What church is the true church?

[InChrist]

In rev 7 it doesnt say the great crowd is in heaven, one is just assuming it is saying that--In reality at that point in time it wont matter where one is standing--earth,moon,or heaven, they will be before the throne, because Gods kingdom( govt) will be the only ruling power left in existence.

If you read the context of Revelation chapters 6,7, and 8 you will see that this vision given to John of the great multitude before the throne is a scene which takes place right between the sixth seal and the seventh seal of God's judgment being pouring on the earth during the tribulation even before the trumpet and bowl judgments have occurred. At this point of the revelation the governments of the earth are still in existence and in the process of being punished. So the scene of the great multitude, which the text says is before the throne, is clearly in heaven with the angels who are also before the throne of God. It is also during this same time frame between the sixth and seventh seals of God's judgment on the earth that the 144.000 of the tribes of Israel (Jews) are sealed as servants of God giving them protect from the destruction coming upon the earth.

And again at rev 19-- there is a great multitude of angels allready in heaven, it doesnt say its the great crowd from the earth, again you are assuming.
Gods word isnt open to personal interpretations, that is a major problem on this earth and the reason why there are 1000,s of different religions claiming to be christian, but for 99% of them this is their reality-2 cor 11:12-15.

[/quote]

Read Revelation 19 again...

After these things I heard a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “Alleluia! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Lord our God! Rev. 19:1

It says the great multitude in heaven and these are believers praising God for salvation. Angels do not need or have salvation.

You cannot apply your own personal interpretation or worse yet blindly trust the Watchtower interpretation to tell you that the great multitude means people in one verse and then change the meaning to mean angels in another verse. When read in context and consistently the Bible interprets itself. The real problem is that people believe various leaders and teachers without prayerfully searching the scriptures and thoroughly checking to make sure what they are being taught is true, as the Bereans did even with the teachings of Paul and Silas. ( Acts17:11). My perspective is that you are assuming everything the Watchtower teaches is trustworthy.

 

[kjw47]

If you read the context of Revelation chapters 6,7, and 8 you will see that this vision given to John of the great multitude before the throne is a scene which takes place right between the sixth seal and the seventh seal of God's judgment being pouring on the earth during the tribulation even before the trumpet and bowl judgments have occurred. At this point of the revelation the governments of the earth are still in existence and in the process of being punished. So the scene of the great multitude, which the text says is before the throne, is clearly in heaven with the angels who are also before the throne of God. It is also during this same time frame between the sixth and seventh seals of God's judgment on the earth that the 144.000 of the tribes of Israel (Jews) are sealed as servants of God giving them protect from the destruction coming upon the earth.

Read Revelation 19 again...

After these things I heard a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “Alleluia! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Lord our God! Rev. 19:1

It says the great multitude in heaven and these are believers praising God for salvation. Angels do not need or have salvation.

You cannot apply your own personal interpretation or worse yet blindly trust the Watchtower interpretation to tell you that the great multitude means people in one verse and then change the meaning to mean angels in another verse. When read in context and consistently the Bible interprets itself. The real problem is that people believe various leaders and teachers without prayerfully searching the scriptures and thoroughly checking to make sure what they are being taught is true, as the Bereans did even with the teachings of Paul and Silas. ( Acts17:11). My perspective is that you are assuming everything the Watchtower teaches is trustworthy.[/quote]



rev isnt in chronological order--
the majority of 144,000 are allready in heaven, they went during the first ressurection.
Yes i put trust into the teachers of the wts-- i compared the teachings of Jesus and they are the only ones teaching what Jesus taught. The only ones concerned enough to have truth, that they constantly keep seeking it and making required changes when needed. They teach the true God and the true Jesus.

 

[InChrist]

rev isnt in chronological order--
the majority of 144,000 are allready in heaven, they went during the first ressurection.
Yes i put trust into the teachers of the wts-- i compared the teachings of Jesus and they are the only ones teaching what Jesus taught. The only ones concerned enough to have truth, that they constantly keep seeking it and making required changes when needed. They teach the true God and the true Jesus.

Who says Revelation is not in chronological order? When read in a plain and straightforward way is sure does sound like it flows in chronological order. So why should it not be taken that way? Because some teacher who claims authority has said it's not? Who has taught you that most of the 144,000 are already in heaven? I ask because when simply reading the words of the scriptures it shows them being sealed on earth.

