What are your opinions on Anti-Theism?

[Shad]

Theism, and religion In general, was supposed to be an evolutionary aspect of our species. Or do atheists just now see it as something we could have done entirely without.

Religion and theism is part of our history. However we could of done fine without either. The roots of religion are based on unverifiable claims from authority figures representing the ultimate unverifiable authority figure(s). These claims are based on pattern seeking which is never verified before nor is the conclusion verified. It provided easy answers for people who couldn't be bothers to find an answer for themselves. The ones providing the answers established a base of power from this "unique" authority which was further reinforced by those seeking answers. This created a whole new field of theology which is basically a person with an expertise in nonsense and explaining nonsense.

 

[Thruve]

Religion and theism is part of our history. However we could of done fine without either. The roots of religion are based on unverifiable claims from authority figures representing the ultimate unverifiable authority figure(s). These claims are based on pattern seeking which is never verified before nor is the conclusion verified. It provided easy answers for people who couldn't be bothers to find an answer for themselves. The ones providing the answers established a base of power from this "unique" authority which was further reinforced by those seeking answers. This created a whole new field of theology which is basically a person with an expertise in nonsense and explaining nonsense.

Lets agree to disagree.
Even if 100 years from now, religion ceases to have an influence on the world, it would have been a counter balance/result of the past few centuries where it influenced nearly everything.

 

[Shad]

Yes this is why I completely acknowledge it is part of our history. I am just proposing the idea of a path based on logic, philosophy ethics and science. I wonder how different we would be if people didn't accept the idea that a shaman was talking to spirits or that this person speaks for or is spoken to by a supernatural figure(s). People who hear voices in their head are given padded rooms and coats with long sleeves these days. In the past these people were creditable.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I think humanity has outgrown theism and now it's doing more harm than good.

This is called Post Theism.

That doesn't mean we need to abandon spirituality, community, empathy, and all the good stuff. We just don't need to pretend to know what we don't know.

Theism does not equal community or empathy, it just means god. God has as much to do with human behavior as Nestle has to do with the Navy SEALS.

Also this word "spirituality" you use makes no sense

 

[George-ananda]

More matured anti-theists will desire to get rid of the notion of theism because of its conflicts with reality

Geez, anti-theists have that clear an understanding of all of reality that they then can dismiss phenomena and concepts they know couldn't possibly have any reality to it.

I guess I'm skeptical of Skeptics and a student of the paranormal and eastern spiritual masters. Foolish me as I conflict with reality as understood by the 'more matured anti-theists'.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Geez, anti-theists have that clear an understanding of all of reality that they then can dismiss phenomena and concepts they know couldn't possibly have any reality to it.

I guess I'm skeptical of Skeptics and a student of the paranormal and eastern spiritual masters. Foolish me as I conflict with reality as understood by the 'more matured anti-theists'.

No, nobody's understanding of reality is that clear. The understanding on unreality is clear though.
I can dismiss super-naturalism on the basis that if it is understood and experience it is not supernatural any more.
I can dismiss paranormal events as well simply based on the psychiatric understandings of perception and memory.

You are talking to a person who just accidently suckered a person into confirming their religion and belief in supernatural events. I regret it obviously but it happened.

 

[icehorse]

This is called Post Theism.

Theism does not equal community or empathy, it just means god. God has as much to do with human behavior as Nestle has to do with the Navy SEALS.

Also this word "spirituality" you use makes no sense

I brought up ideas like community and empathy because theists often lay claim to those ideas, as if non-believers would be against them.

As far as spirituality goes, agreed that it's a difficult-to-define term. For me, looking at the Milky Way or a sunset or a sunrise filtering through the mist can take my breath away, as can a Beethoven symphony. I'll call that a peek into spirituality. It needs no claim to anything supernatural.

 

[George-ananda]

No, nobody's understanding of reality is that clear.

I would think that admission would lead to a more humbler stance than ANTI-Theism.

The understanding on unreality is clear though.

So do you think the unreality of NDE's, spiritual encounters, childhood reincarnational memories, etc. is so clearly understood?

I can dismiss super-naturalism on the basis that if it is understood and experience it is not supernatural any more.

I agree that everything in the universe is natural. But our concept of what is natural can expand to include things like astral planes and soul bodies could it not? And consciousness/God/Brahman may be found to be the fundamental component of the universe.

I can dismiss paranormal events as well simply based on the psychiatric understandings of perception and memory.

Psychiatric explanations have been considered since day 1 of parapsychological research. I think they explain some experiences but certainly not all. Just a couple examples where a totally psychiatric explanation doesn't satisfy is verifiable knowledge of details in NDE's and childhood reincarnational memories.

