What church is the true church?

[Muffled]

i hate to say it, but that verse doesnt say the ones clothed in white robes are in heaven. It says they are "standing before the throne and before the Lamb" but it doesnt say they are in heaven.
Chapter 19 only says John heard a multitude in heaven singing praise to God, it doesnt say these are 'the people from tribes and nation and tongues'

I agree. There is no designation of the place the throne. The realistic expectation is that it is in The New Jerusalem which is in the clouds.

The 144,000 are also not in Heaven but there is a later passage Rev 12, that suggests they are raptured early as a first fruit.

 

[CG Didymus]

I was never able to partake of Communion at a Friends meeting since none is held. The same was true for Christian Science. Evidently there are churches who think they can ignore the commands of Jesus.

We all have to ignore something. The Quakers love their enemies. Seventh Day Adventists try and keep the Sabbath. Other Christians seem to ignore those. I don't pluck my eyes out when I look at a woman with lust. How about you? What do you choose to ignore?

 

[Muffled]

lol, evangelists


The best answer i can give about the trinity is simply this....if they were right about the trinity, then the fierce debate which has been raging since the 3rd/4th centuries would never have ignited.

You just have to examine these things for yourself. I can tell you that its a false doctrine, but better for you to draw your own conclusion by studying the facts about it. Ask the various churches their opinions, look at the history, look at the bible and choose a side.

I dont believe that concepts contrary to the Bible are less likely if the Bible is true. I believe people develop false concepts about the Bible because the devil plants that misinformation somehwere along the line. So I believe the trinity is a true biblical concept despite the nay sayers.

 

[Muffled]

We all have to ignore something. The Quakers love their enemies. Seventh Day Adventists try and keep the Sabbath. Other Christians seem to ignore those. I don't pluck my eyes out when I look at a woman with lust. How about you? What do you choose to ignore?

I ignore what I believe are useless discussions.

I had one get in my face because I spoke contrary to what he said. I wouldn't say they have a corner on this concept.

Jesus never commanded us to become Jews. When we celebrate communion we are not celebrating the Passover. When we have a day of rest it doesn't have to be the Jewish day of rest.

One time I heard Jimmy Swaggert preach on this. As a result I tossed out my girlie magazines and have not brought one into my house since. As far as I am concerned the metaphor works as well if one removes the object instead of the eye or sees with pristine eyes and a clean heart.

 

[Shermana]

Jesus never commanded us to become Jews

Well he did teach obedience to the commandments and that anyone who teaches to break the least of them will be called the least in the Kingdom.

Jesus never said you could NOT be a Jew. In fact, he said the doers of "Lawlessness" will be rejected.

 

[kjw47]

I dont believe that concepts contrary to the Bible are less likely if the Bible is true. I believe people develop false concepts about the Bible because the devil plants that misinformation somehwere along the line. So I believe the trinity is a true biblical concept despite the nay sayers.

If the trinity is a true bible teaching--then God must have a God. Jesus has a God and will be in subjection to him for all eternity after he hands back the kingdom-1 cor 15:24-28-- also rev 3:12--- Do you think there is equality when one is in subjection? God does not have a God.

 

[Aamer]

If the trinity is a true bible teaching--then God must have a God. Jesus has a God and will be in subjection to him for all eternity after he hands back the kingdom-1 cor 15:24-28-- also rev 3:12--- Do you think there is equality when one is in subjection? God does not have a God.

Not only would God have a God but he would also be his own father. So then Mary would be the mother of God and grandmother of God at the same time yet she also prays to God (her son/grandson) who sent her the angel Gabriel to let her know that she would be giving birth to her creator who also happens to be her future son and grandson. Yeah that makes complete sense. How come there isn't this confusion for the other sons of God mentioned in the Bible? Perhaps the son of God thing wasn't meant to be taken literally??

 

[McBell]

Not only would God have a God but he would also be his own father. So then Mary would be the mother of God and grandmother of God at the same time yet she also prays to God (her son/grandson) who sent her the angel Gabriel to let her know that she would be giving birth to her creator who also happens to be her future son and grandson. Yeah that makes complete sense. How come there isn't this confusion for the other sons of God mentioned in the Bible? Perhaps the son of God thing wasn't meant to be taken literally??

um...
Who is the grandson god of Mary?

 

[Aamer]

um...
Who is the grandson god of Mary?

Well according to the trinity, Jesus is both God and the son of God and they are one in the same right?

Look, this 3 in 1 is not a biblical concept. It actually resembles a pagan Roman concept. Now, when a scribe asked Jesus what is the FIRST COMMANDMENT, what did Jesus say?

Mark:12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Now let's analyze this situation. This is a SCRIBE! A scribe is a learned man. Scribes were rare and the highly educated ones in those days. So why is a scribe asking Jesus a question that any 8 year old Jewish boy could have answered a thousand years earlier? Because he wanted to make sure Jesus was not claiming divinity and that he was still teaching the most important Jewish teaching of all. That God is ONE!

And what did Jesus say?
That God is indeed ONE.
Jesus said the very first commandment of all is that God is one. But if you ask most modern day Christians what THEIR first commandment is. They will tell you God is THREE!

 

[McBell]

Well according to the trinity, Jesus is both God and the son of God and they are one in the same right?

Look, this 3 in 1 is not a biblical concept. It actually resembles a pagan Roman concept. Now, when a scribe asked Jesus what is the FIRST COMMANDMENT, what did Jesus say?

