what do you feel is wrong with homosexuality?

[lkb817]

I was trying not to scare off lbk, but it's true. All new lesbian members are required by forum rules to check in with me, the Head Lesbian, before posting. KIDDING! Nice to have you here. Religious affiliation?

My sincerest apologies! I will considered myself warned! :bow:

I was raised southern baptist, however at this point in my life I would consider myself agnostic.

 

[Evandr]

Could you provide some evidence for that claim?

I'm surprised that you would even ask that question. God and His commandments are one of the bulwark issues around which this forum is built.

However, no - I cannot prove to you what I know to be true other than handing you a copy of the Bible (and the other standard works of of which I believe to be scripture) and ask that you read them but I don't think I should have to do that because methinks you already have. In other words you have to find out for your self.

That is part of the trial - "seeing if you care enough to make sure all your ducks are in a row with regard to what you believe about God." The best I can say is seek wisdom through a personal relationship with God and if what I say is true He will tell you as he has told me. If you are satisfied that you have already done that and still are at odds with me then that is the way it will have to stay until something changes. We will simply agree to disagree and continue on as gentlemen.

I wish in the worst way that I could impress upon you what has been impressed upon me, line upon line, precept upon precept for years by the Holy Ghost, but I can only give you food for thought, that's all that anybody can do for another person.

True learning only comes when the spirit of the Holly Ghost melds with your own and imparts knowledge to you. It goes far beyond teaching, a person knows something because the Holy Ghost knows it, not simply because the Holy Ghost said it.

 

[Evandr]

My sincerest apologies! I will considered myself warned! :bow:

I was raised southern baptist, however at this point in my life I would consider myself agnostic.

In light of all the heavy-handed speak that is floating around this thread, this light heartedness is both refreshing and welcome.

 

[McBell]

I'm surprised that you would even ask that question. God and His commandments are one of the bulwark issues around which this forum is built.

However, no - I cannot prove to you what I know to be true other than handing you a copy of the Bible (and the other standard works of of which I believe to be scripture) and ask that you read them but I don't think I should have to do that because methinks you already have. In other words you have to find out for your self.

That is part of the trial - "seeing if you care enough to make sure all your ducks are in a row with regard to what you believe about God." The best I can say is seek wisdom through a personal relationship with God and if what I say is true He will tell you as he has told me. If you are satisfied that you have already done that and still are at odds with me then that is the way it will have to stay until something changes. We will simply agree to disagree and continue on as gentlemen.

I wish in the worst way that I could impress upon you what has been impressed upon me, line upon line, precept upon precept for years by the Holy Ghost, but I can only give you food for thought, that's all that anybody can do for another person.

True learning only comes when the spirit of the Holly Ghost melds with your own and imparts knowledge to you. It goes far beyond teaching, a person knows something because the Holy Ghost knows it, not simply because the Holy Ghost said it.

And what of all the differing "Gods Standards" held by the differing denominations?

 

[Autodidact]

Let's not quibble about this, history has shown that God severely punishes those who fail to keep his commandments - that is a problem for a belligerent society.

Really? That's fascinating. Can you provide some documented examples of this?

I think that there are two fronts here, temporal and spiritual. If you do not believe in the commandments of God then you will ignore the spiritual considerations and, in that case, yes

I beg to differ. I do not believe that God exists, let alone has commandments, but the spiritual aspect of my love life is a very important component.

– Homosexuality is fine for the individual

Great! We agree on something.

but the unrest associated with it still remains a socially painful issue and, given the social longevity of both sides of the issue, there is little reason to believe that it will ever go away.

What unrest are you talking about? I don't have any unrest about my homosexuality, nor does anyone close to me. Do you?

I assure you it will not go away. There have always been, and probably always will be, gay people. The same cannot be said for Mormons.

Temporally, the position of homosexuality and the social ills that Lucifer is able to stir up is a great problem. On that point both sides of the line have guilt that causes suffering and that is a huge problem for which everybody has a part. Social unrest, a break down of the family unit, prejudice, hate, pain of both body and soul, these are all problems that Lucifer delights in, or people simply like fighting about. Either way it is a problem. (Please don't say it, I know that this holds true for a lot of issues but we are talking about homosexuality here.)

I'm sorry, this was just gibberish to me. Could you try to say it again? I don't get the connection between homosexuality and either social unrest or the breakdown in the family unit. If heterosexuals are getting divorced, isn't that a heterosexual problem? Gay people aren't making straight people get divorced. And as for gay families, isn't supporting us a better way to keep our family units intact? I agree that prejudice is a bad thing, so shouldn't you be fighting against it--not for it? As I said, I don't quite understand what you're saying, but if your point is that disagreement is bad, then just agree with me and we won't have a problem.

There are also spiritual effects. History had demonstraited that the only valid and wise view of homosexuality is that which our king and lawgiver has indicated that we should have.

Really? How has history demonstrated this?

Failure to follow the commandments of God will have eternal consequences.

Just in case there is such a thing.

A homosexual relationship, however deep and caring, will end in mortality

well, of course, so will a heterosexual relationship--what's your point?

and the participants will, as we all will for everything we do contrary to the commandments of God, be compelled to stand before God to explain themselves.

