What church is the true church?

[Ken Brown]

I am not sure what you mean by the strong delusion.

(2Thes 2:11)
And for this cause Elohim shall send them "strong delusion," that they should believe a lie:

I'm seriously considering starting a thread called "The Strong Delusion." Almost all of traditional christianity is under this delusion. You see, IF the Apostasy did occur, and the "love of the Truth" was no longer received, then this "strong delusion" was sent by Elohim upon those who did not believe in the Truth. The foundation of traditional christianity is built upon this "strong delusion," and it is a big whopper of a lie. KB

 

[kjw47]

(2Thes 2:11)
And for this cause Elohim shall send them "strong delusion," that they should believe a lie:

I'm seriously considering starting a thread called "The Strong Delusion." Almost all of traditional christianity is under this delusion. You see, IF the Apostasy did occur, and the "love of the Truth" was no longer received, then this "strong delusion" was sent by Elohim upon those who did not believe in the Truth. The foundation of traditional christianity is built upon this "strong delusion," and it is a big whopper of a lie. KB

The world showed how it felt about truth back in Jesus' day-- Jesus sent them out by twos teaching the good news of the kingdom and in turn the world murdered all of them.( Jesus,apostles and followers)

 

[jtartar]

There are nearly ten thousand flavors of Christianity today. When we add to the mix the churches that did not survive to the present date, the number of churches are even higher. What criteria should a person use to determine the true church? I define the “true church” as a church that teaches an accurate teaching of Jesus Christ. If you know of such a church, please explain in detail why that church is the true church.

Roger,
According to the slayer, no one can tell another which is the true church, even though this is the order of Jesus, in fact one of the main reasons Jesus came to earth. I just pointed out some things that were requirements and I got threatened.
If you tell anyone about Christianity, as Jesus ordered, you are an outlaw to the Slayer. I wonder what he is going to say to Jesus when he comes and finds out he has been hindering the truth of God's word.

 

[Ken Brown]

The world showed how it felt about truth back in Jesus' day-- Jesus sent them out by twos teaching the good news of the kingdom and in turn the world murdered all of them.( Jesus,apostles and followers)

Hi kjw47, and that is why a "strong delusion" was given to the world. KB

 

[Pegg]

Hi kjw47, and that is why a "strong delusion" was given to the world. KB

i think it means that God leaves such people in spiritual darkness... just as he keeps satan in spiritual darkness, those who choose the lie over truth are left in spiritual darkness.

 

[CG Didymus]

i think it means that God leaves such people in spiritual darkness... just as he keeps satan in spiritual darkness, those who choose the lie over truth are left in spiritual darkness.

Assuming JW's are right, how are other Protestant Christians in the "dark"?

 

[Pegg]

Assuming JW's are right, how are other Protestant Christians in the "dark"?

their beliefs keep them in the dark.

believing in hell for example is a remnant of pagan religions... God does not promote pagan religious ideas... yet that is what they believe. They are in the dark with regard to the truth that there is no hell because they refuse to believe the scriptures. The scriptures present the 'light'.... but as Jesus said: JOhn 3:20 19 Now this is the basis for judgment, that the light has come into the world but men have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked. For he that practices vile things hates the light and does not come to the light, in order that his works may not be reproved. 21 But he that does what is true comes to the light, in order that his works may be made manifest as having been worked in harmony with God.”

 

[CG Didymus]

their beliefs keep them in the dark.

believing in hell for example is a remnant of pagan religions... God does not promote pagan religious ideas... yet that is what they believe. They are in the dark with regard to the truth that there is no hell because they refuse to believe the scriptures.

I imagine the trinity is a big one also. I know they turn it around and say it's the JW's that are in the dark. I was going to ask what's your best answer as to why you're right, but that might get too long. I have a stack of Watchtower's and Awake's that I haven't read. I could look through them and find out. I'm just too lazy, (and I was told not to read them by Evangelicals).

 

[Musty]

There are nearly ten thousand flavors of Christianity today. When we add to the mix the churches that did not survive to the present date, the number of churches are even higher. What criteria should a person use to determine the true church? I define the “true church” as a church that teaches an accurate teaching of Jesus Christ. If you know of such a church, please explain in detail why that church is the true church.

I don't think that there is objective 'Church' against which all others can be compared against. Pretty much all religions that exist come in a variety of forms which reflects their evolution through time as they influence and are influenced by the cultures they are exposed too.

In relation to secular Buddhism while I obviously choose to follow a path which is suitable to my particular view of the world I try not to take an antagonistic approach towards to the other Buddhist practices (Zen, Tibeten etc..) and simply accept that while they don't work for me they work for others.

Claims to a 'true' Church are divisive and a cause of conflict between people when we should instead be looking for common ground.

 

[Shermana]

I imagine the trinity is a big one also. I know they turn it around and say it's the JW's that are in the dark. I was going to ask what's your best answer as to why you're right, but that might get too long. I have a stack of Watchtower's and Awake's that I haven't read. I could look through them and find out. I'm just too lazy, (and I was told not to read them by Evangelicals).

There are many threads where the Trinity is savaged and its beliefs and uses of the Bible (and the faulty translations and grammatical distortions it relies on). The JWs are not the first to reject the Trinity, neither are they, as many Trinitarians seem to believe, the first to use the "word was a god" translation and things like that. The Trinity was seemingly rejected by early Jewish Christian groups and a few rogue "heretics" throughout history, and the Mormons before them and other splinter groups here and there like the Christadelhians. The Arians particularly had a very close idea of the right concept. The Trinity simply had an appeal to the majority, and the Arian belief persisted even until the 8th century among the Germanics, but it wasn't exactly extinguished by Theological debate.