Mark:12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Now let's analyze this situation. This is a SCRIBE! A scribe is a learned man. Scribes were rare and the highly educated ones in those days. So why is a scribe asking Jesus a question that any 8 year old Jewish boy could have answered a thousand years earlier? Because he wanted to make sure Jesus was not claiming divinity and that he was still teaching the most important Jewish teaching of all. That God is ONE!

And what did Jesus say?
That God is indeed ONE.
Jesus said the very first commandment of all is that God is one. But if you ask most modern day Christians what THEIR first commandment is. They will tell you God is THREE!

you did not answer the question.
Jesus is gods son and mary's son and also god.
Where does the grandchild come into it?

 

[Aamer]

you did not answer the question.
Jesus is gods son and mary's son and also god.
Where does the grandchild come into it?

That was sarcasm. How can a father and son be the same identity? You're missing the point. The trinity makes no sense and the Bible doesn't support such a concept. It actually says the opposite.

 

[McBell]

That was sarcasm. How can a father and son be the same identity? You're missing the point. The trinity makes no sense and the Bible doesn't support such a concept. It actually says the opposite.

I am not arguing for or against the Trinity idea.

Most people here know exactly what I think of it.

You made a claim about a grandson and I have no idea where it came from.

NOTHING in scripture, the Bible OR the Koran, supports your grandson claim, so I am wondering where it came from.

 

[CG Didymus]

I ignore what I believe are useless discussions.

I had one get in my face because I spoke contrary to what he said. I wouldn't say they have a corner on this concept.

Jesus never commanded us to become Jews. When we celebrate communion we are not celebrating the Passover. When we have a day of rest it doesn't have to be the Jewish day of rest.

One time I heard Jimmy Swaggert preach on this. As a result I tossed out my girlie magazines and have not brought one into my house since. As far as I am concerned the metaphor works as well if one removes the object instead of the eye or sees with pristine eyes and a clean heart.

What does the true church believe? To believe the Sabbath is not still a requirement and meant to be on Saturday, a person has to ignore some verses. The same with the trinity, a person has to ignore or re-interpret verses to come up with either side of the argument. The argument for God being one and only one seems stronger and makes more sense, (especially because it eliminates God having to be his own grand-child).

 

[kjw47]

Not only would God have a God but he would also be his own father. So then Mary would be the mother of God and grandmother of God at the same time yet she also prays to God (her son/grandson) who sent her the angel Gabriel to let her know that she would be giving birth to her creator who also happens to be her future son and grandson. Yeah that makes complete sense. How come there isn't this confusion for the other sons of God mentioned in the Bible? Perhaps the son of God thing wasn't meant to be taken literally??

Gods word foretold the great apostasy would rise( trinity religions-33,000 disunified mass of confusion-2 cor 11:12-15) (This is the true religion-1 cor 1:10)
Its a 100% undeniable fact of reality that every israelite that served the true God, served a single being God named YHWH(Jehovah) the same God Jesus serves.
The world hates truth so much that back in Jesus day--they murdered Jesus,apostles,christians--it hasnt changed. The world needs to take 1 step back and look at reality.

 

[bjrd49]

I believe the true assembly will be known after Rev.19:20-Rev.20:15 takes place. The Messiah will have returned. We will all have His laws written in our hearts and minds. We will all speak one pure language. The righteous dead will have been resurrected, the millinium will have taken place and all the 'bad guys' will have been thrown into the lake of fire. The earth will have been cleansed.

 

[Muffled]

If the trinity is a true bible teaching--then God must have a God. Jesus has a God and will be in subjection to him for all eternity after he hands back the kingdom-1 cor 15:24-28-- also rev 3:12--- Do you think there is equality when one is in subjection? God does not have a God.

I believe that the God of God is God. Would you be willing to say that God does not see Himself as God?

 

[Muffled]

What does the true church believe? To believe the Sabbath is not still a requirement and meant to be on Saturday, a person has to ignore some verses. The same with the trinity, a person has to ignore or re-interpret verses to come up with either side of the argument. The argument for God being one and only one seems stronger and makes more sense, (especially because it eliminates God having to be his own grand-child).

I believe the true church believes what Jesus wishes it to believe.

I believe the verses don't have to be ignored but simply understood the way Jesus wishes them to be understood.

I don't believe there are any verses that need to be ignored for the Trinity to be a true concept.

I believe this is true within the Trinity.

I beleive God can be brother, sister, uncle, aunt, great grandchild and whatever else He wishes to be and that it is not a problem.

 

[Muffled]

That was sarcasm. How can a father and son be the same identity? You're missing the point. The trinity makes no sense and the Bible doesn't support such a concept. It actually says the opposite.

I believe they have the same identity when they are the same spirit.

I believe the Trinity makes perfect sense and the Bible contains the concept and so far I have seen no reasonable evidence to the contrary.

I believe there is no such opposite rendition.

 

[Aamer]

I believe they have the same identity when they are the same spirit.

I believe the Trinity makes perfect sense and the Bible contains the concept and so far I have seen no reasonable evidence to the contrary.

I believe there is no such opposite rendition.

That's what you WANT to believe because the club you have membership to promotes this concept. It's human nature to follow the group without questioning. Question is, is it the truth? If so, what evidence do you have from your scripture?

 

[CG Didymus]

I believe the true church believes what Jesus wishes it to believe.

What does Jesus wish his true church would believe? That's the problem. We all have different views on what that is because some verses point one direction while others point somewhere else.