What do atheists have to say about incidents like these?

[Tazarah]

Your original post, you quoted from Daily Mail Online, not from the original source, Indianapolis Star.

It is still dubious, because other than two media, no other media reported this incident.

If the articles were true about demon possession and all, don’t you think there would be more media wanting to question the family, police and hospital?

Do you ever question that this mother wasn’t faking it or that she wasn’t delusional?

Why this story? And why do you want to focus on atheists?

Atheists are the only ones here to treat it with skepticism. Theists too have treated it with skepticism. So why focus on atheists?

I find your method of accepting paranormal stories wholeheartedly to be awfully naïve.

What does it matter what source I posted when that source states what the original source was? Atheist, bhuddist, or whatever. I also posted a link showing all of the other sources that reported on this.

https://www.google.com/search?q=aud...indy&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

Who cares what the mother said? What I have shown you are police reports, medical reports, intake reports, etc.

So why do you keep bringing up the mother when I have repeatedly shown and stated that she is not the only person who witnessed these things going on?

Good grief.

 

[gnostic]

Want to know why it took me that long? Because I was talking to somebody else about something else and you jumped in the conversation taking sides and demanding that your questions be answered the way that you wanted them to be answered. You came causing all of that confusion and then accuse me of using a straw man? Lol, you are obviously still confused. I obviously had no interest in talking to you.

Here is a little advice to you — don’t quote me while I’m talking to somebody else, take their side, and become upset when I assume that you have the same views as them.

Now you are making it as if it all my fault.

If you go back to post 683, from that other thread, I DIDN’T QUOTE YOU OR ANYONE ELSE’S REPLIES.

There were no quotes at all, Hadar Judah.

You responded to my post, not me to you. And you responded by quoting me. I did not sk you to quote me, and if you didn’t have any answer for me, you could have on arguing with someone else, but you didn’t.

First, you use my quotes and responded with strawman, and now telling me is my fault for interfering with your arguments with Subduction Zone?

In my original post (post 683 in “Are there any Flat Earth believers here?”), I didn’t quote you at all. In fact, I didn’t quote anyone. You were The Who responded to my post (post 683), and you responded not this once, a number of times since then, but never addressing my points, until 176 posts later. And yet you are saying the faults are mine?

What a bloody hypocrite you are.

 

[gnostic]

What does it matter what source I posted when that source states what the original source was? Atheist, bhuddist, or whatever. I also posted a link showing all of the other sources that reported on this.

https://www.google.com/search?q=aud...indy&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

Who cares what the mother said? What I have shown you are police reports, medical reports, intake reports, etc.

So why do you keep bringing up the mother when I have repeatedly shown and stated that she is not the only person who witnessed these things going on?

Good grief.

Wow, you are really a something. And it isn’t something good.

Without the mother, there wouldn’t be any story in the first place. And a lot of reports are based on what the mother say.

All you are doing is moving the goalpost.

When people address your point, you would move the goalpost. When they responded to that, you would either move it elsewhere, or you’ll move the goalpost back.

So strawman and moving goalposts are your speciality of dishonest tactics. Good to know.

I don’t think I can trust whatever you say from now on.

 

[Milton Platt]

Especially considering the fact that most cases like these usually have multiple credible eyewitnesses.

“Police and medical staff document America's real-life possession: Official reports claim boy, nine, walked backwards up hospital wall and police captain was too scared to enter family's 'haunted' house”

READ FULL ARTICLE AT:

Children possessed by 200 demons 'levitated' and walked backwards over walls in front of hospital staff | Daily Mail Online

— A nine-year-old boy walked backwards up a wall and ceiling as startled medical staff looked on after his mother claimed he and his two siblings had been possessed by demons, according to official reports.

The unlikely-sounding event was detailed in official documents after a child services case worker and a nurse both said they saw the boy 'glide' backwards on the floor, wall and ceiling.

Both were shocked to see the boy apparently float after their mother had been subject to months of scepticism when she claimed her home in Gary, Indiana, was haunted and all three of her children were possessed by demons. Listen to exclusive audio of the demon here

Latoya Ammons said her 12-year-old daughter also levitated in the home, and all three of her children showed signs of being possessed including 'evil' smiles and unnaturally deep voices, according to the Indianapolis Star.

Miss Ammons' home was officially exorcised by a catholic priest who said the ceremonies were officially authorized by the Diocese of Gary.

Police also observed strange goings on at the house and a captain of the city's force has said he 'is a true believer' that the house is haunted.

After a string of apparent paranormal events at the house hardened police officers - including the local captain - even declared themselves too frightened to stay there after nightfall and numerous city officials refused to go to the property.

