What do you associate with the word "Pagan" ?

[-Peacemaker-]

Do they? How many have you known (that you're aware of)?

Let's cut to the chase. I realize that there are plenty pagans that claim to trust their gods but conveniently their belief systems provide no opportunity for them to demonstrate that faith because their god doesn't call upon them to actually trust him/her with their lives. It's just not an impressive claim for me if no one ever has to demonstrate their professed faith in a practical way.

 

[Storm]

Let's cut to the chase. I realize that there are plenty pagans that claim to trust their gods but conveniently their belief systems provide no opportunity for them to demonstrate that faith because their god doesn't call upon them to actually trust him/her with their lives. It's just not an impressive claim for me if no one ever has to demonstrate their professed faith in a practical way.

Uh huh. When's the last time you stepped off a cliff to prove God would catch you?

ETA: I'll repeat the question: how many pagans have you known?

 

[horizon]

It's just not an impressive claim for me if no one ever has to demonstrate their professed faith in a practical way.

If they were living their path, wouldn’t that by definition be practical. Every day is not going be filled with life changing/altering situations.

 

[Rakhel]

Of course I do. There all are kinds of epople who demonstrate trust in a higher power all over the world, sometimes through bizarre and drastic measures. Now whether or not I think that faith is misplaced is a different matter entirely. In this case, I am singling out Western pagans by calling them glorified agnostics because I actually have some experience dealing with them. Keep in mind that this is a generalization as well. I have no doubt that there are many pagans who've put all their chips on the god they worship as opposed to themselves but they appear to be the exception, not the norm.

This all just looks like Christianity to me.
Many Christians demonstrate trust in a higher power all over the world, sometimes through bizarre and drastic measures.
Now whether or not I think that faith in misplaced is a different matter,entirely.
In this case, I am singling out Christians by calling them glorified agnostics because I have some experience dealing with them.
Keep in mind that this is a generalization as well.
I have no doubt that there are many Christians who've put all their chips on the god they worship as opposed to themselves but they appear to be the exception, not the norm.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

If they were living their path, wouldn’t that by definition be practical. Every day is not going be filled with life changing/altering situations.

Not if they were living the same as they would if they didn't have this god in their lives.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Uh huh. When's the last time you stepped off a cliff to prove God would catch you?

ETA: I'll repeat the question: how many pagans have you known?

First and foremost, the Christian demonstrates his faith by repenting of what HIS GOD defines as evil, not himself. He does this because he believes his God's promise that he'll replace the old ways and satisfy him with something better.

 

[Father Heathen]

I fail to see how the lives of self-described pagans really differs from agnostics and atheists in the West apart from some religious practices.

I think it's the part where they believe in god(s) and the supernatural, concepts that are in fact not exclusive or original to the abrahamic faiths. Shocking, I know.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

This all just looks like Christianity to me.
Many Christians demonstrate trust in a higher power all over the world, sometimes through bizarre and drastic measures.
Now whether or not I think that faith in misplaced is a different matter,entirely.
In this case, I am singling out Christians by calling them glorified agnostics because I have some experience dealing with them.
Keep in mind that this is a generalization as well.
I have no doubt that there are many Christians who've put all their chips on the god they worship as opposed to themselves but they appear to be the exception, not the norm.

I might agree, though I'd qualify that remark with "many professing Christians"

 

[horizon]

First and foremost, the Christian demonstrates his faith by repenting of what HIS GOD defines as evil, not himself. He does this because he believes his God's promise that he'll replace the old ways and satisfy him with something better.

If that is the goal, won’t there come a time when all of the old ways have been replaced with something better? And then what?

 

[Storm]

First and foremost, the Christian demonstrates his faith by repenting of what HIS GOD defines as evil, not himself. He does this because he believes his God's promise that he'll replace the old ways and satisfy him with something better.

And you know this is different from the average pagan, how?

 

[Quintessence]

Not if they were living the same as they would if they didn't have this god in their lives.

For the record, I would definitely NOT be living the same way if I were not Neopagan. BTW, it's gods, not god.

Also for the record, this thread has been so profoundly derailed from its original intention that it stopped being amusing at least three pages ago.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

And you know this is different from the average pagan, how?

By all means correct me if I'm wrong. Tell me how Western pagan ideas about morality differ from those of secular America

 

[horizon]

By all means correct me if I'm wrong. Tell me how Western pagan ideas about morality differ from those of secular America

I can give a couple of examples. I am both pro-life and anti death penalty.

 

[Storm]

By all means correct me if I'm wrong. Tell me how Western pagan ideas about morality differ from those of secular America

There was nothing about morality in your post, only obedience to God. But you are quite correct - the average pagan puts thought into their morality, rather than mindlessly swallowing whatever their pastor thinks a book says. Mainly because they haven't pastors or authoritative books.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

There was nothing about morality in your post, only obedience to God. But you are quite correct - the average pagan puts thought into their morality, rather than mindlessly swallowing whatever their pastor thinks a book says. Mainly because they haven't pastors or authoritative books.

Translation: I'm right

p.s. morality and obedience to God are connected here on planet Earth

 

[Me Myself]

I think that contradicts the definition of a true Christian. You have to remember that for Christians, this is about finding forgiveness, not about getting some high.

Bull. Being a Christian is being like Christ. It´s about forgiving, not about someone else forgiving you.

Also, this "high" you describe is called faith. If you don´t have it, you are not very sensible to what God wants for you.

 

[Me Myself]

Translation: I'm right

p.s. morality and obedience to God are connected here on planet Earth

You are right about us caring enough about morality to not pick it from a hat

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Bull. Being a Christian is being like Christ. It´s about forgiving, not about someone else forgiving you.

Also, this "high" you describe is called faith. If you don´t have it, you are not very sensible to what God wants for you.

Do we really need to pull out John 3:16?

 

[horizon]

p.s. morality and obedience to God are connected here on planet Earth

Wouldn’t you want to be a good person because it’s the right thing to do? I don’t think any of us should need someone/something to tell us that.

 

[Me Myself]

First and foremost, the Christian demonstrates his faith by repenting of what HIS GOD defines as evil, not himself. He does this because he believes his God's promise that he'll replace the old ways and satisfy him with something better.

Correction, by what you think your God defines as evil.

You would not be open to know your God´s opinion on anything of today though. You are too bussy reading a document written 2000 years ago to hear anything God has to tell you today. If God tried to told you things have changed, you would be unable to hear him.