What church is the true church?

[Walkntune]

=Shermana;3225079]The Sermon on the mount includes that anyone who teaches to break the least of the commandments shall be called the least in the kingdom. How is it a statement of promise of his love? It's a statement that if you love Jesus, you'll do what he teaches to do. Which involves obedience to the Mosaic Law as well as things like helping your poor brother in need. Except when it comes to helping your poor brothers in need, he says you'll BURN IN HELL, let me repeat that BURN IN HELL AND NOT BE SAVED if you refuse to do it. That is 100% inescapably all about action and behavior. Just like how he warns to not use your hand or foot or eye or whatnot in a way which causes you to burn in the fire. Your minimalist theology involves ignoring essentially everything Jesus says.

Not about breaking commandments. Its about walking in the conviction of truth by the Love of Christ that God provides in you and not by your own efforts and knowledge of good and evil.Remember this tree man ate from?
God takes away our heart of stone(heart based in law which was written in stone, and gives us a heart of flesh(Word became flesh and dwelt among us) Grace of Christ.
What does grace mean? It means unmerited mean? What does unmerited mean? It means favor that did not come by your effort.
Come on, this is not complicated.

Your interpretation of "Trust in the righteousness of Christ" equates to "Don't actually listen to what he says when he says do this or that or you will BURN IN HELL", and your interpretation of "Trust in your own righteousness" is "Actually listen to what Jesus says and believe in his teachings like when he says do this or that or you will BURN IN HELL".

When Jesus teaches to pray he says and lead me not into temptation?

The righteousness of Christ we are to trust in is that he was the prophecied Guilt offering, who serves as a sacrifice for your sins. This does not mean you get to ignore and get out of doing what he teaches to do. Quite the opposite, Hebrews 10:26-29 says if you continue to sin, you have nothing but "fiery idnignation" to look forward to.

Love covers a multitude of sins.

Jesus is quite clear that the "doers of Lawlessness" and those who don't obey the Will of God will be cast out and rejected.

Again its an obedience out of his love and efforts he provides and not that of your own.Unless you should boast of course as Paul says.

Your repeated attempt to associate any concept of believing there's works involved with your faith or adherence to believing in what Jesus taught flies in the face of virtually everything the NT says. To say it's not a matter of what you do or don't do or obey or don't obey may be comfortable to those who don't like the idea of having to make an effort or control themselves, but it's not at all what Jesus teaches. It's not even what Paul teaches. It's not what James teaches. It's not what Jude teaches, it's especially not what John teaches.

What is the curse that fell on man? If you choose to operate there then there can be no deliverance.

I don't know how else to explain it other than to post a wall of verses that explicitly explain what Jesus means and what he says, and you'd probably just ignore them like how you keep ignoring Matthew 25

Don't need you to explain. The Bible is clear.

 

[Shermana]

Not about breaking commandments. Its about walking in the conviction of truth by the Love of Christ that God provides in you and not by your own efforts and knowledge of good and evil.

And how does one walk in the "conviction of truth by the love of Christ that God provides" When he himself says that those who don't listen to him will be rejected, called the least, or burn in hell? You're basically denying 99.9999% of what Jesus actually says! You're flat out rejecting Jesus's words and replacing them with some quasi-Lutheran manmade Theology that doesn't at all incorporate what the NT even says.

You claim that the BIble speaks for itself, yet you have no answer to my repeated accusations that you are deliberately ignoring 99.999% of what it actually says. I don't know how else to say it!

Remember this tree man ate from?
God takes away our heart of stone(heart based in law which was written in stone, and gives us a heart of flesh(Word became flesh and dwelt among us) Grace of Christ.

That's from Ezekiel 36 which is about giving the Israelites a new desire to obey the commandments. Does the word context have any meaning to you?

What does grace mean? It means unmerited mean? What does unmerited mean? It means favor that did not come by your effort.
Come on, this is not complicated.

What's not complicated is that you're basically ignoring 99.9999% of what Jesus actually says on the matter. And James. And Peter and Jude and John. You haven't once even attempted to defend yourself from this accusation.

What did Jesus say to the Rich man when asked him how to achieve Eternal life? Follow the commandments.

