What Can Atheism Lead To?

[Tristesse]

Define what a deity is? How is you are not understanding this?

Doesn't anything which fits the definition of a deity, become a deity? Or is a deity to you only what you say it is and what it isn't?

I don't define what a deity is, it's the job of the person who believes it to define what a deity is.

 

[footprints]

I don't define what a deity is, it's the job of the person who believes it to define what a deity is.

That just highlights the irrational position you have placed yourself in, for you are arguing what a deity is, and what a deity isn't. And, telling me I am wrong.

Furthermore you are agruing the postion that an atheist believes in the tooth fairy, spaghetti monster, flying teapot, pink unicorn et al.

Personally I think I have heard it all now.

Either which way, you have done atheism proud, with friends like you and others in this thread, atheism sure doesn't need enemies.

 

[footprints]

I never said deity, I said a god. And it's not my job to define what god people believe in. A ghost and a god are two separate things, so, you're changing what we're talking about.

God is an alledged deity.

A ghost and a deity are only seperate because you choose to make them seperate. Both are invisible entities which are alledged to visit people on a personal basis. Please keep to known facts, not what your imagination tells you is correct.

 

[Tristesse]

That just highlights the irrational position you have placed yourself in, for you are arguing what a deity is, and what a deity isn't. And, telling me I am wrong.

Furthermore you are arguing the postion that an atheist believes in the tooth fairy, spaghetti monster, flying teapot, pink unicorn et al.

Personally I think I have heard it all now.

Either which way, you have done atheism proud, with friends like you and others in this thread, atheism sure doesn't need enemies.

You have a real lack of understanding. I'm going to break it down for you really simplistically. Theism, is the position that a god exists, the prefix a- is the rejection of that claim. ATHEISM. It tells you nothing else about that person's beliefs, they can believe in the supernatural, they can believe in anything, but a god. Accepting the supernatural does not mean you accept a belief in a god. Most atheists don't believe in the supernatural, but some do. I hope this clears up the misperception.

 

[SpaceDuck]

Try the Swedish Government and census data, where credible people get their information from. Go straight to the source rather than through a back door and back alley. Albeit I am sure back alley statements prove your belief better than the original source.

I would very much like to see this source. Once again, membership of the Church of Sweden does not mean one is a christian (I, for one, am a member of the church and I am an atheist).

Also, I realise now that census might be the wrong word for what I was trying to describe and I apologize for that. What I meant was not that people filled in forms declaring themselves as a christian, rather that the Church of Sweden reporting that they have so-and-so many members.

 

[JMorris]

No different than it is now. We are dealing with humans, we always find a way to **** it up.

agreed

 

[linwood]

Deists are believers. Even if these studies are proven correct, it supports my case more than it does yours. The majority are believers, not atheists. And I am willing to give you 4%, 76% instead of 80%. It doesn't change the majority positon any.

I was unaware I had a "case" in this debate.
I don`t recall making such a commitment.

The point is Sweden is not a religious nation.
I`ve given evidence to support that point.

You`ve given nothing but commentary.
Rather sad commentary but I suppose it has some value in some way for someone..maybe.

Please cite your source as to the percentage of Swedish theists.

Try the Swedish Government and census data, where credible people get their information from. Go straight to the source rather than through a back door and back alley. Albeit I am sure back alley statements prove your belief better than the original source.

Yes, I`d love to but I can`t seem to find it .

Since you continuously make reference of it I thought you might cite your reference.

Please show me where you are getting your numbers.

However you`ve already been told that government numbers in Sweden are skewed by the Governments habit of "Picking" a religion for you at birth whether you want one or not.
We`ve also had at least one Swede post to this thread in disagreement with you.

I am quite sure however reality isn`t something that will get in the way of your willful ignorance.

Also, you should double check the definition of "Atheist" as you seem to be lacking knowledge of that concept as well.

Don`t let it worry you, we`ve all got to start somewhere.

