What church is the true church?

[InChrist]

I don't believe the Nazarenes and Ebionites died out completely either. Just went underground.

You may very well be correct, but I don't know the history of the Nazarenes and Ebionites.

 

[NIX]

"true church" basically means "version of 'the church' I like best".

 

[Shermana]

Dearest reader. To seek out The true church of Jesus Christ on the earth one must be prepared to offer his or her whole soul to Christ or in other words take up your cross and follow Him. Read the parable of the sower of the seeds. The true Church of Jesus Christ on the earth will function almost identically to the original church which Jesus Christ had organized when He was on the earth. It will have a prophet who recieves revelation for the church as a whole. There will be no paid clergy in Christ's true church or in other words 100% of tithes paid will be for the building up of the church and for the benefit of the poor and needy. There is not enough space here to write down all the evidence that proves that Jesus Christ truly did restore his church to the earth, but the restoration did occur 182 years ago. One final note, the true church will bear the name of Jesus Christ... If you require further information feel free to contact me via my email.

You have a 10,000 character limit, let's see you use at least 1,000 to prove that Jesus did restore his church on earth 182 years ago.

(And if you need more than 10,000 you can post more than once).

Interesting you believe in tithes, so what other parts of the Mosaic Law are still binding?

(Note: I believe ALL the Mosaic Law is and always was binding in Jesus's church).

 

[McBell]

Those were not my words, nor what I said.

I agree that those were not your words.
You tried really hard to disguise it with all manner of flowery self righteous puffery.
But once all the puffery, flowery language, and self righteousness are removed, all that is left is that you will not accept anything that contradicts your own person interpretation of the Bible.

 

[kjw47]

There is so much I like about God not being a trinity. If God is Spirit, I'm sure he can appear to be whatever he wants. But, in essence, why would Spirit have to be three different things at once, but whatever. How is anyone going to prove it.

Which churches do the most in going out and spreading his Word? The ones on TV? The one that can claim Billy Graham as a member? JW's and Mormons, I mean members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, come right to my house. Who else even bothers?

The Catholics can claim a line from Peter to whoever the new Pope is going to be. That's impressive, but does anyone other than Catholics believe they are really the "true" church. But you know the Jews stumbled and made mistakes, yet they were and are God's chosen people. Can the Catholic Church still claim they are the true church even with all their mistakes?

So what should I do? How will I know if any of you are the true church? Because your doctrines are more Biblical than another church's? By your love for one another? By being the "good" Samaritans and helping others? Every church can claim to have these things. Why is your church the right one? And why are all the other thousands off base?

The israelites were cut off from being Gods chosen ones- Matt 23:37-38) Unless they turn and accept Jesus as the messiah--they will not.
Comparing the real teachings of Jesus with what ones teachers or religion teaches is a good way to find who is teaching truths. like this most important teaching----- Therefore, keep on seeking first the kingdom and his( Jehovah) righteousness, and all these other things will be added.

 

[kjw47]

Hi brucebroadwood, then I suspect you are in agreement that the One True Church was totally destroyed with the departure of the Apostles, and that the apostasy occurred then? Do you know anything about the New Moon? KB

A good day to you Ken Brown,, You are right in that truth died with the apostles and christians when thrown to the lions--- yes the great apostasy rose up and held councils because they didnt know truths. many branches broke off trying to correct the major errors but they never did correct them. And we find that truths would be hidden until these last days and then become abundant( Daniel 12:4) And it has.

 

[CG Didymus]

...truth died with the apostles and christians when thrown to the lions--- yes the great apostasy rose up and held councils because they didnt know truths. many branches broke off trying to correct the major errors but they never did correct them. And we find that truths would be hidden until these last days and then become abundant( Daniel 12:4) And it has.

Yet, those early Christians picked which books got into the canon?

 

[Shiranui117]

A good day to you Ken Brown,, You are right in that truth died with the apostles and christians when thrown to the lions--- yes the great apostasy rose up and held councils because they didnt know truths. many branches broke off trying to correct the major errors but they never did correct them. And we find that truths would be hidden until these last days and then become abundant( Daniel 12:4) And it has.

So those who were personally taught by the Apostles, and the bishops that were personally appointed by the Apostles, just randomly decided to go off the rails right after their teachers and companions died? I'm sorry, but that's not a convincing argument. At least Shermana can make decent arguments for his theory that the early Church started out Torah-obedient but then caved with the massive influx of Gentiles.

 

[kjw47]

Yet, those early Christians picked which books got into the canon?

Actually i would say that God picked which books. The books he inspired.

 

[InChrist]

I agree that those were not your words.
You tried really hard to disguise it with all manner of flowery self righteous puffery.
But once all the puffery, flowery language, and self righteousness are removed, all that is left is that you will not accept anything that contradicts your own person interpretation of the Bible.

Is this the post below which you are referring to with the "puffery, flowery language, self-righteousness"?

