what do you feel is wrong with homosexuality?

[Autodidact]

Hi everyone...new here to these boards!

As a lesbian, my question is this:

Why do certain religious groups want to keep my partner and me from marrying? Why is there a fear of treating others equally?

I imagine that those opposed would be outraged if they were told they couldn't marry the person they loved.

Hi and welcome!
I find that many Christians have trouble with the idea of treating others as they would like to be treated.

 

[lkb817]

a lot of us have been asking that, and there seems to be no decent enough answer to explain the lack of gay rights in this area.

welcome to the forums

Thanks for all the "welcomes"!

I have yet to hear a valid argument against gays being able to marry.

I was raised in a strict, southern baptist home where mention of homosexuality was met with ridicule. As you can imagine, my coming out to my mother was interesting. She has yet to say why she is against marriage for me, her lesbian daughter.

 

[Francine]

As a lesbian, my question is this:

First of all, don't forget to check in with Autodidact. When I came here I got in a lot of trouble for not checking in with the Head Lesbian.

Why do certain religious groups want to keep my partner and me from marrying? Why is there a fear of treating others equally?

Certain leaders always need a target to direct the people's hatred away from their own incompetence. In the Middle East, this target is Israel. In America, the target used to be African-Americans, and Catholics, and Jews, but society eventually disapproved of scapegoating those groups. Most recently, the target has been gays and lesbians themselves, but after the Stonewall riot in 1969 members of the LGBT community have gradually won nearly all the rights that "real" citizens have. Only a few spot fires remain. When gays and lesbians ask to adopt children, this is something that can still be denied them, despite the Right's opposition to abortion which one would think would make them more accomodating of couples who want to adopt. Finally, gays and lesbians are asking for all the civil benefits that are granted to married heterosexual couples. There is no real reason to deny these, other than vague warnings that it would somehow "destroy traditional marriage". Gays and lesbians are denied this request simply because they are making the request from people who hate them.

 

[doppelganger]

the Head Lesbian.

I do enjoy a good double entendre.

 

[sojourner]

Why is there a fear of treating others equally?

If they were honest, they'd tell you that you're not equal to them, therefore, you don't deserve equal treatment. If you're openly practicing your homosexuality, you're an unrepentant sinner, undeserving of God's favor. In spite of what Jesus said, there is no such thing as equality in these kinds of groups.

 

[Autodidact]

I was trying not to scare off lbk, but it's true. All new lesbian members are required by forum rules to check in with me, the Head Lesbian, before posting. KIDDING! Nice to have you here. Religious affiliation?

 

[Draka]

What do you think is wrong with homosexuality from a religious view point?

Not one darn thing.

 

[Evandr]

Evandr, it looks like my post got lost in the middle somewhere and you maybe didn't see it. anyway, here it is again for you:

which problem are you referring to, and in what way would you like to eliminate it?

Let's not quibble about this, history has shown that God severely punishes those who fail to keep his commandments - that is a problem for a belligerent society.

I think that there are two fronts here, temporal and spiritual. If you do not believe in the commandments of God then you will ignore the spiritual considerations and, in that case, yes – Homosexuality is fine for the individual but the unrest associated with it still remains a socially painful issue and, given the social longevity of both sides of the issue, there is little reason to believe that it will ever go away.

Temporally, the position of homosexuality and the social ills that Lucifer is able to stir up is a great problem. On that point both sides of the line have guilt that causes suffering and that is a huge problem for which everybody has a part. Social unrest, a break down of the family unit, prejudice, hate, pain of both body and soul, these are all problems that Lucifer delights in, or people simply like fighting about. Either way it is a problem. (Please don't say it, I know that this holds true for a lot of issues but we are talking about homosexuality here.)