And no, grace does not necessarily mean unmerited favor. If you fall out of someone's "good graces", it means you did something to earn their disapproval. The word "Grace" is used quite often to denote a conditional aspect. Jesus is clear that you must "Strive for the narrow gate". Paul says you must "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling". James asks what good is it to tell your impoverished brother

Love covers a multitude of sins.

And what is 'love"?

Jesus says that love is obedience to God's commandments. 1 John 5:3 says that the love of God is obedience to the commandments. Do you reject 1 John as well?

When Jesus teaches to pray he says and lead me not into temptation?Love covers a multitude of sins.Again its an obedience out of his love and efforts he provides and not that of your own.Unless you should boast of course as Paul says.

What do you think that even means? Obedience out of his love and efforts he provides? What does that mean? That he takes over your mind like a robot so that you will no longer break the commandments?

What is the curse that fell on man? If you choose to operate there then there can be no deliverance.
Don't need you to explain. The Bible is clear.

The Bible is very clear, and that's why you're ignoring 99.99999% of it.

Once again, and I've mentioned it four times and you haven't addressed it yet, probably for a reason, Jesus says that those who refuse to help their impoverished brothers will burn in hell.

It doesn't get much more clear.

Jesus says to avoid doing things that will cause you to enter the fire.

It doesn't get much more clear.

As you can see, you are demonstrating how such Theology ultimately involves rejecting Jesus's words altogether.

 

[Walkntune]

The bible is clear that when man fell the curse was to work the ground (provisions) by the sweat of his brow.If you believe that by operating in this curse and in your knowledge of good and evil will return you to Gods provisions then more power to you. If this was the case and how God wanted you to do it he never would have taken man out of the garden.You assume one can overcome their self efforts by self efforts.Even the twelve step programs are closer to the truth and that of reaching out to the hem of grace.Their first step is to admit they are powerless.I will wipe the dust off of my feet on this.

 

[Xchristian]

John 17:17 Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth.

another mistake made by jesus, he was talking to unknowns, we only think we know of one, St Judas the Escariot.

and another mistake made by you, .... the books we have compiled by the trinitarians was not written by the people he was speaking to,
it was written by third or fourth hand witnesses.

 

[CG Didymus]

In the parable of The Good Samaritan, Luke 10:30-34 Jesus said:

“A man...was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He... bandaged his wounds...and took care of him."

Action and behavior, to me, is the "true church" It's not the "right" doctrines and dogmas. The right belief means to put into action commandments to love one another. Anybody from any religion or from no religion can be The Good Samaritan, so the "true church" are the people that live their faith by doing it, by showing and giving love. So in that sense I agree with Shermana. But since I can't do it out of my own power, I understand what Walkntune is saying, but because he said in post 228: (Could you comment on my thread about Matthew taking Isaiah chapter 7 out of context?)

I don't address scriptures out of context.Truth must come from using the whole Bible in context.Why I take you to the NT then back it up with the OT.

I think he has to include James' argument that a true member of the true church should show his/her faith by the good works they do. We can't "say" we love God or Jesus and not help the needy (Hmmm? Do right-wing conservative Christians help the needy or the greedy?). If we throw in Rev. 3:16, then most people sitting in church buildings don't quality as being part of the "True" Church. They've lost their first love. They are beyond lukewarm. And, they are not a light unto the world, they blend right in with the world. Yet, if you ask them, they have the right beliefs, but no action, no doing. They pass by me all the time as I lay bleeding on the side of the road.

 

[McBell]

The bible is clear that ...

:biglaugh:
Every time I see or hear this nonsense I can be pretty sure the one saying or writing it is full of it.

Funny how the Bible is so "clear" that that there ended up over 30,000 versions of Christianity....

 

[CG Didymus]

One thing is not clear, before Christianity, was there one true synagogue? If so then what about after Jesus came? It was no longer the true synagogue? After the apostles all died, was the Catholic Church the true church? If it was, then when did it quit being the true church? If it wasn't, then were all those bishops in the early church already wrong? Did Luther have a true church? Or Calvin? When Jesus said that his followers would have certain "signs" does that mean Pentecostals are the true church?