For years I read materials and listened to others teaching "what the Bible says". You would not believe the amount of literature I had from one group in particular, but also others, which I now know to be cults (not Watchtower material, BTW). Magazines, pamphlets, and books dealing with every subject all telling what the Bible had to say and their interpretations of the scriptures. Although I read the Bible, my perspective was tainted because it was always through the lens and ideas I was already reading in the other literature telling me what the scriptures were saying. This was my mistake...a very big mistake. One day, after much prayer and seeking God for direction, the thought came to me...why not trust the scriptures alone without all the other piles of literature? That is exactly what I did and the LORD has been my trusted teacher ever since as He and only He should be.

I shared my experience, but if you think my words are only puffery and flowery, maybe you could point out just exactly the words which fit that description. I would prefer to express myself in a way that is clear and plain without flowery language, so I welcome your insights. As far as, being self-righteous, well, I find that ironic. Who wants to be told they are doing wrong and sinning, especially in this age where the mindset is that right and wrong are relative? Who wants to be told the things they believed were false? Not me... but the scriptures revealed to me that my mindset and thinking was wrong, that I am a sinner and that I needed a Savior...not a religion. It was not what I wanted to hear, but when I did realize it was true I could not contradict the word of God and had to accept it.

 

[Ken Brown]

A good day to you Ken Brown,, You are right in that truth died with the apostles and christians when thrown to the lions--- yes the great apostasy rose up and held councils because they didnt know truths. many branches broke off trying to correct the major errors but they never did correct them. And we find that truths would be hidden until these last days and then become abundant( Daniel 12:4) And it has.

Hi kjw47, a good day to you as well. Yes, the great apostasy occurred, do you know anything about the "strong delusion?" KB

 

[idea]

A restoration was needed after the apostasy...

[youtube]7CtS_VNR6-I[/youtube]
Mormon Beliefs: Apostasy & Restoration - LDS - 1/2 - YouTube

 

[InChrist]

It is the claim made by every pseudo-Christian every cult. Every one of them says that the original church started by Jesus Christ fell into complete apostasy, the present Christian church is false, and that their initial leader restored the "truth." But the scriptures are clear the faith was once for all delivered.

Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. Jude 1;3

 

[Shermana]

It is the claim made by every pseudo-Christian every cult. Every one of them says that the original church started by Jesus Christ fell into complete apostasy, the present Christian church is false, and that their initial leader restored the "truth." But the scriptures are clear the faith was once for all delivered.

Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. Jude 1;3

So which group of people had the full and complete message that was "Once for all delivered" (TO THE SAINTS) all that time? Is there a list of their doctrines and theological precepts?

Personally I think the Didache is a good place to start.

 

[CG Didymus]

It is the claim made by every pseudo-Christian every cult. Every one of them says that the original church started by Jesus Christ fell into complete apostasy, the present Christian church is false, and that their initial leader restored the "truth." But the scriptures are clear the faith was once for all delivered.

Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. Jude 1;3

What do you believe about the Catholic Church? Apostate or not?

 

[InChrist]

What do you believe about the Catholic Church? Apostate or not?

As one who was raised Catholic and never heard the true gospel message or never was told I only needed Jesus as Savior and Mediator, but instead was pointed to priests, the pope, rituals, and the institution of the Catholic Church as the way to God, I would say the Catholic Church is apostate from the truth of the scriptures.

 

[Shermana]

As one who was raised Catholic and never heard the true gospel message or never was told I only needed Jesus as Savior and Mediator, but instead was pointed to priests, the pope, rituals, and the institution of the Catholic Church as the way to God, I would say the Catholic Church is apostate from the truth of the scriptures.

And the scriptures are quite clear that you need to more than just "need Jesus as Savior and Mediator", that you have to "walk as he walked" and obey all his teachings, so which group has all the correct interpretations of his teachings? Obviously these Minimalist "Just believe in Jesus" beliefs are just as incorrect as these ones that overdress it up with things that aren't found in the scripture or based on severe twisting. After all, rejecting 99% of what Jesus teaches can't possibly be what the "True Church" believes, right?

Even Paul broke bread in a Eucharistic fashion.

 

[InChrist]

So which group of people had the full and complete message that was "Once for all delivered" (TO THE SAINTS) all that time? Is there a list of their doctrines and theological precepts?

Personally I think the Didache is a good place to start.

Those who are born-again and belong to Christ and gather in His name.

For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.” Matthew 18:20

 

[Shermana]

Those who are born-again and belong to Christ and gather in His name.

For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.” Matthew 18:20

So then, no need to worry about all those actual teachings. It doesn't matter what denomination you are. Anyone from JW to Mormon to Moonies to Nicolations who gathers together "in Jesus's name" is part of this true Church.

How nice, it must be rather convenient to not have to worry about 99.999% of what Jesus actually teaches.

A universalist I presume?

 

[kjw47]

Hi kjw47, a good day to you as well. Yes, the great apostasy occurred, do you know anything about the "strong delusion?" KB

I am not sure what you mean by the strong delusion.