You are talking to a person who just accidently suckered a person into confirming their religion and belief in supernatural events. I regret it obviously but it happened.

I would have to hear more to comment.

 

[Ryujin]

I would have to hear more to comment.

I am also curious about this. What happened Philotech?

 

[Sha'irullah]

I would think that admission would lead to a more humbler stance than ANTI-Theism.

Anti-theism is a humble stance and the most humblest. It is saying "we do not know everything so stop making things up".

So do you think the unreality of NDE's, spiritual encounters, childhood reincarnational memories, etc. is so clearly understood?

Please do not do this to me because I will seriously just think your are toying with me.

NDEs have been proven to be bogus in almost every single case. A lack of oxygen and the recreation of NDEs has been done thanks to neuroscience. All you have to do is a bit of Googling and you will see what I mean.

The rest is just fluff and even I of all people have had a "spiritual moment" and it came about because of my deep wanting(not belief) of a god.

I agree that everything in the universe is natural. But our concept of what is natural can expand to include things like astral planes and soul bodies could it not? And consciousness/God/Brahman may be found to be the fundamental component of the universe.

Such things are not natural and considering that again, neuroscience has once again triumphed over any conception of a metaphysical soul it is ludicrous to even assert it.

Psychiatric explanations have been considered since day 1 of parapsychological research. I think they explain some experiences but certainly not all. Just a couple examples where a totally psychiatric explanation doesn't satisfy is verifiable knowledge of details in NDE's and childhood reincarnational memories.

Now I know you have done 0 homework.

When it comes to reincarnation you could easily say that because we know that the human memory is a result of the physical structure of the brain that any events or memories could be recreated by the altering of the physical form of the brain.

People are psychopaths because of this or have various issues like Autism as well because of the physical structure of the brain. In psychiatry it is understood that the human memory is utterly worthless for the most part and people can be induced to assume they have experienced particular things all the time.
On a biological level it is not crazy to assert that a person thinks he has past memories only to realize they are not his own. This is all a result of naturalism.

I would have to hear more to comment.

I will make a separate thread or better yet you could start it yourself because this will take up some writing because it is a rather humorous tale and I did not realize it was stupid until years afterwards.

 

[George-ananda]

Anti-theism is a humble stance and the most humblest. It is saying "we do not know everything so stop making things up".

So what do you say about Self-Realized saints of the east that have experienced the universe as God. If you experience God it doesn't make sense to say 'I don't know'. They say what they experience is more real than our physical conscious experiences.

Please do not do this to me because I will seriously just think your are toying with me.

NDEs have been proven to be bogus in almost every single case. A lack of oxygen and the recreation of NDEs has been done thanks to neuroscience. All you have to do is a bit of Googling and you will see what I mean.

The rest is just fluff and even I of all people have had a "spiritual moment" and it came about because of my deep wanting(not belief) of a god.



Such things are not natural and considering that again, neuroscience has once again triumphed over any conception of a metaphysical soul it is ludicrous to even assert it.



Now I know you have done 0 homework.

When it comes to reincarnation you could easily say that because we know that the human memory is a result of the physical structure of the brain that any events or memories could be recreated by the altering of the physical form of the brain.

People are psychopaths because of this or have various issues like Autism as well because of the physical structure of the brain. In psychiatry it is understood that the human memory is utterly worthless for the most part and people can be induced to assume they have experienced particular things all the time.
On a biological level it is not crazy to assert that a person thinks he has past memories only to realize they are not his own. This is all a result of naturalism.

You apparently are not aware of or intentionally disregard the strongest evidence for NDE's and childhood reincarnational memories. Certainly children can have false memories but they can not have memories of specific names and specific details of some stranger's life in your thinking. Factual knowledge of events around the patient and even in other rooms and areas are known by some NDE patients.

For these and a hundred other reasons I believe we live in a universe far more complex than we realize. To be an anti-theist is to be too closed-minded. When they hear of phenomena they are not really interested in studying and investigating but in how they can debunk anything that seems to smack of God or spirituality. That is not the spirit of scientific inquiry.

 

[George-ananda]

Anti-theism is a humble stance and the most humblest. It is saying "we do not know everything so stop making things up".

So what do you say about Self-Realized saints of the east that have experienced the universe as God. If you experience God it doesn't make sense to say 'I don't know'. They say what they experience is more real than our physical conscious experiences. An atheist can say I can't address their claims. An anti-theist says they do not have a real experience. How can the anti-theist possibly know that?

Please do not do this to me because I will seriously just think your are toying with me.

