What contributes more - science or religion???

[the gateway]

Both have contributed to the development of society as a whole, however, overall, I would say science. Many, not all, religious beliefs tend to hold society back.

Religious beliefs hold society back from what....Killing people!

 

[waitasec]

Religious beliefs hold society back from what....Killing people!

open a history book.

 

[ninerbuff]

Religious beliefs hold society back from what....Killing people!

Yeah the Crusades were peaceful.

 

[Vendetta]

oh please, stop blaming others for your own short comings
:bonk:

Waitasec if this was a real debate I would murder you in proof. Right now I just had much studying to do and don't have time trying to make mountains out of mole hills with you. However I am willing to reconsider my continuing the discussion if you can just pay attention to the following question:

Name 3 non-monohestic, non-cult religions that holds back society and education? Cults don't count as society does not recognize cults. Don't use christian sects because their roots are in monotheism. I am asking 3 non-monotheistic, non-cult religions.

In fact if anyone else want to take a stab at this be my guess and help waitasec out.


By the way again areligious and athiest here are still continuing to associate bad religion with he historical influences of Judeo-Christian and Muslim pasts. If you know grammar or english saying religion is a general statement. If you are making factual claims about religion stop using specific examples of specific religions. Name them all. The fact that many of you keep bringing up cults and christian and muslim history let's.me know you don't know jack about what you are talking about.

 

[jarofthoughts]

JOT, what you are saying is that the guy's religion and beliefs were completely departed from him acquiring and performing a skill and everything else that lead to him making your porch. That is a quite a stretch of itself. Now you're focusing on the person's skill and not the whole person who uses the skill in his lifestyle, which is influenced in one degree to the next by his religion and beliefs.

A skill or non-religious drone did not walk up and make your porch-a person did- and whatever makes up that person did. He did not become atheist anytime during you contacting him or him performing the skill. And neither did the people who made the tools he is using or who built the store he went to buy the tools in.

Attitudes and emotions affect how we perform a skill. Do you not think religion and beliefs play a factor in his disposition and demeaner in making your porch? Come on. I'm starting to not take you serious at all about what you're insinuating.

All of this is about how you have chosen to interpret your reality, value and credit things about a person. Nothing more.

"...whatever makes up that person did."

This is the main point I am getting at, but that you seem to be missing.
Of course everything a person is and has experienced will make up that person, whether he is religious or not, whether he wears pink t-shirts or not, whether he likes steak or not, and so on and so forth.

But as for the carpenter, why on Earth would I credit his religion, provided he has one, any more than I would credit his taste in t-shirts for the work he did on my porch?

Do you see my point now? :sarcastic

 

[jarofthoughts]

Waitasec if this was a real debate I would murder you in proof. Right now I just had much studying to do and don't have time trying to make mountains out of mole hills with you. However I am willing to reconsider my continuing the discussion if you can just pay attention to the following question:

Name 3 non-monohestic, non-cult religions that holds back society and education? Cults don't count as society does not recognize cults. Don't use christian sects because their roots are in monotheism. I am asking 3 non-monotheistic, non-cult religions.

In fact if anyone else want to take a stab at this be my guess and help waitasec out.

Fair enough. I'll take a stab at it and see where it leads us.

Using the Oxford Online Dictionary definition of religion: "the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power , especially a personal God or gods", I have this to say about the way religion holds society back.

1. They all involve Blind Faith, that is, belief in a view of reality that has no evidential backing. This is in and of itself both dangerous and holds society back because laying weight to opinions that are 'just because' or 'because [insert deity/deities] said so' without any evidential backing that such a deity/deities even exist opens a potentially very poisonous can of worms.

2. It is essentially the wish to be a serf. One postulates that there is some higher being without any evidence that this is so and then proclaims one's servitude to said deity. This removes personal responsibility and induces one to acts one would not otherwise have undertaken, which can have terrifying results.

3. Most, if not all, religions are dogmatic in their foundation, meaning that they are for all intents and purposes are against change. If they were in favour of change then they would die out as the question of validity is sure to pop up pretty soon, and seeing as there is no evidence to support the notion, they would fall.

4. False delusions of grandeur. I have yet to see a religion that does not portray humans, and often a particular group of humans as being special. The notion that the universe was created for them is also very common. This has dangers of its own, best described in Douglas Adams' "Puddle Analogy".

[youtube]hDC_NcihiV8[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDC_NcihiV8.

 

[waitasec]

Waitasec if this was a real debate I would murder you in proof. Right now I just had much studying to do and don't have time trying to make mountains out of mole hills with you. However I am willing to reconsider my continuing the discussion if you can just pay attention to the following question:

Name 3 non-monohestic, non-cult religions that holds back society and education? Cults don't count as society does not recognize cults. Don't use christian sects because their roots are in monotheism. I am asking 3 non-monotheistic, non-cult religions.

In fact if anyone else want to take a stab at this be my guess and help waitasec out.


