. But it's not meant to be that men dictate everything a woman can say or do. Marriage is a partnership. But if the two partners have differing opinions, one has to have the final say, or the partnership will fail.

I'll give you a personal example. My husband wants to own a home. I do not. It can't be both ways. So my husband has to make a decision. Either he concedes and lets me have my way, or he puts his foot down and has his way. I don't get to put my foot down. (Alhamdulillah, so far he's conceding )

And on the issue of inheritance, women receive less because their husbands are required to provide for them financially. So they don't need as much as a man does. Also, when a Muslim women works or has some other source of income (like an inheritance), her husband cannot touch it. Sounds fair to me!

Anyway...It's the culture issue that is making it hard to say what a "moderate" Muslim values.

 

[icehorse]

Hi cocolia42,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I would agree that a person's values are created and influenced by many factors. Here are some possible contributing factors:

- cultural upbringing
- current cultural situation
- religion
- the stability or instability of the local environment
- financial stability

We could probably add lots more. This is helping me realize that my questions haven't been quite precise enough.

What if I were to ask: Given that a person's core values are influenced by many factors including religion, what values do moderate Muslims attribute to their understanding / interpretation of Islam? Or put another way, What are moderate Islamic values?

 

[WhiteKufi]

Hello icehorse,

If you ask 100 muslims that, you will likely get 100 different answers (especially in the west). Moderation is something that all Muslims aspire to, we believe our religion is the "middle path" between extremism and laxity.

We can have an understanding of what a Muslim is because there are clear delineations of what makes a muslim, but moderate is a word that means different things to different people, and it is designed to be that way, because you only know moderation if you know extreme, and you only know extreme if you know moderation. I do not watch movies or music because I find conflicts within my religion. Now, to many muslims living in the west, I would be labeled as extreme (personal experience). However to any student of Islamic knowledge, I would really be moderate.

I personally do not know what a moderate Muslim is, but I hope I am one of them.

You asked how scholars interpret the religion, this is a very fascinating subject. I am currently studying Islam under traditional scholars, if I find an article that explains it nicely I will be sure to post it.

 

[icehorse]

TashaN, cocolia42, WhiteKufi, and everyone...

It seems that you're all offering variations of the idea that we can't really draw any conclusions about moderate Islamic values because of factors like different cultures and so on. So are there any constants at all we can find? Given a few absolutes like:

- Islamic scripture is final and unalterable
- Muhammad is the role model

It would seem odd to conclude that there are no common values?

 

[cocolia42]

TashaN, cocolia42, WhiteKufi, and everyone...

It seems that you're all offering variations of the idea that we can't really draw any conclusions about moderate Islamic values because of factors like different cultures and so on. So are there any constants at all we can find? Given a few absolutes like:

- Islamic scripture is final and unalterable
- Muhammad is the role model

It would seem odd to conclude that there are no common values?

It's so hard because, as everyone has mentioned, we don't know what a "moderate" Muslim is.

Our common values are simple in theory. Worship Allah alone. Don't put anything before Him - not any person, not any thing. Obey Him the best you can. Enjoin what is good (good being what is taught through the Qur'an and Sunnah), Forbid what is evil (from the same source). Strive to reach the highest level of Jannah (Paradise). Be kind to others. Don't judge others. Give in charity. Feed the hungry. Don't lie. Don't cheat. Don't steal...

In practice, things get complicated. Just to expand on what WhiteKufi was saying, he thinks music is haram (forbidden) (I'm sure based on evidence provided by the scholars from the Qur'an and Sunnah). Some Muslims think all music is permissible (also based on evidence provided by scholars from the Qur'an and Sunnah). I'm in the middle. I believe it's not music that is haram, but the content/message/lyrics that are haram. Just as some people consider WhiteKufi to be on the extreme side, many people consider me to be on the liberal side. So if he's extreme and I'm liberal...who's moderate?

We're both following our core values. We're both trying to Worship and obey Allah to the best of our ability and understanding.