NDEs have been proven to be bogus in almost every single case. A lack of oxygen and the recreation of NDEs has been done thanks to neuroscience. All you have to do is a bit of Googling and you will see what I mean.

The rest is just fluff and even I of all people have had a "spiritual moment" and it came about because of my deep wanting(not belief) of a god.



Such things are not natural and considering that again, neuroscience has once again triumphed over any conception of a metaphysical soul it is ludicrous to even assert it.



Now I know you have done 0 homework.

When it comes to reincarnation you could easily say that because we know that the human memory is a result of the physical structure of the brain that any events or memories could be recreated by the altering of the physical form of the brain.

People are psychopaths because of this or have various issues like Autism as well because of the physical structure of the brain. In psychiatry it is understood that the human memory is utterly worthless for the most part and people can be induced to assume they have experienced particular things all the time.
On a biological level it is not crazy to assert that a person thinks he has past memories only to realize they are not his own. This is all a result of naturalism.

You apparently are not aware of or intentionally disregard the strongest evidence for NDE's and childhood reincarnational memories. Certainly children can have false memories but they can not have memories of specific names and specific details of some stranger's life in your thinking. Factual knowledge of events around the patient and even in other rooms and areas are known by some NDE patients.

For these and a hundred other reasons I believe we live in a universe far more complex than we realize. To be an anti-theist is to be too closed-minded. When they hear of phenomena they are not really interested in studying and investigating but in how they can debunk anything that seems to smack of God or spirituality. That is not the spirit of scientific inquiry.

 

[Shad]

NDE seem to only related "experiences" in which the NDE person has information of only examples which are in their intimidate area. All of which could have been observed before the NDE via the sub-conscious and conscious. Provide an example in which an experience provides information which is not local and verified.

 

[George-ananda]

NDE seem to only related "experiences" in which the NDE person has information of only examples which are in their intimidate area. All of which could have been observed before the NDE via the sub-conscious and conscious. Provide an example in which an experience provides information which is not local and verified.

Example 4: A dying girl left her body and into another room in the hospital where she found her older sister crying and saying:


"Oh, Kathy, please don't die, please don't die."

The older sister was quite baffled when, later, Kathy told her exactly where she had been and what she had been saying during this time.


"After it was all over, the doctor told me that I had a really bad time, and I said, "Yeah, I know."

He said, "Well, how do you know?"And I said, "I can tell you everything that happened."



He didn't believe me, so I told him the whole story, from the time I stopped breathing until the time I was kind of coming around. He was really shocked to know that I knew everything that had happened. He didn't know quite what to say, but he came in several times to ask me different things about it.



When I woke up after the accident, my father was there, and I didn't even want to know what sort of shape I was in, or how I was, or how the doctors thought I would be. All I wanted to talk about was the experience I had been through. I told my father who had dragged my body out of the building, and even what color clothes that person had on, and how they got me out, and even about all the conversation that had been going on in the area.

And my father said, "Well, yes, these things were true."

Yet, my body was physically out this whole time, and there was no way I could have seen or heard these things without being outside of my body.


Notice the sister was not local. This is from one of the major nde websites (Near-Death Experiences and the Afterlife). You can find many such stories.

 

[Sha'irullah]

So what do you say about Self-Realized saints of the east that have experienced the universe as God. If you experience God it doesn't make sense to say 'I don't know'. They say what they experience is more real than our physical conscious experiences.

What do you say about the scientists who say they have found out about the universe and its nature which is materialistic?

What do you say about Muhammad and his experiences. He knew very well Allah was real and your gods are not.

You apparently are not aware of or intentionally disregard the strongest evidence for NDE's and childhood reincarnational memories. Certainly children can have false memories but they can not have memories of specific names and specific details of some stranger's life in your thinking. Factual knowledge of events around the patient and even in other rooms and areas are known by some NDE patients.

I find most of this to be completely bogus and every time it is investigated it never goes into detail. I was a firm believer in reincarnation until I realized it never goes any further than an interview.

Are you familiar with the kid who somehow experienced having past memories of being a kamikaze pilot or something of the like?

Laughable story. This is no more worst than Ian Stevenson fishing for evidence on this matter. Yet it turns out a lot of his research is bias.

Go to Saudi Arabia and you will find no evidence for reincarnation then do the same for India and all the sudden the evidence is "overwhelming!".

If culture affects the studies then obviously there is something wrong.

You never bring up NDEs because they are jokes and only jokes. Please tell me about the experiences of people and this tings and you will find one common theme. Every experience involves the person and THEIR idea of god. Go watch TBN and you will see what I mean

For these and a hundred other reasons I believe we live in a universe far more complex than we realize. To be an anti-theist is to be too closed-minded. When they hear of phenomena they are not really interested in studying and investigating but in how they can debunk anything that seems to smack of God or spirituality. That is not the spirit of scientific inquiry.