For years I read materials and listened to others teaching "what the Bible says". You would not believe the amount of literature I had from one group in particular, but also others, which I now know to be cults (not Watchtower material, BTW). Magazines, pamphlets, and books dealing with every subject all telling what the Bible had to say and their interpretations of the scriptures. Although I read the Bible, my perspective was tainted because it was always through the lens and ideas I was already reading in the other literature telling me what the scriptures were saying. This was my mistake...a very big mistake. One day, after much prayer and seeking God for direction, the thought came to me...why not trust the scriptures alone without all the other piles of literature? That is exactly what I did and the LORD has been my trusted teacher ever since as He and only He should be.

 

[McBell]

Who says Revelation is not in chronological order? When read in a plain and straightforward way is sure does sound like it flows in chronological order. So why should it not be taken that way? Because some teacher who claims authority has said it's not? Who has taught you that most of the 144,000 are already in heaven? I ask because when simply reading the words of the scriptures it shows them being sealed on earth.

For years I read materials and listened to others teaching "what the Bible says". You would not believe the amount of literature I had from one group in particular, but also others, which I now know to be cults (not Watchtower material, BTW). Magazines, pamphlets, and books dealing with every subject all telling what the Bible had to say and their interpretations of the scriptures. Although I read the Bible, my perspective was tainted because it was always through the lens and ideas I was already reading in the other literature telling me what the scriptures were saying. This was my mistake...a very big mistake. One day, after much prayer and seeking God for direction, the thought came to me...why not trust the scriptures alone without all the other piles of literature? That is exactly what I did and the LORD has been my trusted teacher ever since as He and only He should be.

That seems to be an awfully long winded way to say that you have decided to dismiss everything about the Bible except what you want it to be saying.

 

[Pegg]

Here they are in heaven with the angels before the throne of God:

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, Revelation 7:9-11

And again here the scriptures speaks of the great crowd (multitude) in heaven:

After these things I heard a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “Alleluia! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Lord our God! Revelation 19:1

i hate to say it, but that verse doesnt say the ones clothed in white robes are in heaven. It says they are "standing before the throne and before the Lamb" but it doesnt say they are in heaven.
Chapter 19 only says John heard a multitude in heaven singing praise to God, it doesnt say these are 'the people from tribes and nation and tongues'

 

[InChrist]

i hate to say it, but that verse doesnt say the ones clothed in white robes are in heaven. It says they are "standing before the throne and before the Lamb" but it doesnt say they are in heaven.
Chapter 19 only says John heard a multitude in heaven singing praise to God, it doesnt say these are 'the people from tribes and nation and tongues'

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God... Revelation 7:9-11


So are you saying that the passage above describes a multitude on earth in white robes? Is God's throne also on the earth or is it in heaven? Are the angels, the elders, and four living creatures in heaven or are they on the earth?

 

[brucebroadwood]

Dearest reader. To seek out The true church of Jesus Christ on the earth one must be prepared to offer his or her whole soul to Christ or in other words take up your cross and follow Him. Read the parable of the sower of the seeds. The true Church of Jesus Christ on the earth will function almost identically to the original church which Jesus Christ had organized when He was on the earth. It will have a prophet who recieves revelation for the church as a whole. There will be no paid clergy in Christ's true church or in other words 100% of tithes paid will be for the building up of the church and for the benefit of the poor and needy. There is not enough space here to write down all the evidence that proves that Jesus Christ truly did restore his church to the earth, but the restoration did occur 182 years ago. One final note, the true church will bear the name of Jesus Christ... If you require further information feel free to contact me via my email.

 

[kjw47]

Who says Revelation is not in chronological order? When read in a plain and straightforward way is sure does sound like it flows in chronological order. So why should it not be taken that way? Because some teacher who claims authority has said it's not? Who has taught you that most of the 144,000 are already in heaven? I ask because when simply reading the words of the scriptures it shows them being sealed on earth.

For years I read materials and listened to others teaching "what the Bible says". You would not believe the amount of literature I had from one group in particular, but also others, which I now know to be cults (not Watchtower material, BTW). Magazines, pamphlets, and books dealing with every subject all telling what the Bible had to say and their interpretations of the scriptures. Although I read the Bible, my perspective was tainted because it was always through the lens and ideas I was already reading in the other literature telling me what the scriptures were saying. This was my mistake...a very big mistake. One day, after much prayer and seeking God for direction, the thought came to me...why not trust the scriptures alone without all the other piles of literature? That is exactly what I did and the LORD has been my trusted teacher ever since as He and only He should be.

