what do you feel is wrong with homosexuality?

[Autodidact]

Perhaps you misunderstand the stance Christianity takes on the subject. No follower of Christ gay or straight is condemned period! Sexual immorality including homosexuality as an action is sinful and condemned but forgiven just the same as all sins through belief in Christ's sacrifice!

Where is that prohibition against lesbianism again?

 

[Autodidact]

So in your opinion there is no accurate translation of the word solely on the basis of no continued and varied use of the word within the text itself?

So the experts tell us: no one knows what Paul was driving at.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

The translations are more or less guesses because there aren't any other contexts contemporaneous with Paul's writing from which any confident meaning can be discerned.

Are you still talking about homosexuality? Plutarch discusses it in his dialogue on love, and Plutarch is a first century writer, writing in Greek.

 

[Autodidact]

homosexuality is sinful as it is written as immoral this is the christian standpoint!

1. No, it's YOUR Christian standpoint. There is no unanimity among Christians about this.
2. It is not clear what is written to be sinful, since no one knows what an arsenekoi is.
3. Even if male homosexuality is prohibited, which is not clear, lesbianism clearly is not, as, in your words, it is not written.

 

[Autodidact]

Are you still talking about homosexuality? Plutarch discusses it in his dialogue on love, and Plutarch is a first century writer, writing in Greek.

Yes, but he doesn't use the word "arsenekoi." So that's no help. In fact, the fact that other writers discuss homosexuality without using that term tend to argue against it meaning that, see what I mean?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Yes, but he doesn't use the word "arsenekoi." So that's no help. In fact, the fact that other writers discuss homosexuality without using that term tend to argue against it meaning that, see what I mean?

He uses all of the other terms that Paul uses. Paul doesn't exclusively use one word to describe homosexuality (arsenekoi), but several other words and phrases which have a long history of being used to describe it.

 

[astarath]

1. No, it's YOUR Christian standpoint. There is no unanimity among Christians about this.
2. It is not clear what is written to be sinful, since no one knows what an arsenekoi is.
3. Even if male homosexuality is prohibited, which is not clear, lesbianism clearly is not, as, in your words, it is not written.

1. Among Christians homosexuality most assuredly is sexually immorral and a sin, the differing opinion is the recourse for this sin. There are those on the left who feel that this sin is as forgiveable as any other should be treated as such (my belief) and then there is the right wing that feel it is some special sin that is absolutely unforgiveable in the eyes of God

 

[astarath]

2. Paul does not define sin as he is not the writer of the Law. God decrees sin in the OT and forgives it in the new. The verses in the old testament are the ones that proclaim homosexuality as sinful due to sexual immorality. Call them Sodomites!

 

[astarath]

3. This is unbelievable that you would plead carte blanche due to the definition of a single greek word, but expect homosexual as describe in the OT to refer only to males!

 

[doppelganger]

Are you still talking about homosexuality? Plutarch discusses it in his dialogue on love, and Plutarch is a first century writer, writing in Greek.

Linky linky please (with the Greek if you can find it). Muchos groceries.

 

[Francine]

3. This is unbelievable that you would plead carte blanche due to the definition of a single greek word, but expect homosexual as describe in the OT to refer only to males!

The OT says mankind must not lie with mankind as with womankind. Since it makes this distinction, it must therefore teach that womankind must not lie with womankind as with mankind in order to make the prohibition unisex. But it fails to do so.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Linky linky please (with the Greek if you can find it). Muchos groceries.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/philosophy/47922-some-notes-paul-homosexuality.html

 

[astarath]

The OT says mankind must not lie with mankind as with womankind. Since it makes this distinction, it must therefore teach that womankind must not lie with womankind as with mankind in order to make the prohibition unisex. But it fails to do so.

The law you are refering to in Lev 18 specifies male as it is being written to the priesthood. However as this section on sexual morality is taken into account along with the book song of songs which is included in the canon as a sign of how a relationship is intended. As well the first relationship was not created man and man nor woman and woman but rather man and woman!

 

[gnomon]

IMHO false only in part, along with most others. When I view religion I don't look for perfection anymore. Firstly I am not in a position to determine whether or not it's perfect. Secondly, even if I was, I think I would still just end up chasing my tail. lol

This may be because your own theology does not hold such a defined concept of the male/female as the Abrahamic and other world religions do on the notion of male/female dichotomy.

Many Christians feel that the development of the biological sexes is perfect. It does not account for the existence of intersex individuals and it is towards those I direct my question.

 

[Autodidact]

1. Among Christians homosexuality most assuredly is sexually immorral and a sin, the differing opinion is the recourse for this sin. There are those on the left who feel that this sin is as forgiveable as any other should be treated as such (my belief) and then there is the right wing that feel it is some special sin that is absolutely unforgiveable in the eyes of God

You don't seem to be aware that there are thousands of Christians who do not believe that homosexuality is a sin, and an entire mainstream Christian Church with outreach to the gay community. Perhaps you've heard of [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1] Reverend V. Gene Robinson?


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[Francine]

However as this section on sexual morality is taken into account along with the book song of songs which is included in the canon as a sign of how a relationship is intended.

When you say a relationship is "intended" a certain way, you introduce a third party into the relationship, the one who intends. But a relationship is really between two parties, and they're the only ones who get to "intend".

 

[Autodidact]

2. Paul does not define sin as he is not the writer of the Law. God decrees sin in the OT and forgives it in the new. The verses in the old testament are the ones that proclaim homosexuality as sinful due to sexual immorality. Call them Sodomites!

You mean you follow Leviticus? No shellfish? No ham? No beard trimming or mixed fabrics?

btw, even those verses are unclear. Remember, you're translating here from ancient Hebrew--very uncertain enterprise. The phrase goes something like man-man-bed-woman-not. Not totally clear what is referred to.

What is absolutely indisputable is that lesbianism is not mentioned once in the OT. Zero. Zip. Silencio. 613 commandments, but none against that. In other words: it's permitted. Get over your prejudice about what you think it ought to say and read what it actually does say.

 

[Autodidact]

3. This is unbelievable that you would plead carte blanche due to the definition of a single greek word, but expect homosexual as describe in the OT to refer only to males!

Most Christians consider themselves to have been relieved from the OT purity taboos by the redemption of Christ. Perhaps you're not familiar with this concept?

 

[Smoke]

3. This is unbelievable that you would plead carte blanche due to the definition of a single greek word, but expect homosexual as describe in the OT to refer only to males!

Please cite any Old Testament scripture that refers to female homosexuality or to both male and female homosexuality.

 

[Francine]

What is absolutely indisputable is that lesbianism is not mentioned once in the OT. Zero. Zip. Silencio. 613 commandments, but none against that. In other words: it's permitted.

Yes, it's a loophole but some Rabbis are working overtime trying to close it.