So will you. I hope you look forward to explaining to God why you worked to further prejudice and bigotry.

That is a problem for those involved because the family unit, set up the way God has decreed, is the only way eternal progression can be accomplished.

Sez you.

The following is what I believe, you can take it with a grain of salt or you can get greatly annoyed, it's up to you.

I'm not annoyed. Amused possibly, but not annoyed.

Social and sexual gratifications are not rights they are privileges, a gift if you will. No one has the right to alter the commandments of God because they cannot find such pleasure within the bounds the Lord has set nor is it the Lord's fault that they cannot. I also believe that no one is left without choice, even if that choice has to be abstinence. Millions have taken a vow of celibacy to serve God according to the dictates of their conscience and have lived long lives. I would not recommend celibacy; I am only saying that I believe that turning away from homosexuality is possible. Others have had to turn away from acting on feelings other than sodomy that were just as strong so homosexuals should not put themselves in some special category that should ignore the commandments of God.

Except of course, that there is no such commandment. I've asked you for it several times, and it just plain doesn't exist. There are however several commandments that apply to you, so you should probably worry about those actual commandments rather than making up non-existent ones for others.

No one has ever said it would be easy, only that it is worth it to keep the commandments. In the end, we will all discover that we are the product of what we made ourselves to be from the beginning. I am not trying to hurt anybodies feelings, only to show them that if they have tendencies toward homosexuality, the path that they are on is of their own doing, a choice that had it's beginning in the pre-mortal existence wherein we chose the paths we would take. I realize that great care should be taken to respect everyone, regardless of orientation, and extend a loving arm of fellowship. In other words, you can abhore the sin and still love those wrapped in it.

Of course I've chosen my own path. It's also a very fulfilling path, one of love, integrity and truth, and I'm happy with it.

I would imagine that the scoffs, scorn, and accusations towards warnings being given then concerning the difficulties that would be suffered here were as impudent as those I am receiving by some of this forum regarding the consequences I believe will be metted out in post mortal existence.

sorry, lost you again. Maybe smaller words?

If there is pain in mortality because of conflicts with desire and the commandments of God or the preaching of others, you have as much responcibility as any about the pain you are suffering and you must rectify it as you see fit. In other words, I believe that homosexuals are on a path of their own choosing so they have no right to blame others for the difficulties they are having nor are heterosexuals (such as myself) who try to shine a light on a different path guilty of being inconsiderate or unfeeling. It pains me to know what I know and then have others decry my efforts as anything but caring. In fact it is down right hard to suffer the ridicule of others trying to justify ignoring God.

Blame? If someone else made me a lesbian, I would thank them. I can believe that you think that telling other people you think their way of life is wrong is caring, and I look forward to doing the same to you. Because of course, your entire religion is completely and totally wrong from start to finish. Don't take offense, I'm just shining a light on a different path.

I would rather suffer here than to face you there, where it is too late to change, and have you rightfully accuse me of not trying to show you another way.

Ditto. How about those kinderhook plates, man?

 

[Autodidact]

Taking away all the religous reasons why homosexuality is wrong, look at it from a biological point of view. The plumbing is all wrong. The "main point" of sex is procreation.

Well, that may be the main point of your sex, and I pity you and any sex partners you are lucky enough to persuade to share this with.

Obviously this can't happen with same sex couples. And don't start talking about how two men or two women CAN have sex. They may be able to "pleasure" each other (I use that term loosely when it comes to men) but it's not sex. Biologically it's wrong.

Non-reproductive sex is wrong? Does that include all non-reproductive sex, such as two people beyond child-bearing age, or only homosexuality? Why is non-reproductive sex wrong? Is chewing gum wrong because it doesn't provide nutrition?

O.K., you're right. It's not sex. Therefore it's not prohibited--it's just a fun way for two people to share their love and affection.

 

[Autodidact]

Let's not get hung up on the term commandment although it is used a lot. If God says something is wrong or abominable, either by his own mouth or by His holy prophets (it is the same), He doesn't have to say "Don't do it", because to an intelligent individual it is implied. See http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/1050750-post71.html for a few references.

What? What on earth are you trying to say here? Where does God say anything whatsoever about lesbian sex, let alone that it's an abomination? I hope you don't eat seafood, though, because God was pretty clear on that point.

 

[Autodidact]

Welcome to the Forums!

By the way, how do you know the main point of sex is procreation? What do you mean by "main point"? And how would you distinguish a main point from a not main point?

Well, the fact that humans and monkeys seem to be the only animals that are capable of "enjoying" sex. All other animals mate to produce offspring.

Sorry, you're mistaken. Many animals enjoy sex just for pleasure, and hundreds of species have been observed engaging in homosexual acts.

 

[Smoke]

Sorry, you're mistaken. Many animals enjoy sex just for pleasure, and hundreds of species have been observed engaging in homosexual acts.

Just about all animals that have sex, have sex for pleasure. Family planning is virtually unheard of among the lower orders, and they're remarkably unconcerned about whether their family names live on.

 

[Autodidact]

I'm surprised that you would even ask that question. God and His commandments are one of the bulwark issues around which this forum is built.