I recommend the site Examining the Trinity, written by a JW (my friend "Teddy Trueblood"), but remarkably well referenced. It seems that even if the quotes from Trinitarian scholars themselves, traditionalists I've shown this site to reject it merely because it's written by a JW. You will find that when it comes to debating the Trinity, the Trinitarians more often than not engage in widespread fallacious reasoning, dismissal, subject changing, and rejection of views outside of their own conservative scholars, who don't even agree with each other on the specifics. If there's one thing I give the JWs credit for, they do an uncanny job in providing quality scholarship to light regarding the Trinity. The fact that you said you were told not to read them by Evangelicals is further testament to the fact that there is an undeniable attempt to try to "hide the facts", it seems they'd rather have you not see what they have to say at all than be able to read it so you can refute it, there's a reason for that.

Examining the Trinity

Seriously, I love this site so much, I really should give it a donation since I've quoted it and linked to it probably more than any other in my debates against Traditionalist Christians.

 

[Aamer]

I imagine the trinity is a big one also. I know they turn it around and say it's the JW's that are in the dark. I was going to ask what's your best answer as to why you're right, but that might get too long. I have a stack of Watchtower's and Awake's that I haven't read. I could look through them and find out. I'm just too lazy, (and I was told not to read them by Evangelicals).

Anyone who is telling you NOT to read scriptures or writings from another religion is teaching out of fear and closed mindedness. There are many Muslims who do this too. Reading the Old and New Testament is what brought me to Islam and helped me better understand Quran. And reading Hadith books of Sunnis and Shiites is what led me to becoming a Quranist. I think all Abrahamic religion members should read each others scriptures. It will only help you see the bigger picture. Peace.

 

[CG Didymus]

Examining the Trinity

Seriously, I love this site so much, I really should give it a donation since I've quoted it and linked to it probably more than any other in my debates against Traditionalist Christians.

I was hoping you'd chime in. Thanks for the link.

 

[CG Didymus]

Anyone who is telling you NOT to read scriptures or writings from another religion is teaching out of fear and closed mindedness. There are many Muslims who do this too. Reading the Old and New Testament is what brought me to Islam and helped me better understand Quran. And reading Hadith books of Sunnis and Shiites is what led me to becoming a Quranist. I think all Abrahamic religion members should read each others scriptures. It will only help you see the bigger picture. Peace.

It is easy to argue over the differences between religions. It is hard to live by the precepts of any one religion. Is it possible to co-exist and have a mutual respect between the different religions? Are those looking for the "true" church missing the bigger picture?

 

[Pegg]

I imagine the trinity is a big one also. I know they turn it around and say it's the JW's that are in the dark. I was going to ask what's your best answer as to why you're right, but that might get too long. I have a stack of Watchtower's and Awake's that I haven't read. I could look through them and find out. I'm just too lazy, (and I was told not to read them by Evangelicals).

lol, evangelists


The best answer i can give about the trinity is simply this....if they were right about the trinity, then the fierce debate which has been raging since the 3rd/4th centuries would never have ignited.

You just have to examine these things for yourself. I can tell you that its a false doctrine, but better for you to draw your own conclusion by studying the facts about it. Ask the various churches their opinions, look at the history, look at the bible and choose a side.

 

[McBell]

The best answer i can give about the trinity is simply this....if they were right about the trinity, then the fierce debate which has been raging since the 3rd/4th centuries would never have ignited.

Then you do not have an answer.

 

[Ken Brown]

i think it means that God leaves such people in spiritual darkness... just as he keeps satan in spiritual darkness, those who choose the lie over truth are left in spiritual darkness.

Hi Pegg, yes, those who have accepted the lie of having the righteous and innocent suffer and die in their place, are in spiritual darkness, under a strong delusion. KB

 

[Monotheist 101]

The Church of Abraham, the first true monotheist is the true church. I think people need to realise that associating yourself with one man made church or the other will not guide you, you have to open your heart to God and he will find you.

"By no means shall you attain to righteousness until you spend (benevolently) out of what you love; and whatever thing you spend, Allah surely knows it."
Quran 3.119
"Surely Allah knows what is in the hearts."
Quran 3.154

"And conceal your word or manifest it; surely He is Cognizant of what is in the hearts. Does He not know, Who created? And He is the Knower of the subtleties, the Aware."
Quran 67.13-14

 

[Monotheist 101]

Anyone who is telling you NOT to read scriptures or writings from another religion is teaching out of fear and closed mindedness. There are many Muslims who do this too. Reading the Old and New Testament is what brought me to Islam and helped me better understand Quran. And reading Hadith books of Sunnis and Shiites is what led me to becoming a Quranist. I think all Abrahamic religion members should read each others scriptures. It will only help you see the bigger picture. Peace.

Bro Christianity brought me to Islam as well, the prophecies in Deuteronomy and the Book of John

 

[Muffled]

The Christian churches I like best, Ethiopian Coptic and Quaker meetings (not churches), both very different but very fun.

I was never able to partake of Communion at a Friends meeting since none is held. The same was true for Christian Science. Evidently there are churches who think they can ignore the commands of Jesus.

 

[McBell]

I was never able to partake of Communion at a Friends meeting since none is held. The same was true for Christian Science. Evidently there are churches who think they can ignore the commands of Jesus.

Makes sense, seeing as there are so many individuals that, whilst claiming otherwise, completely ignore Jesus.