 

[TashaN]

TashaN, cocolia42, WhiteKufi, and everyone...

It seems that you're all offering variations of the idea that we can't really draw any conclusions about moderate Islamic values because of factors like different cultures and so on. So are there any constants at all we can find? Given a few absolutes like:

- Islamic scripture is final and unalterable
- Muhammad is the role model

It would seem odd to conclude that there are no common values?

Only the Quran is final and unalterable and the rest is subject to change and investigation. Prophet Mohamed is our role model for how to be a good Muslim.

Now to answer your question, i think something which Prophet Mohamed said might help. He said in the meaning of the hadith "I have been sent to perfect the beauties of moral conduct." He didn't come to make us alien to others, and he didn't come to hate the others. He wanted us to be peaceful to all humanity whether they are Muslims or non-Muslims. In fact, he even warned that anyone who harm those whom we are in peace with from the non-Muslims, he will personally be against us in the day of judgment to defend the non-Muslim we harmed in anyway.

A great example how Muslims can fit in and protect the diversity of the society is Al Andalus in Spain when the Muslims ruled there for more than 700 years in harmony with Jews and Christians alike and all these religions followers were working together to advance in knowledge.

Let me quote for you something from a thread a made a while back.

(Islam, which was rising in the East, had a different view of the Jews as it accorded a special status to ‘the People of the Book’ (people who believe in the same God and follow their scriptures which are meant to give them divine guidance to the same eternal truth) and hence deserve to be treated with respect, dignity and religious freedom. The followers of Jesus and Moses were given full religious freedom in the Islamic civilization and their faith and religions were respected. Contrast the above suppression of the Jews and their forcible conversion to Christianity with Abba Eban’s comments on the Jewish life and experience in the Islamic world as he says:

“Above everything else, life under Arab rule offered wide scope for creative spiritual energies. How else can we explain the heights of creative energy, of literacy grace and aesthetic perfection exemplified in the eleventh and twelfth centuries by Solomon ibn Gabriol, Moses ibn Ezra, and Judah Halevi, all in Spain; and in Egypt by Moses ben Maimonides or Ramban-who also was born in Spain. In some places in the Arab empire, the Jews reached spiritual heights they had not scaled under Christian rule in diaspora.”

In the great centers of Islamic civilization it was not just religious freedom and social acceptance but also the opportunities to climb the social ladder that were open to Jews, and they were able to reach high positions, serve society and contribute to solving the problems of their own community and civilization. One such example, among many, is the story of Hasdai ibn Shaprut. Caliph Abd–er–Rahman III of Spain (891-961) appointed Hasdai as Physician in his court. Commenting on the power and position enjoyed by Hasdai in Muslim Spain, Abba Eban writes:

“From the standpoint of Jewish history, however, his most far--reaching act was to elevate Hasdai ibn Shaprut, his court physician, to the office of director of the customs department and to role of trusted adviser and emissary. It was Hasdai who conducted the delicate negotiations that led to the conclusion of peace treaties with Leon and Navarre in the late 950s.

Just as Abd-er-Rahman, in placing himself on par with the caliphs of Damascus and Egypt, established Muslim Spain’s political autonomy, so Hasdai ibn Shaprut, as leader of the Jewish community of Muslim Spain, deliberately sought to end his people’s subservience to Babylon. He named rabbi of Cordoba the learned Moses bin Hanokh (B.C. 965), who headed a yeshiva (rabbinical academy) and wrote responsa, so that Spanish Jews would not have to send to Sura and Pumbeditha for answers to halakhic questions. Hasdai befriended poets and supported scholars. A practicing physician, he also patronized the sciences and other learned professions.)

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...-abrahamic-religions-star-cross-crescent.html

You see, we really don't want to be *different*. We just want to share common good values with others wherever that place was and live in peace.

What might make your judgment be clouded is just the intense political atmosphere we have recently. Try to look at the bigger picture and the Muslim society during more than 1400 years, not just the last couple of decades.