Well, to be more precise, the question of whether there is any such thing, and if so what they are, is what this forum is all about.

However, no - I cannot prove to you what I know to be true

Stop and think about this sentence. You know it to be true--but you can't prove it? Wow, that's scary.

other than handing you a copy of the Bible (and the other standard works of of which I believe to be scripture) and ask that you read them but I don't think I should have to do that because methinks you already have. In other words you have to find out for your self.

Yes, but why do you think they're true. And, as I say, even if you do, they don't happen to actually prohibit lesbianism. Ever. Anywhere. In either testament. That's because it isn't prohibited.

That is part of the trial - "seeing if you care enough to make sure all your ducks are in a row with regard to what you believe about God." The best I can say is seek wisdom through a personal relationship with God and if what I say is true He will tell you as he has told me. If you are satisfied that you have already done that and still are at odds with me then that is the way it will have to stay until something changes. We will simply agree to disagree and continue on as gentlemen.

Why would I want a personal relationship with a non-existent being? We have a word for that, and it isn't very flattering. Especially if you have no proof and no way to convince me there is any such thing. btw I have some money in a bank account in Nigeria, will you help me transfer it here? There's something in it for you.

I wish in the worst way that I could impress upon you what has been impressed upon me, line upon line, precept upon precept for years by the Holy Ghost, but I can only give you food for thought, that's all that anybody can do for another person.

O.K. Digest for this: If it hadn't been impressed on you line upon line precept upon precept, would you still believe it? Because we have a word for that too, it's called "brainwashing."

True learning only comes when the spirit of the Holly Ghost melds with your own and imparts knowledge to you. It goes far beyond teaching, a person knows something because the Holy Ghost knows it, not simply because the Holy Ghost said it.

So atheists are not capable of learning then? Did anyone tell Bertrand Russell? btw, arrogant much? I assume that you're capable of learning, despite your primitive indoctrination in a bizarre myth-system.

 

[sojourner]

I believe that turning away from homosexuality is possible.

I believe that homosexuals are on a path of their own choosing

You've never been homosexual, have you? It's easy for outsiders to spout these two phrases. I know that, at one time, it was easy for me to spout them. Until I realized that people just don't choose to be either gay or straight. They just are what they are. Every gay person I know (and I've known many) would change their orientation in a minute, if they could. Addtitionally, I've known two gay individuals who tried to change through prayer and spiritual direction. One ended up suicidal. Thank God he finally learned to embrace himself the way God made him. The other joined a fundamental church, got married, and is now in and out of institutions, so thoroughly depressed that his marriage failed and he cannot function productively. Somehow, I just don't think that's what God intends.

 

[sojourner]

Let me amend one thing I said in post #191.

Some wish to change -- many do not. But what they all wish would change is how they are held by society. Being who one is just shouldn't experience the social stigma we have chosen to foist upon our homosexual community.

 

[Francine]

If someone else made me a lesbian, I would thank them.

Woman by birth, lesbian by Grace. If you see Grace, tell her 'Hi!'

 

[Francine]

Taking away all the religous reasons why homosexuality is wrong, look at it from a biological point of view. The plumbing is all wrong.

If the plumbing was all correct, the man's penis would be on his chin.

 

[Francine]

I wonder what a half human leg, half dog looks like?

No one ever sees those, because they're always off somewhere by themselves having a good time.

 

[Autodidact]

You've never been homosexual, have you? It's easy for outsiders to spout these two phrases. I know that, at one time, it was easy for me to spout them. Until I realized that people just don't choose to be either gay or straight. They just are what they are. Every gay person I know (and I've known many) would change their orientation in a minute, if they could.

Hi, sojourner. Nice to meet you. I would not change my sexual orientation if I could. I'm very happy with it. It suits me, and I am blessed with the love of the best woman in the world. I know quite a few lesbians who feel the same way.

Being gay isn't moral because it's not a matter of choice; it's moral because it's moral.

 

[Autodidact]

If the plumbing was all correct, the man's penis would be on his chin.

Now stop that.

 

[Francine]

They may be able to "pleasure" each other (I use that term loosely when it comes to men) but it's not sex. Biologically it's wrong.

Biologically, it's wrong for people to smell good. Does that mean I need to get rid of my Lady Speed Stick?

 

[Mike182]

if i could change my sexual orientation, i would have to think a lot about it... i would be very tempted to change it, but at the same time, i wouldn't want that to reflect back on other homosexuals who don't want to change - i think that would increase the social crap they get, and i would be to blame for that.

so no, i would not change my sexuality, even though i would want to.

Edit: as for homosexuality being biologically wrong, that i do not believe for one instance. unless you're doing it wrong. in which case, PM me, i'll draw you a diagram and advise you on what condoms and lube to buy, because they are of critical importance.

 

[gnomon]

God's created male and female and specified to be fruitful and multiply the land.
What part of that equation do people not understand.

Because the equation is missing some factors.

See here,
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/theological-concepts/60129-theology-intersex.html

I'm still waiting for someone with such beliefs as you expressed to tackle this one.

I'll probably be waiting a long time but who knows?