If the Lord was your trusted teacher--you would know that their is no trinity God in existence, and the God served by Abraham,Moses,Daniel, etc was a single being God named YHWH(Jehovah) thus John 1:1 is a mistranslated verse to fit false council teachings.
The world has seen many stand up and say the HS will teach me truth--so now we have 33,000 disunified religions claiming to be christian. 1 cor 1:10,, 2 cor 11:12-15

 

[Ken Brown]

Dearest reader. To seek out The true church of Jesus Christ on the earth one must be prepared to offer his or her whole soul to Christ or in other words take up your cross and follow Him. Read the parable of the sower of the seeds. The true Church of Jesus Christ on the earth will function almost identically to the original church which Jesus Christ had organized when He was on the earth. It will have a prophet who recieves revelation for the church as a whole. There will be no paid clergy in Christ's true church or in other words 100% of tithes paid will be for the building up of the church and for the benefit of the poor and needy. There is not enough space here to write down all the evidence that proves that Jesus Christ truly did restore his church to the earth, but the restoration did occur 182 years ago. One final note, the true church will bear the name of Jesus Christ... If you require further information feel free to contact me via my email.

Hi brucebroadwood, then I suspect you are in agreement that the One True Church was totally destroyed with the departure of the Apostles, and that the apostasy occurred then? Do you know anything about the New Moon? KB

 

[InChrist]

That seems to be an awfully long winded way to say that you have decided to dismiss everything about the Bible except what you want it to be saying.

That may be easy for you to say as an Apathetic Agnostic, but I did not believe the things the Bible had to say because they were things I wanted it to be saying. I did not want to hear what the Bible had to say anymore than anyone else...I just happened to reach the point of realizing the things it said which applied to me personally were true.

 

[CG Didymus]

If the Lord was your trusted teacher--you would know that their is no trinity God in existence, and the God served by Abraham,Moses,Daniel, etc was a single being God named YHWH(Jehovah) thus John 1:1 is a mistranslated verse to fit false council teachings.
The world has seen many stand up and say the HS will teach me truth--so now we have 33,000 disunified religions claiming to be christian. 1 cor 1:10,, 2 cor 11:12-15

There is so much I like about God not being a trinity. If God is Spirit, I'm sure he can appear to be whatever he wants. But, in essence, why would Spirit have to be three different things at once, but whatever. How is anyone going to prove it.

Which churches do the most in going out and spreading his Word? The ones on TV? The one that can claim Billy Graham as a member? JW's and Mormons, I mean members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, come right to my house. Who else even bothers?

The Catholics can claim a line from Peter to whoever the new Pope is going to be. That's impressive, but does anyone other than Catholics believe they are really the "true" church. But you know the Jews stumbled and made mistakes, yet they were and are God's chosen people. Can the Catholic Church still claim they are the true church even with all their mistakes?

So what should I do? How will I know if any of you are the true church? Because your doctrines are more Biblical than another church's? By your love for one another? By being the "good" Samaritans and helping others? Every church can claim to have these things. Why is your church the right one? And why are all the other thousands off base?

 

[InChrist]

Dearest reader. To seek out The true church of Jesus Christ on the earth one must be prepared to offer his or her whole soul to Christ or in other words take up your cross and follow Him. Read the parable of the sower of the seeds. The true Church of Jesus Christ on the earth will function almost identically to the original church which Jesus Christ had organized when He was on the earth. It will have a prophet who recieves revelation for the church as a whole. There will be no paid clergy in Christ's true church or in other words 100% of tithes paid will be for the building up of the church and for the benefit of the poor and needy. There is not enough space here to write down all the evidence that proves that Jesus Christ truly did restore his church to the earth, but the restoration did occur 182 years ago. One final note, the true church will bear the name of Jesus Christ... If you require further information feel free to contact me via my email.

Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. Jude 1:3

The church established by Jesus Christ and His gospel which was once for all delivered to the saints and has been in existence on the earth since He did so. There have been faithful believers in Christ on the earth continuously from then until the present. There was no restoration needed or which occurred in the 1800's.