 

[Desert Snake]

One thing is not clear, before Christianity, was there one true synagogue?

No.

If so then what about after Jesus came? It was no longer the true synagogue?

There was no "true synagogue".

Did Luther have a true church? Or Calvin? When Jesus said that his followers would have certain "signs" does that mean Pentecostals are the true church?

define "true" in this sense, same for Calvin, that's debateable.

 

[Walkntune]

The one true church. This is simple. It is not the churches that are sinconscious and casting judgment and condemnation on a sinful world.It is not those walking self righteous and holy following laws.The only true disciples of Christ are those who love one another.
John 13;35
By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one to another.

 

[Pegg]

The one true church. This is simple. It is not the churches that are sinconscious and casting judgment and condemnation on a sinful world.It is not those walking self righteous and holy following laws.The only true disciples of Christ are those who love one another.
John 13;35
By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one to another.

good point...christians who follow Jesus counsel would not be at war with one another, either spiritually or physically

 

[Desert Snake]

The one true church. This is simple. It is not the churches that are sinconscious and casting judgment and condemnation on a sinful world.

So, sin is "o.k." in your book, or you ignore it, or what. So Christianity is completely a personal religion to you?

 

[Walkntune]

So, sin is "o.k." in your book, or you ignore it, or what. So Christianity is completely a personal religion to you?

When we become more conscous of Christ instead of sinconscious we will no longer walk in judgement of ourselves and others and where we stand in Christ. We will know that we are his by our love towards each other.There will be no condemnation. We will remove the stumbleing blocks that place condemnation on ourselves and the world.Church will be a place where a sinner will feel loved instead of condemned. Jesus will be someone they can come to inspite of their sins like the women who had an issue of blood. It was against the law for her to be in public with her uncleaness much less touch someone yet she reached out in faith and touched the hem of Christs garment.God does not want you to be afraid to come to him even when you are unclean. When people come to church they should feel love and acceptance no matter what sins they have. They should not feel as though they have to get right to recieve from Christ. If they feel condemned then the message being preached is not the gospel!

 

[Desert Snake]

When we become more conscous of Christ instead of sinconscious we will no longer walk in judgement of ourselves and others and where we stand in Christ. We will know that we are his by our love towards each other.There will be no condemnation. We will remove the stumbleing blocks that place condemnation on ourselves and the world.Church will be a place where a sinner will feel loved instead of condemned. Jesus will be someone they can come to inspite of their sins like the women who had an issue of blood. It was against the law for her to be in public with her uncleaness much less touch someone yet she reached out in faith and touched the hem of Christs garment.God does not want you to be afraid to come to him even when you are unclean. When people come to church they should feel love and acceptance no matter what sins they have. They should not feel as though they have to get right to recieve from Christ. If they feel condemned then the message being preached is not the gospel!

This is true, but Christians should be "sinconcious" to the extent that it affects daily life, not just church, otherwise, how do expect to change anything?

Also. Xians have to judge things otherwise they become hypocritical.

 

[Walkntune]

This is true, but Christians should be "sinconcious" to the extent that it affects daily life, not just church, otherwise, how do expect to change anything?

Just love God with all of your heart and your neighbor as yourself.This is what you shoud do.

 

[Shermana]

Just love God with all of your heart and your neighbor as yourself.This is what you shoud do.

1 john 5:3

The love of God is obedience to the commandments.

 

[Desert Snake]

Just love God with all of your heart and your neighbor as yourself.This is what you shoud do.

This isn't enough to affect change, I think you're ignoring to some extent other verses that give Xians a clearer purpose.

 

[Walkntune]

This isn't enough to affect change, I think you're ignoring to some extent other verses that give Xians a clearer purpose.

You need to elaborate your statement.

 

[Desert Snake]

You need to elaborate your statement.

O.k. I will, but seriously? You know Scripture better than I do, but hey, o.k.

 

[Desert Snake]

Timothy 4:2

"reprove, rebuke" doesn't sound like 'hey everything is o.k.'

 

[Walkntune]

O.k. I will, but seriously? You know Scripture better than I do, but hey, o.k.

This came across self righteous.Not sure as I don't know you or your knowledge.