There are also spiritual effects. History had demonstraited that the only valid and wise view of homosexuality is that which our king and lawgiver has indicated that we should have. Failure to follow the commandments of God will have eternal consequences. A homosexual relationship, however deep and caring, will end in mortality and the participants will, as we all will for everything we do contrary to the commandments of God, be compelled to stand before God to explain themselves. That is a problem for those involved because the family unit, set up the way God has decreed, is the only way eternal progression can be accomplished.

The following is what I believe, you can take it with a grain of salt or you can get greatly annoyed, it's up to you.

Social and sexual gratifications are not rights they are privileges, a gift if you will. No one has the right to alter the commandments of God because they cannot find such pleasure within the bounds the Lord has set nor is it the Lord's fault that they cannot. I also believe that no one is left without choice, even if that choice has to be abstinence. Millions have taken a vow of celibacy to serve God according to the dictates of their conscience and have lived long lives. I would not recommend celibacy; I am only saying that I believe that turning away from homosexuality is possible. Others have had to turn away from acting on feelings other than sodomy that were just as strong so homosexuals should not put themselves in some special category that should ignore the commandments of God.

No one has ever said it would be easy, only that it is worth it to keep the commandments. In the end, we will all discover that we are the product of what we made ourselves to be from the beginning. I am not trying to hurt anybodies feelings, only to show them that if they have tendencies toward homosexuality, the path that they are on is of their own doing, a choice that had it's beginning in the pre-mortal existence wherein we chose the paths we would take. I realize that great care should be taken to respect everyone, regardless of orientation, and extend a loving arm of fellowship. In other words, you can abhore the sin and still love those wrapped in it.

I would imagine that the scoffs, scorn, and accusations towards warnings being given then concerning the difficulties that would be suffered here were as impudent as those I am receiving by some of this forum regarding the consequences I believe will be metted out in post mortal existence.

If there is pain in mortality because of conflicts with desire and the commandments of God or the preaching of others, you have as much responcibility as any about the pain you are suffering and you must rectify it as you see fit. In other words, I believe that homosexuals are on a path of their own choosing so they have no right to blame others for the difficulties they are having nor are heterosexuals (such as myself) who try to shine a light on a different path guilty of being inconsiderate or unfeeling. It pains me to know what I know and then have others decry my efforts as anything but caring. In fact it is down right hard to suffer the ridicule of others trying to justify ignoring God.

I would rather suffer here than to face you there, where it is too late to change, and have you rightfully accuse me of not trying to show you another way.

 

[McBell]

Let's not quibble about this, history has shown that God severely punishes those who fail to keep his commandments - that is a problem for a belligerent society.


There are also spiritual effects. History had demonstraited that the only valid and wise view of homosexuality is that which our king and lawgiver has indicated that we should have. Failure to follow the commandments of God will have eternal consequences. A homosexual relationship, however deep and caring, will end in mortality and the participants will, as we all will for everything we do contrary to the commandments of God, be compelled to stand before God to explain themselves. That is a problem for those involved because the family unit, set up the way God has decreed, is the only way eternal progression can be accomplished.

Which commandments?
The Ten handed over to Moses?
The 613 from the OT?
The one(s) (the number is in dispute) from the NT?

 

[Evandr]

What I mean is that not everyone holds your standards. You don't get to arbitrarily say that "my standards are higher than yours, therefore, I'm justified in saying what I say to you low-lifes."

These are not my standards they are God's but you seem intent on believing that if you shoot the messenger then your position will improve.

I'm not saying that you're giving meat instead of milktoast. I'm saying that you're covering up the meat with horse crap and cramming it down our throats.

Low-life? - You said that, I didn't - whose cramming horse crap now? It is really tireing listening to those who resort to railing on someone to cover up the fact that they cannot effectively argue against them.

Physics tells us that for every structure there is an appropriate weight. The weight of self-righteous judgment upon fellow human beings is not tolerated well, when the structure was designed (by God) for love and acceptance.

I am not judging anybody; it is you who are judging me. I have simply laid on the table for all to see what millions of others have said before me. Even Jesus Christ used point blank language concerning the fate of those who ignore him. I'm not going to pooh-pooh people just so they can go on fooling themselves; what kind of friend would do that? Not me!