By the way again areligious and athiest here are still continuing to associate bad religion with he historical influences of Judeo-Christian and Muslim pasts. If you know grammar or english saying religion is a general statement. If you are making factual claims about religion stop using specific examples of specific religions. Name them all. The fact that many of you keep bringing up cults and christian and muslim history let's.me know you don't know jack about what you are talking about.

why haven't you provided any non monotheistic religions to the table and presented what they have contributed to society? i might have missed it, if i have i apologize. as far as i can tell, i have presented an argument and i gave you specific examples to back up my claim and it seem as though you are asking me to look for examples to contradict my claim. isn't that up to you?

would it be fair to ask,
if you combine all of the non monotheistic religions of the world, would they come close to being able to qualify as being religions that contribute to society as a whole? if so, how and what are they?
then i will be happy to continue this conversation on this thread because it is about the influence religion contributes and then we can compare that to what science has done.


the point i'm making is that these 3 major religions are the most influential, and have also been the most detrimental, hands down. we can get into semantics of religion or philosophy but that wouldn't be the point of this thread. and why would we want to derail the original question?

for what it's worth, i would love to have a conversation about other religions/philosophy and it's positive influence on another thread, by all means.

 

[Vendetta]

Jarofthoughts officially has my respect and although he didn't name three.non-monotheistic religions he provided some answers instead of answering my question with a question.....jar I am currently about to give a power point presentation so I will give you my response shortly.....

 

[outhouse]

Name 3 non-monohestic, non-cult religions that holds back society and education?

christians, mormons, judaism

 

[Breathe]

christians, mormons, judaism

Those are monotheistic.

 

[outhouse]

Those are monotheistic.

LOL wasnt paying attention to the [non] part,,, thank you for the correction. my brain viewed monotheistic and ran

why would someone ask a question that only includes minor offshoots that doesnt even represent religion as a whole??????

 

[Vendetta]

why haven't you provided any non monotheistic religions to the table and presented what they have contributed to society? i might have missed it, if i have i apologize. as far as i can tell, i have presented an argument and i gave you specific examples to back up my claim and it seem as though you are asking me to look for examples to contradict my claim. isn't that up to you?

would it be fair to ask,
if you combine all of the non monotheistic religions of the world, would they come close to being able to qualify as being religions that contribute to society as a whole? if so, how and what are they?
then i will be happy to continue this conversation on this thread because it is about the influence religion contributes and then we can compare that to what science has done.


the point i'm making is that these 3 major religions are the most influential, and have also been the most detrimental, hands down. we can get into semantics of religion or philosophy but that wouldn't be the point of this thread. and why would we want to derail the original question?

for what it's worth, i would love to have a conversation about other religions/philosophy and it's positive influence on another thread, by all means.

Waitasec.......

I am going to take an athiest position in saying you have made a factual claim of what religion IS NOT so the burden is on you to show proof. I clearly asked you several times to answer my question. The list you provided are cults that took the lives of people in suicidal pact, coersion, and other socially disturbing acts. I don't have time to get into details but like I said the burden on you is to prove the claim.

 

[waitasec]

Those are monotheistic.

can you provide any contributions of non monotheistic religions
and how they have influenced society?

 

[outhouse]

why cant he use the proper term if he wants to debate

let's all say it together "Polytheism"

 

[waitasec]

Waitasec.......

I am going to take an athiest position in saying you have made a factual claim of what religion IS NOT so the burden is on you to show proof. I clearly asked you several times to answer my question. The list you provided are cults that took the lives of people in suicidal pact, coersion, and other socially disturbing acts. I don't have time to get into details but like I said the burden on you is to prove the claim.

so you cannot tell me what non monotheistic religions out there have contributed more than science...

 

[Breathe]

LOL wasnt paying attention to the [non] part,,, thank you for the correction. my brain viewed monotheistic and ran

Lol, happens to us all.

why would someone ask a question that only includes minor offshoots that doesnt even represent religion as a whole??????

It's to show that not all religions "retard science". Some of the religions are not quite minor, either.

For example, Folk Taoism has many deities, as does Shinto. I wouldn't call them minor religions, considering the numbers of Folk Taoists and Shinto followers number in the millions.

Besides, just because they lost out in the numbers game doesn't mean anything. Wouldn't they still "retard science" as a small group if they would a large one?

 

[waitasec]

why would someone ask a question that only includes minor offshoots that doesnt even represent religion as a whole??????

he's defending the principle that religion is supposed to be a positive influence i'm guessing.

 

[waitasec]

Lol, happens to us all.


It's to show that not all religions "retard science". Some of the religions are not quite minor, either.

For example, Folk Taoism has many deities, as does Shinto. I wouldn't call them minor religions, considering the numbers of Folk Taoists and Shinto followers number in the millions.

Besides, just because they lost out in the numbers game doesn't mean anything. Wouldn't they still "retard science" as a small group if they would a large one?

i'm not sure what you mean by retard science.

 

[Breathe]

can you provide any contributions of non monotheistic religions
and how they have influenced society?

Iliad?
Tao Te Ching?
Nihon Shoki & Kojiki?
Rig Veda?
Epic of Gilgamesh?



Your question is vague. It doesn't even make any sense unless you elaborate on what you mean.

 

[Breathe]

i'm not sure what you mean by retard science.

Not my words. Hence the quotes.