ecco
Veteran Member
That's a long article full of "she saids". Since you are familiar with the story you can take the time to excerpt those parts which indicate actual evidence.
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What do atheists have to say about incidents like these?
ecco
Veteran Member
Which of those links has actual evidence: Copies of police reports where officers witnessed the child walking up walls. Documents from hospital staff who witnessed the child walking up walls.
gnostic
The Lost One
There is no such thing as materialist science.
If you want to stick label to science, then use the right ones, like natural science, physical science, experimental science (which is the same as empirical sciecne).
The use of terms “materialism” or “materialist” have more philosophy than science.
And it is physical evidence, not physical proof. The only people who use the term proof are mathematicians and theoretical physicists. And proof denote or mean logical statements, like equations or formulas.
And while there are often mathematical equations or formulas (hence proofs) in experimental science, experimental relied more on evidences to test, refute or verify any statement within hypothesis or scientific theory, and less on proofs or less on solutions of equations.
When scientists or mathematicians attempt to prove or disprove a hypothesis or theory, they are talking about solving the equations to get the answers, not finding evidences or performing experiments.
Evidences are what can be actually detected or observed, what can be measured or quantified, and what can be tested, refuted or verified...or all or combination of the above.
Evidences are real world solutions, where as proofs are logical solutions, in the forms of equations, formulas or mathematical models.
Real science, as in natural science, physical science or empirical science preferred to rely or use evidences, not proofs.
And for your information, theoretical science, theoretical physics or theoretical fields (eg superstring theory or multiverse model) are not real science; they are proposed models, which have potential of becoming real science. They are not real science, because they don’t meet the requirements of Scientific Method or of being falsifiable. (For example, General Relativity used to be theoretical, until scientists were able to test or perform experiments that verified GR to be true.)
To science and mathematics, evidence and proof are not the same things. For those who are less educated in science (eg legal or judicial systems), they are synonymous, so proof and evidence are often used interchangeably.
If you are going to discuss or debate on the issues of science or natural phenomena, then at least have the decency to understand the differences between evidence and proof, between physical/experimental science and theoretical science.
gnostic
The Lost One
You were the one who posted the link and quoted at the OP on this incident from the Daily Mail Online, not us.
You were the one proclaimed everything in the article to be true, including the girl’s demon possessions/exorcism, walking on wall, levitation.
The intake report link that you provided later, consist mostly of what mother say.
Well, I have heard and experienced more than my tipping point share of stories considered for quantity, quality and consistency to the point that I do not think they are all phony. So my answer to your questions would be; those leading questions are not rightly put.
I believe many types of so-called paranormal phenomena are real. And the best model of reality can be found in certain eastern and western esoteric traditions. Theosophical and Vedic schools of thought have knowledge of things beyond current mainstream science is my position.
Fine, if it matters, replace 'materialist science' with 'physical science' in my statement.
Physical science concerns itself with that which can be detected by the physical senses and instruments. If a spirit, for example, resides in another dimension not directly detectable by the physical, then it is currently outside the range of current physical science to study. And my point was that I am personally concerned with more than what physical science can study and hold that a study of paranormal phenomena and the insights of those clairvoyants claiming insight into things beyond the physical are in my field of consideration also.
Tazarah
Well-Known Member
I posted all of the links. Can you read? Or are you just trying to make yourself look cool.
Tazarah
Well-Known Member
I did not address you first. Can you share the quote where I “responded to you first”? Now you’re changing your story.
Tazarah
Well-Known Member
What about the other 7-8 news outlets that I posted?... nothing to say about those, right.
Tazarah
Well-Known Member
Well you provided the link in your OP. If you disagree with your links, I don't know why you provide them.
And you're lying about them being recorded, no video is forthcoming. And I'm guessing you don't read medical reports like this even as often as I do.
Here's what you wrote in the OP
Ok, then who are the medical staff who've come forward with this? You also became awfully quiet when asked about what police reports say that kids were levitating.
Don't lie about me lying. The very same page of the report said that the kids were performing and being encouraged to do so by the mother's behavior. But you're lying that such thing wasn't there, right?
Where does the report say that “the kids were performing and encouraged to do so by the mother’s behavior.”?
Where does anything say that? You lie everytime you post and then you lie about lying. Why do you make such a big deal out of it?
You act like people don’t have two eyes of their own and can’t read the report for themselves.
First you said that the statements provided by the medical staff were not accurate because “they should have worded their statements differently”, or because they “were exaggerating”, when the staff clearly reported what they said, and now you yourself are changing the meaning of what the statements in the reports mean.
Lmao.
Tazarah
Well-Known Member
Oh, my apologies.
I believe it.
That’s the point that I’m trying to make in this thread. Regardless of how much documented evidence there is and regardless of who provides it, there will always be those people who will blindly deny it and try to make it seem like the people who are talking about it are crazy. Some people have been so conditioned by society to not believe that the supernatural is real, and it’s sad. The sad part is not their disbelief, but the fact that they criticize and try to belittle people who talk about it even when there is so much credible evidence and witnesses to prove it.
Curious George
Veteran Member
To be fair, the police report is an official document that notes hospital staff witnessing some events.
However, you might find this take more palatable:
The ‘200 Demons’ House: A Skeptical Demonologist’s Report - CSI
Tazarah
Well-Known Member
Why would christians be insulted at the fact that I did not ask for their opinion?
Nonsense is in the eye of the beholder. Nobody can force you to believe police reports or reports from hospital staff. Lol
Tazarah
Well-Known Member
Because I don’t understand why you even bothered to say any of what you said, because everything that you were mentioning is present as evidence in the police reports, intake report, etc.
gnostic
The Lost One
This article and link is no better than Hadar Judah’s original article at the OP, which was already full of pseudoscience garbage.
Wow, fascinating!
Here’s a link you might like
(IMO, the apparitions seen, are not the spirits of those who died....rather, they are the same beings who scared Ms. Ammons and her family.):
https://www.history.com/topics/halloween/ghosts-in-the-white-house
Why do I say these are not the spirits of dead people? A lot of reasons. But think about this: if they were the dead, why would they have clothes? Do wardrobes ‘turn into spirit’, too, then?
Here’s another:
Lincoln's ghost - Wikipedia
THIS IS A TRIP!
I noticed when the authorities went to the home (which was clean -- nice to know), they observed "religious shrines"; this could be one of the problems.
Even if Ms. Ammons installed these shrines after the events began....it really could make things worse!
I read an article about her, where she said she had "a guardian"; so, she apparently has been involved w/ spiritism for awhile. That doesn't sound good! (What was she? A spirit medium?) Her poor kids!
Deuteronomy 18:10-12
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gnostic
The Lost One
Physical science is only concerned with investigating, explaining nd testing natural phenomena, natural events, not the spiritual realms or not supernatural and paranormal phenomena.
In any case, there are no empirical and verifiable evidences to support these supernatural. Just personal belief, superstition, religious doctrines and dogma. They are nothing anyone and everyone can test, so everything that people choose to believe, are highly subjective.
And I think you already know my position on “anecdotal evidences”, where I don’t view anecdote as evidence at all, as I believe they are useless in science. The only merits for anecdotes if they were used in philosophy, in religions and in pseudoscience claims of supernatural.
And from my experiences with our debates, I know you tends to favor anecdotes more than actual evidences.
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