 

[footprints]

You have a real lack of understanding. I'm going to break it down for you really simplistically. Theism, is the position that a god exists, the prefix a- is the rejection of that claim. ATHEISM. It tells you nothing else about that person's beliefs, they can believe in the supernatural, they can believe in anything, but a god. Accepting the supernatural does not mean you accept a belief in a god. Most atheists don't believe in the supernatural, but some do. I hope this clears up the misperception.

LOL, I am going to break it down for you really simplistically. Define who or what a Deity is?

I do hope this clears up the misconception.

 

[footprints]

I would very much like to see this source. Once again, membership of the Church of Sweden does not mean one is a christian (I, for one, am a member of the church and I am an atheist).

One cannot judge the rest of the people in the world on ones self.

Also, I realise now that census might be the wrong word for what I was trying to describe and I apologize for that. What I meant was not that people filled in forms declaring themselves as a christian, rather that the Church of Sweden reporting that they have so-and-so many members.

Countries take a census for a reason.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

That just highlights the irrational position you have placed yourself in, for you are arguing what a deity is, and what a deity isn't. And, telling me I am wrong.

No, they are asking you what you define as a deity.

Furthermore you are agruing the postion that an atheist believes in the tooth fairy, spaghetti monster, flying teapot, pink unicorn et al.

No, they said an atheist could believe in those things and still be an atheist, since atheism is lack of belief in and God and none of those things qualify as a God.

One cannot judge the rest of the people in the world on ones self.

They aren't "judging the world", they are simply making the point that membership to a church does not mean that you are a Christian, since they are a member of a church and not a Christian. They are not saying that all church members are not Christian or anything similar.

Why is it that you so badly mis-read, misrepresent and miss the point of everything that is said to you?

 

[footprints]

I was unaware I had a "case" in this debate.
I don`t recall making such a commitment.

I would agree with you, you do not have a case in this debate.

The point is Sweden is not a religious nation.
I`ve given evidence to support that point.

You gave evidence to the effect that 76% of all Swedes were believers of one form or another. Not Atheists, or non-believers. LOL you gave evidence to support my case.

You`ve given nothing but commentary.
Rather sad commentary but I suppose it has some value in some way for someone..maybe.

I can see how you would think it was sad, it really makes your rationaliy look bad.

LOL I do not need to do anything else, when I have people like you against me, who shoot themselves in the foot.

Please cite your source as to the percentage of Swedish theists.

I already have, the Swedish Census. You do understand what a census is, don't you?

Yes, I`d love to but I can`t seem to find it .

That doesn't surprise me. Now I wonder where we would get details pertaining to a Swedish census from.....??? Perhaps the US Government?

Since you continuously make reference of it I thought you might cite your reference.

LOL, I already have cited the source, the census report.

Please show me where you are getting your numbers.

LOL, I already have, the census report.

However you`ve already been told that government numbers in Sweden are skewed by the Governments habit of "Picking" a religion for you at birth whether you want one or not.
We`ve also had at least one Swede post to this thread in disagreement with you.

LOL, go read the census and if you are now trying to tell me the Swedish Government fills in the census form for Swede citizens, I would say there is no hope for you.

I cannot help the personal perceptions of one Swede poster in this forum. The vast majority of Swedes do not agree with him/her. The poster you refer to, is what is called a minority.

I am quite sure however reality isn`t something that will get in the way of your willful ignorance.

LOL, what we see in others is only in ourselves. Please put up some facts to support your case.

Also, you should double check the definition of "Atheist" as you seem to be lacking knowledge of that concept as well.

I fully understand the definition of Atheist. As I fully understand the definition of a Deity.

Don`t let it worry you, we`ve all got to start somewhere.

LOL,

 

[footprints]

No, they are asking you what you define as a deity.

LOL, I will play your silly little game Immortal Flame.... even though the facts of reality will deny you, as it has been me continually asking for people to define a deity.