Oh, my! We are self-important, aren't we? Is your ivory tower comfortable enough for you? Have you so far removed yourself from the sinners of the world that you conveniently can no longer see them clearly?

Yes, that did come across a bit high-minded but it doesn’t change what I said.

Perhaps if you pulled your head out past your hopelessly tight sphincter once in a while, you'd find that the world is full of people who have dealt a long time ago with their issues surrounding homosexuality and their issues with righteousness. If you see us as a long way off, it's because we left you sitting in the dust long, long ago. We stop, turn, and call you to hurry up and join us in a world that knows God as tolerant, loving, accepting, and celebratory of us, no matter whom we are. Perhaps, like the Pharisees, who insisted upon carrying around the dead weight of keeping the commandments, and could not follow Jesus, you, too, are being held back by an allegiance to commandments that were fulfilled two thousand years ago. A cross might be a better weight for you to bear.

Perhaps you will be one of the many who will make that journey to greater things, in time.

Hey, try to remember that in a debate forum such as this it is customary to engage in a point-counter-point discussion not a point-shoot the opponent game. So cut it out :slap: (please)

 

[rheff78]

Taking away all the religous reasons why homosexuality is wrong, look at it from a biological point of view. The plumbing is all wrong. The "main point" of sex is procreation. Obviously this can't happen with same sex couples. And don't start talking about how two men or two women CAN have sex. They may be able to "pleasure" each other (I use that term loosely when it comes to men) but it's not sex. Biologically it's wrong.

 

[sandandfoam]

The "main point" of sex is procreation.

News to me

 

[McBell]

These are not my standards they are God's but you seem intent on believing that if you shoot the messenger then your position will improve.

They are you standards in that they are what YOU BELIEVE your Gods standards to be.

There are other whole denominations that disagree with what you claim Gods standards to be.

 

[Sunstone]

Taking away all the religous reasons why homosexuality is wrong, look at it from a biological point of view. The plumbing is all wrong. The "main point" of sex is procreation. Obviously this can't happen with same sex couples. And don't start talking about how two men or two women CAN have sex. They may be able to "pleasure" each other (I use that term loosely when it comes to men) but it's not sex. Biologically it's wrong.

Welcome to the Forums!

By the way, how do you know the main point of sex is procreation? What do you mean by "main point"? And how would you distinguish a main point from a not main point?

 

[Sunstone]

These are not my standards they are God's...

Could you provide some evidence for that claim?

 

[Evandr]

Which commandments?
The Ten handed over to Moses?
The 613 from the OT?
The one(s) (the number is in dispute) from the NT?

Let's not get hung up on the term commandment although it is used a lot. If God says something is wrong or abominable, either by his own mouth or by His holy prophets (it is the same), He doesn't have to say "Don't do it", because to an intelligent individual it is implied. See http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/1050750-post71.html for a few references.

 

[rheff78]

Welcome to the Forums!

By the way, how do you know the main point of sex is procreation? What do you mean by "main point"? And how would you distinguish a main point from a not main point?

Well, the fact that humans and monkeys seem to be the only animals that are capable of "enjoying" sex. All other animals mate to produce offspring.

 

[McBell]

Let's not get hung up on the term commandment although it is used a lot. If God says something is wrong or abominable, either by his own mouth or by His holy prophets (it is the same), He doesn't have to say "Don't do it", because to an intelligent individual it is implied. See http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/1050750-post71.html for a few references.

the point is that as long as you are picking and choosing which commandments are to be followed...

 

[sandandfoam]

Well, the fact that humans and monkeys seem to be the only animals that are capable of "enjoying" sex. All other animals mate to produce offspring.

Maybe it has functions other that procreation for us and monkeys?
I think it has, think "enjoying".

 

[McBell]

All other animals mate to produce offspring.

I wonder what a half human leg, half dog looks like?