Mother-of-three Ms Ammons, 32, said she was only rid of the spirits that haunted her family's home in Gary after she moved away and underwent multiple exorcisms and police dug under the house to check for graves.

The Indianapolis Star obtained hundreds of pages of official documents and carried out more than a dozen interviews with police, the Department of Child Services, psychologists, relatives and a priest to uncover the bizarre details - which seem like something straight out of a horror movie...

The Daily Mail is a UK rag that has a track record of BS articles. One would do good to verify the stories. Or even better don't waste time on tabloids.

 

[Tazarah]

Now you are making it as if it all my fault.

If you go back to post 683, from that other thread, I DIDN’T QUOTE YOU OR ANYONE ELSE’S REPLIES.

There were no quotes at all, Hadar Judah.

You responded to my post, not me to you. And you responded by quoting me. I did not sk you to quote me, and if you didn’t have any answer for me, you could have on arguing with someone else, but you didn’t.

First, you use my quotes and responded with strawman, and now telling me is my fault for interfering with your arguments with Subduction Zone?

My original post didn’t quote you at all. You responded to my post, and you responded not this once, but a number of times, never addressing my points, until 176 posts later. And yet you are saying the faults are mine?

What a bloody hypocrite you are.

I responded to your post? You just admitted that you addressed me first and then you were crying about how I didn’t reply until 176 posts later. Which is it?

 

[Tazarah]

Wow, you are really a something. And it isn’t something good.

Without the mother, there wouldn’t be any story in the first place. And a lot of reports are based on what the mother say.

All you are doing is moving the goalpost.

When people address your point, you would move the goalpost. When they responded to that, you would either move it elsewhere, or you’ll move the goalpost back.

So strawman and moving goalposts are your speciality of dishonest tactics. Good to know.

I don’t think I can trust whatever you say from now on.

“A lot of reports are based on what the mother says”

The police officers involved made their own reports based on their firsthand encounters with what went on.

The medical staff recorded their own statements as well.

The mother has nothing to do with what either of the above mentioned had to say about anything.

So I ask you again — why do you keep bringing up the mother? Yeah, I’m the one doing the straw man though.

The thing about you is you just like to argue, and you don’t care if you’re even making sense. You just want to make it seem like you have something relevant to say when in reality it’s the exact opposite.

First you drag in drama from another thread into this one, and now you’re accusing me of doing what only you are doing.

Lmao

 

[Tazarah]

The Daily Mail is a UK rag that has a track record of BS articles. One would do good to verify the stories. Or even better don't waste time on tabloids.

Verify the story... as in provide official documents from authorities, like I have done (DCS report, 2 police reports, intake report)? Also, the story was covered by multiple news outlets. I guess you conveniently missed that part too.

I have no problem with people offering opposing views and opinions, but when you just spew nonsense and ignore facts then that just goes to show how irrational a lot of you are, and how your own personal beliefs prevent you from dealing with facts in a logical manner.

The exorcisms of Latoya Ammons [indy star]

Strange events lead Ind. family to resort to exorcism [usa today]

Latoya Ammons, Indiana Mother, Claims Demon Possession, Authorities Corroborate | HuffPost [huffington post]

Haunting in Indiana leads to family’s exorcism, child’s levitation: Reports - NY Daily News [new york daily news]

Latoya Ammons [fox news]

The Devil & Latoya Ammons [the american conservative]

Latoya Ammons Exorcisms - Indianapolis Star incredible story of demons [esquire]

Priest performs exorcism on child caught up in portal to Hell [abc]

 

[David T]

Apparently you live with the fantasy you understand the unconscious. If you did you wouldnt hace posted this nonsense.




I did get this snap shot out hiking the other day.
Purple cow how about that.

 

[Tazarah]

Apparently you live with the fallacy you understand nature and the bible!!!! Odd atheists say exactly the same thing you only disagree on the details is all nothing more.i am not remotely an atheist or even agnosric and i most certainly am not a BELIEVER.

BOO.


I did get this snap shot out hiking the other day.
Purple cow how about that.
View attachment 25035

What does any of what you said have to do with anything in the OP?

Like I said... a lot of you allow your personal beliefs to prevent you from thinking rationally and dealing with details in a logical manner.

 

[Salvador]

Somebody apparently walking backwards up a wall could just be a matrix glitch.....

 

[Tazarah]

Somebody apparently walking backwards up a wall could just be a matrix glitch.....

Yes... I never considered that

 

[David T]

oh and what you understand the unconscious? Hahahahahahahaha.... Please.
View attachment 25035

What does any of what you said have to do with anything in the OP?

Like I said... a lot of you allow your personal beliefs to prevent you from thinking rationally and dealing with details in a logical manner.