 

[InChrist]

There is so much I like about God not being a trinity. If God is Spirit, I'm sure he can appear to be whatever he wants. But, in essence, why would Spirit have to be three different things at once, but whatever. How is anyone going to prove it.

Which churches do the most in going out and spreading his Word? The ones on TV? The one that can claim Billy Graham as a member? JW's and Mormons, I mean members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, come right to my house. Who else even bothers?

The Catholics can claim a line from Peter to whoever the new Pope is going to be. That's impressive, but does anyone other than Catholics believe they are really the "true" church. But you know the Jews stumbled and made mistakes, yet they were and are God's chosen people. Can the Catholic Church still claim they are the true church even with all their mistakes?

So what should I do? How will I know if any of you are the true church? Because your doctrines are more Biblical than another church's? By your love for one another? By being the "good" Samaritans and helping others? Every church can claim to have these things. Why is your church the right one? And why are all the other thousands off base?

These were the same questions I asked. I was raised in the Catholic Church which claimed to be the true Church. Then I converted to Mormonism and the LDS church claimed to be the true Church. Afterwards I became involved with the Worldwide Church of God and this group also claimed to be the true Church. And of course there are several others which make this claim, too. Throughout all this I had read the various literature of each group making this claim. Needless to say, It was confusing, but I sincerely wanted to find that true church...wherever it was. I couldn't sleep. I'd wake up and ask God to show me where or which one is the true church. One day my husband said, "I am beginning to think there is no organization or group that is the true church. I think the scriptures are saying that all who accept Jesus as their Savior and belong to Him are the true church." That was the beginning of an important realization for me which led me directly to Christ.

 

[InChrist]

If the Lord was your trusted teacher--you would know that their is no trinity God in existence, and the God served by Abraham,Moses,Daniel, etc was a single being God named YHWH(Jehovah) thus John 1:1 is a mistranslated verse to fit false council teachings.
The world has seen many stand up and say the HS will teach me truth--so now we have 33,000 disunified religions claiming to be christian. 1 cor 1:10,, 2 cor 11:12-15

Actually, the scriptures show throughout the triune nature of God. Even humans made in His image have a triune nature: body, soul, and spirit and the universe we live in: time, space. matter reflect this truth about God.

The "Christian" world may have many denominations which are not in unity and which I will not deny have been tainted by apostasy, but all true born-again believers in Jesus Christ are unified in the fundamental truths of the Bible and in Christ.

 

[Ken Brown]

Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. Jude 1:3

The church established by Jesus Christ and His gospel which was once for all delivered to the saints and has been in existence on the earth since He did so. There have been faith believers in Christ on the earth continuously from then until the present. There was no restoration needed or which occurred in the 1800's.

Hi InChrist, so it appears that you do not know about the The New Moon? Why were all of the NT writers warning about contending for the faith? Don't you know an Apostasy (a falling away) was predicted? What makes you think the Apostasy did not occur? KB

 

[InChrist]

Hi brucebroadwood, then I suspect you are in agreement that the One True Church was totally destroyed with the departure of the Apostles, and that the apostasy occurred then? Do you know anything about the New Moon? KB

Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. Jude 1:3

The church established by Jesus Christ and His gospel which was once for all delivered to the saints and has been in existence on the earth since He did so. There have been faithful believers in Christ on the earth continuously from then until the present.

 

[Shermana]

Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. Jude 1:3

The church established by Jesus Christ and His gospel which was once for all delivered to the saints and has been in existence on the earth since He did so. There have been faithful believers in Christ on the earth continuously from then until the present.

I don't believe the Nazarenes and Ebionites died out completely either. Just went underground.

 

[McBell]

That may be easy for you to say as an Apathetic Agnostic, but I did not believe the things the Bible had to say because they were things I wanted it to be saying. I did not want to hear what the Bible had to say anymore than anyone else...I just happened to reach the point of realizing the things it said which applied to me personally were true.

and that is not at all what I said, now is it?

You stated, in your overly worded sermon, that you will not accept anything that contradicts your own person interpretation of the Bible.

 

[SaintAugustine]

well, of course....mine is...........

 

[InChrist]

and that is not at all what I said, now is it?

You stated, in your overly worded sermon, that you will not accept anything that contradicts your own person interpretation of the Bible.

Those were not my words, nor what I said.