what do you feel is wrong with homosexuality?

[rheff78]

Good Lord, I leave for little bit and 5 more pages have been added to the thread. Obviously this topic is one of great interest. Anyway, Draka, in response to your thread (way back on pg 35 or so, having degrees and credentials does automatically make you wise. Hitler had them to, and I think we can all agree his solution to problems was not wise. I have a masters degree but I don't assume I'm the authority on every subject. Anyway, what makes you so sure your point is more valid than mine? Are YOU that sure of your stance? So YOU are right and I am wrong? Is that what you are saying? What I'm hearing here is that the majority of the earth's population is just wrong and ignorant. Since most of them agree that homosexuality is wrong? Are YOU saying that you know better than most of the world?

 

[sandandfoam]

What I'm hearing here is that the majority of the earth's population is just wrong and ignorant. Since most of them agree that homosexuality is wrong? Are YOU saying that you know better than most of the world?

Why do you presume to speak for the majority of the earths population.
Times like this I wish I was gay.

 

[doppelganger]

Anyway, Draka, in response to your thread (way back on pg 35 or so, having degrees and credentials does automatically make you wise. Hitler had them to, and I think we can all agree his solution to problems was not wise.

"True idealism is nothing but the subordination of the interests and life of the individual to the community. . . . The sacrifice of personal existence is necessary to secure the preservation of the species."

What did Hitler's Third Reich do to homosexuals?

 

[doppelganger]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] "If the man's world is said to be the State . . . her world is her husband, her family, her children and her home . . . Every child that a woman brings into the world is a battle, a battle waged for the existence of her people.... It is not true ... that respect depends on the overlapping of the spheres of activity of the sexes; this respect demands that neither sex should try to do that which belongs to the sphere of the other."[/FONT]

 

[rheff78]

Stephen, if only you were bron gay, right?

Doppleganger, you didn't read. Draka was saying since she has a degree and all these credentials she is the one to say what is right and wrong. By comparison, so did Hitler.

 

[doppelganger]

Doppleganger, you didn't read.

That's actually a complete lie.

Draka was saying since she has a degree and all these credentials she is the one to say what is right and wrong. By comparison, so did Hitler.

And by comparison, Hitler shared the moral condemnation of homosexuals, too. And THAT comparison, unlike the one you are trying to make regarding his being educated, is not a red herring, but quite relevant to the topic at hand.

 

[Darkness]

What I'm hearing here is that the majority of the earth's population is just wrong and ignorant. Since most of them agree that homosexuality is wrong? Are YOU saying that you know better than most of the world?

Yes! Yes, I am. Homophobia is based on nothing rational but is merely an emotional hatred. At least if you anti-homosexuals could admit this, I could respect you a little.

“Seek not the favor of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means. But seek the testimony of few; and number not voices, but weigh them.” -- Immanuel Kan

“In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations, and epochs it is the rule.” -- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

[rheff78]

Darkness (nice name by the way), don't confuse homophobia with anit-homosexual feelings. I'm not a homophobe. I have gay friends, I tell them the samething I'm telling you. Does this mean I can't go out and share a drink with you, no. Do I think your gayness is a disease that I might catch if I hang around you, not at all. Come on, don't be that naive. I'm simply stating the problem I have with someone being gay.

 

[rheff78]

And Darkness, if you are going to use quotes, you are going to have to quote someone besides some as misguided and delusional Neitzsche.

 

[doppelganger]

And Darkness, if you are going to use quotes, you are going to have to quote someone besides some as misguided and delusional Neitzsche.

Ad hominen.

 

[rheff78]

Doppleganger, Im not trying to change the subject. People use quotes to support their claims, so I can refute those quotes with the question of the character of the person they choose.

 

[Wandered Off]

I can refute those quotes with the question of the character of the person they choose.

You can, but it's still the fallacy of ad hominem.

 

[doppelganger]

Doppleganger, Im not trying to change the subject. People use quotes to support their claims, so I can refute those quotes with the question of the character of the person they choose.

Right. And what you are engaging in is a formal logical fallacy known as argumentum ad hominem abusive. "Changing the subject" is a different logical fallacy. For example, suggesting-in a discussion about the moral condemnation of homosexuality-that someone who disagrees with you is like Hitler because he had a college education would be the fallacy of changing the subject (a "red herring") and also probably a fallacy of non sequitur.

Edit: on second thought, that example is also a round about ad hominem as well.

 

[rheff78]

Not if that subject is relevant to the topic at hand.

 

[Autodidact]

You only read half my statement and as such only understood half the point. The OT defines sin and Grace forgives it in the new. All people are guilty of sin it is only through Christ that one is saved or condemned. This is true regardless of the sin. (Homosexuality, adultery, lying, idolatry,...)

The question we are addressing here is: What is sin? You seem to be saying that one source of information about that is Leviticus, but I have met very few Christians who try to follow Leviticus. (Although, if you are really an Ebionite you might be one of them.) Almost all Christians say that these rules were superseded by Jesus' coming. I think they're wrong but hey, it's their religion. My question is: are you trying to assert that Leviticus' purity codes are still applicable to modern Christians, and that it is a sin to wear mixed fiber clothing? If not, then we can safely disregard Leviticus as a source of information about what is and is not sinful.

In any case, although you are doing a creditable job of sticking your fingers in your ears and humming loudly enough to drown out the point, neither Leviticus nor any other OT verse mentions lesbianism at all whatsoever bupkus, and nothing in the NT forbids it either.

 

[doppelganger]

Not if that subject is relevant to the topic at hand.

BTW, this all started with an insult:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/1055067-post286.html

Telling people who disagree with you that they are "ignorant" is probably not a good way to stimulate a meaningful discussion.

 

[rheff78]

ok, let's keep it civil. Maybe if you can tell me why homosexuality ISN'T wrong...

 

[Autodidact]

First quote the verse.

I was quoting the verse. Maybe you're not very familiar with the Bible? Here it is in a modern translation at greater length:
Ruth 1: Ruth replied, "Don't urge me to leave you or to turn back from you. Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God. 17 Where you die I will die, and there I will be buried. May the LORD deal with me, be it ever so severely, if anything but death separates you and me."
This passage is often quoted and used in wedding ceremonies.

Second understand the laws of sin are not applicable to only one sex but rather both man and woman.

So men are not allowed to preach in Church then? I think you need to think this through a little more.

As a christian marriage dictates that a union can only be blessed by God if joining a woman and a man this places any homosexual love both gay and lesbian in constant adultery. This would make that style of love sexually immoral.

Does it say this somewhere in the Bible? Or is this another example of you making assumptions about what the Bible should say instead of actually reading it?

 

[Autodidact]

Why would I not? Although he was not an apostle there are prophetic words within his words. His epistles as a whole are not valid from the view of an ebionite but there are several words when tested hold validity to Christ's teachings!

Read the above post!

What did Christ teach about homosexuality?

 

[Autodidact]

Second understand the laws of sin are not applicable to only one sex but rather both man and woman. As a christian marriage dictates that a union can only be blessed by God if joining a woman and a man this places any homosexual love both gay and lesbian in constant adultery. This would make that style of love sexually immoral.

No it doesn't. The obvious remedy to this is for the Church to bless gay marriages, which are also not prohibited.