The universe is highly complex and highly beautiful. Adding supernaturalism and gods just taints it.

Being an anti-theist is the exact opposite of being close minded I may add, you are extremely close minded on the other hand.

To oppose something that interferes with exploration is like Martin Luther King did not want his rights and that is why he "opposed" racists. Much like Luther I want something new and beneficial.
Please tell who is the close minded person in this situation because is surely isn't MLK.

Science is suppressed and reason is put on hold because of theism and religion. You talk about scientific inquiry yet you show the greatest amount of bias for your own religion and have not explained why you think Islam, Christianity or cultists have it wrong. You are basing your opinions off of Hinduism and your bias because for some odd reason you are a Hindu asserting that Hindu claims are valid and scientific.

All religions do this and it fails. It is a joke, Hinduism may be very advanced compared to many religions when it comes to societal treatment but it is still primitive and backwarded. It is not special, nor is atheism yet alone anti-theism special.

I abhor anything that is malignantly evil and insidious whether it wants to be or not.

 

[Shad]

Example 4: A dying girl left her body and into another room in the hospital where she found her older sister crying and saying:


"Oh, Kathy, please don't die, please don't die."

I see you have issues with reading comprehension. Look up the word local. You have provided an example which is local. Also the example could of been heard as it is in the next room without NDE...

 

[George-ananda]

What do you say about the scientists who say they have found out about the universe and its nature which is materialistic?

What do you say about Muhammad and his experiences. He knew very well Allah was real and your gods are not.



I find most of this to be completely bogus and every time it is investigated it never goes into detail. I was a firm believer in reincarnation until I realized it never goes any further than an interview.

Are you familiar with the kid who somehow experienced having past memories of being a kamikaze pilot or something of the like?

Laughable story. This is no more worst than Ian Stevenson fishing for evidence on this matter. Yet it turns out a lot of his research is bias.

Go to Saudi Arabia and you will find no evidence for reincarnation then do the same for India and all the sudden the evidence is "overwhelming!".

If culture affects the studies then obviously there is something wrong.

You never bring up NDEs because they are jokes and only jokes. Please tell me about the experiences of people and this tings and you will find one common theme. Every experience involves the person and THEIR idea of god. Go watch TBN and you will see what I mean



The universe is highly complex and highly beautiful. Adding supernaturalism and gods just taints it.

Being an anti-theist is the exact opposite of being close minded I may add, you are extremely close minded on the other hand.

To oppose something that interferes with exploration is like Martin Luther King did not want his rights and that is why he "opposed" racists. Much like Luther I want something new and beneficial.
Please tell who is the close minded person in this situation because is surely isn't MLK.

Science is suppressed and reason is put on hold because of theism and religion. You talk about scientific inquiry yet you show the greatest amount of bias for your own religion and have not explained why you think Islam, Christianity or cultists have it wrong. You are basing your opinions off of Hinduism and your bias because for some odd reason you are a Hindu asserting that Hindu claims are valid and scientific.

All religions do this and it fails. It is a joke, Hinduism may be very advanced compared to many religions when it comes to societal treatment but it is still primitive and backwarded. It is not special, nor is atheism yet alone anti-theism special.

I abhor anything that is malignantly evil and insidious whether it wants to be or not.

I am more of a universalist on religions; not a Hindu exclusivist. I disagree with almost everything above but I'm not going to detail as we will never make any headway together.

 

[George-ananda]

The story implied the sister was not physically with her and Kathy knew where she was

[/I]I see you have issues with reading comprehension.

I can easily provide multiple examples but I can see with your attitude it would come to not.

 

[Shad]

Yes but she was in the next room ie local..... She could of easily heard and lied about the whole thing. Hence why give me a verified example of an NDE in America in which someone experiences events across the nation or in another nation. How about 100 miles away even..

 

[Sha'irullah]

I am more of a universalist on religions; not a Hindu exclusivist. I disagree with almost everything above but I'm not going to detail as we will never make any headway together.

You now have picked an even worst opinion. This means everything you believe to be true is true. You have taken the route of Pickem Mixem to an extreme and now have assert not only a religious bias but a cognitive bias.
I can easily do the same thing and assert all of my personal opinions are backed by evidence.

By the way, my "spiritual moment" involved something best described as nymphs. Does this make it any more valid in truth? Am I a hypocrite for doubting Zeus and Hera despite the fact his daughters have messaged me?