A deity is anything, which any person on the face of the earth, says it is. That is their belief, and that is their perception. A tree can be a deity to the Australian aboriginal, and the atheist, well they have this strange belief in a flying teapot, spaghetti monsters, pink unicorns et al.

No, they said an atheist could believe in those things and still be an atheist, since atheism is lack of belief in and God and none of those things qualify as a God.

So are you the ruling body on what a deity is, and what a deity isn't? Get over yourself.

They aren't "judging the world", they are simply making the point that membership to a church does not mean that you are a Christian, since they are a member of a church and not a Christian. They are not saying that all church members are not Christian or anything similar.

I get the point which they are trying to make. Just like people not going to church doesn't mean they do not believe in a deity. It is an irrational, one sided, point of view, one unknown fact cancels out the other, and shouldn't be used in any rational debate.

Ten people in a room all dressed in the similar suits and you wouldn't know a believer from a non-believer if you tripped over them. An irrational viewpoint to conclude that you do.

All we can go by is the honesty and intelligence of people when they fill out a census form. Sorry to say, facts deny you, get used to it, your imagination doesn't count.

Why is it that you so badly mis-read, misrepresent and miss the point of everything that is said to you?

Spoken from a true atheist perception.

 

[Sunstone]

It is obvious atheism leads to a better complexion, healthier teeth and gums, and a superior gloss to one's mane.

 

[Tristesse]

LOL, I am going to break it down for you really simplistically. Define who or what a Deity is?

I do hope this clears up the misconception.

Thats not my job. The person who believes in a deity defines it. I don't define what god people believe in. Seeing as how I don't believe in all the different gods I've been presented with.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

A deity is anything, which any person on the face of the earth, says it is. That is their belief, and that is their perception. A tree can be a deity to the Australian aboriginal, and the atheist, well they have this strange belief in a flying teapot, spaghetti monsters, pink unicorns et al.

Indeed, and according to the Eurobarometer poll from 2005...

23% of Swedish citizens responded that "they believe there is a God".

From: http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/archives/ebs/ebs_225_report_en.pdf (page 11)

Public Opinion analysis - Homepage - (Eurobarometer site for those unfamiliar with what it is.)

So, by your own definition, that deity is anything any person says it is, only 23% of Swedish people believe there is a god, by however they're defining deity. Therefore, only 23% of Swedes are theists.

 

[footprints]

Indeed, and according to the Eurobarometer poll from 2005...

23% of Swedish citizens responded that "they believe there is a God".

From: http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/archives/ebs/ebs_225_report_en.pdf (page 11)

Public Opinion analysis - Homepage - (Eurobarometer site for those unfamiliar with what it is.)

So, by your own definition, that deity is anything any person says it is, only 23% of Swedish people believe there is a god, by however they're defining deity. Therefore, only 23% of Swedes are theists.

A census takes in 100% of the population. What percentage of the population did your offered survey take into consideration?

Sorry to say, facts deny you.

 

[footprints]

Thats not my job. The person who believes in a deity defines it. I don't define what god people believe in. Seeing as how I don't believe in all the different gods I've been presented with.

Then I would suggest, stop trying to narrow a deity down to your own belief. For by doing this, you are trying to define what a deity is, and what a deity isn't.

 

[Tristesse]

Then I would suggest, stop trying to narrow a deity down to your own belief. For by doing this, you are trying to define what a deity is, and what a deity isn't.

I never did narrow it to my own belief. All that I was saying is that a god is not required for a belief in the supernatural.

 

[footprints]

I never did narrow it to my own belief. All that I was saying is that a god is not required for a belief in the supernatural.

That is a fact, there are many deity figures around. God per se, is just one of them.

 

[Tristesse]

That is a fact, there are many deity figures around. God per se, is just one of them.

Ok, so, you actually agree with me. That was my only point. You can be an atheist and still believe in the supernatural.