Oh thats right i saw the documentary the exorcist in 1974 This is old news. My mistake.

 

[Tazarah]

Oh thats right i saw the documentary the exorcist in 1974 This is old news. My mistake.
View attachment 25036

I still don’t understand the point that you’re trying to make... if you’re attempting to crack a joke and be funny, then please go back to clown school.

 

[Stevicus]

You began your first paragraph with a lie so that’s where I stopped reading.

So, you think that my wondering what would constitute a credible eyewitness is a lie?

 

[Tazarah]

So, you think that my wondering what would constitute a credible eyewitness is a lie?

No... when you said this:

“The police reports you linked to later on in this thread only detail what others told them, such as these witnesses who claimed to see this.”

Both the intake report and the police reports state that medical staff and police witnessed things with their own eyes

 

[Truly Enlightened]

well my weighting system though includes judgment on the quality of the reports. Using my judgment I believe in the existence of paranormal phenomena and I do not believe Elvis is having lunch with Michael.

I never said you did. I was highlighting the flaw in your weighing system. Since you are using your judgement to make a sensible decision, what facts/evidence are you using to justify that decision? Other than the number and the quality of the reports? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Maybe you can point to just one of the thousand and one quality reports, that you think would pass even the most cursory of scientific scrutiny? I'm afraid your belief in the paranormal is no different than the belief that Elvis is having lunch with Michael. You can't believe that one exists, and dismiss the possibility that the other exists. That would be logically inconsistent.

 

[Stevicus]

No... when you said this:

“The police reports you linked to later on in this thread only detail what others told them, such as these witnesses who claimed to see this.”

Both the intake report and the police reports state that medical staff and police witnessed things with their own eyes

That's what I said. Witnesses claimed to see something with their own eyes, and someone wrote their statements into the reports which you linked. So, the reports in question only say "somebody said they saw something," but we have nothing more than their say so. We have to take their word for it that it happened, so it's a fair question to wonder about whether they're actually credible.

 

[Tazarah]

That's what I said. Witnesses claimed to see something with their own eyes, and someone wrote their statements into the reports which you linked. So, the reports in question only say "somebody said they saw something," but we have nothing more than their say so. We have to take their word for it that it happened, so it's a fair question to wonder about whether they're actually credible.

You implied that the police reports only included information that people told the police, when the fact of the matter is that the police who were investigating wrote down their own firsthand experiences while conducting the investigation. On top of that, the medical staff at the hospital (intake report pg. 2) also reported witnessing things that corroborate what was being said.

 

[Stevicus]

You implied that the police reports only included information that people told the police, when the fact of the matter is that the police who were investigating wrote down their own firsthand experiences while conducting the investigation. On top of that, the medical staff at the hospital (intake report pg. 2) also reported witnessing things that corroborate what was being said.

As I see it, it comes down to the same thing - whether the witnesses were police, medical staff, or whoever.

But we're still missing any kind of hard evidence to corroborate any of these witness statements. I would also ask what happened further. Who in the chain of command (either in the police or hospital administration) read these reports and made the decision as to whether to investigate further? If they didn't investigate further, then they must have had a reason for making that decision.

The article in the OP mentioned that they called churches and clairvoyants, but no mention of calling any scientists, forensic investigators, or anyone else in an official capacity who would be qualified to investigate these strange incidents. The article also mentioned the numerous people who were afraid to go to this haunted house, but maybe they asked the wrong people. Lots of people love haunted houses, and they're quite a popular attraction around Halloween. Who are these people who are afraid of haunted houses and ghosts?

I don't believe in ghosts, and I question the existence of any god or gods. But if I did believe in an all-powerful being who was far more powerful than any piddly demons or ghosts, then I probably still wouldn't have any fear of ghosts. The title of your thread is "what do atheists have to say about incidents like these," but I would say that the faith of these "believers" must be pretty weak, if they're running around in fear of ghosts. Why wouldn't they believe that God is more powerful than a ghost?

 

[George-ananda]

I never said you did. I was highlighting the flaw in your weighing system. Since you are using your judgement to make a sensible decision, what facts/evidence are you using to justify that decision? Other than the number and the quality of the reports? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Maybe you can point to just one of the thousand and one quality reports, that you think would pass even the most cursory of scientific scrutiny? I'm afraid your belief in the paranormal is no different than the belief that Elvis is having lunch with Michael. You can't believe that one exists, and dismiss the possibility that the other exists. That would be logically inconsistent.

My weighing system includes my subjective appreciation of human reporting skills and honesty based on all that is known. If you know a better way to judge non-reproducible anecdotal events I'll listen.

Traditional science may not work well with anecdotal phenomena but I will continue to use my best judgment.