What do you feel is wrong with Islam?

[Mujahid Mohammed]

If muslims have a problem with democracy why do they imigrate to a democratic nation such as England.

Some come for money, some come for education, some come to give dawah lots of reasons. But as I said it is not democracy that is the problem. And I did not say muslims had a problem with democracy as a whole. It is the things that can be voted into law, or things immoral that are looked at as socially acceptable.

There has always been immoral acts within islam

for example? what immoral acts is allowed in Islam? I did not know praying 5 times a day, helping those in need, not lying stealing, or killing someone without right is immoral.

It has been over 400 years since we escaped from religion in this country and better for it we are and democracy is the only way to go if you want a voice.
There are many athiests for example who are morally as good as the most devout religious follower so i don't think islam should be judgemental concerning other religions or ideals when its own is less that perfect.

Islam is not judgmental, people are. Non muslims have their own set of rules in Islam. They are not subjected to many of the punishments that Islam has for disobeying.

I certainly do not see Britain as ignorant or on the whole immoral,we and our allies fought two world wars and the last one against pure evil ,however there is much in some islamic countrys that benefits the few over the majority .

And you are telling me a capitalist system such as the one in Britain and the US. Does not benefit the few over the majority. Wow, Look at the banking system set up by international banking cartels, look at the statistics, study the tax law, look at the poor and middle class. the answer is clear.

I never said Britain as ignorant or immoral. I said it is a system that will allow the ignorant and the immoral to rule and establish laws. For the selection process of those put in power, is not based off of their knowledge or morality it is a popularity contest, and whichever person can sway the people using the power of media.

 

[pert opinion]

I don't feel that anything is wrong with Islam

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Alright, what percentage of people who call themselves Muslim would you consider to be real Muslims? Are you familiar with the "No True Scotsman" fallacy?

that is something that I cannot say. For to say a muslim is a non muslim or whatever is me casting judgment on him which is only for Allah. Allah will judge them, people will make mistakes, they will falll short, they will give in to their desires and they will commit sins. the real muslims come back to Allah when they make mistakes. the question is not whether of not they are real muslims, the question is are the people today who call themselves muslims the examples of real muslims. I have said over and over again they cannot. For the only example is the Messenger and his companions. for as I said Abdullah ibn Masa'ood told one of the tabi'een one of the second best gerations that if you want to follow a path. Follow the path of those that are dead, the Messenger pbuh and his companions. For the living among you may fail in their test.

Whereas they have been given the stamp of approval by Allah. So do we follow the people today. Did the Messenger or his companions do some of the crazy things people are doing now. Will you find an example of them reacting to diffuculty the same way you see people doing it now.

You won't find it. Again as I said I cannot judge a person, like Saddam. Saddam is everything that they say about him is true, then he has done things which some scholars would think would take a person out of islam. But Allah judges the heart, which none of us can. And everyperson has time to repent up until they die. So is Saddam a nonmuslim or fake muslim. I cannot say, If he says Allah is one only one to be worshipped and Muhammed is his last and final Messenger who am I to say he is lying. I cannot read the heart only the mind.

So we accept it, and wait for the decree of Allah on the matter.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

I don't feel that anything is wrong with Islam

Sorry but your in denial.

To EMLH (england) England is fantastically ignorant nation, probably the most ignorant on the planet. Half the nation does not know the difference between a hindu and a muslim, protestant from catholic from jew. They are stupid! Our nation is going down the drain, and i know i won't be here when it does.

 

[Autodidact]

that is something that I cannot say. For to say a muslim is a non muslim or whatever is me casting judgment on him which is only for Allah.

Well that's interesting. Because when I said that what I don't like about these people who call themselves Muslims, who dress, pray, believe that Muhammed is the only prophet of Allah, the only God and so forth, is that they kill innocent people, including other Muslims, beat women for dressing wrong, discriminate against gay people, restrict free speech, and that their countries are relatively poor and uneducated, your response was that they're not Muslim. Now you say you can't tell whether someone is Muslim or not?

If you can't tell whether someone is a Muslim or not, then how on earth can you say what you do or don't like about Muslims? It sounds like anything you don't like is just defined as not-Muslim.

For the third time, are you familiar with the No True Scotsman Fallacy?

Maybe it would help if you defined the word "Muslim."

Do you see how slippery and evasive you're being? Are you a Muslim? Is it Muslim to be slippery and evasive?

 

[sandandfoam]

Bismillah-hir-Rehman-ir-Rahim (In the name of Allah, most gracious, most merciful)
Please post your questions or misconceptions you have about Islam. I will Inshallah (which means hopefully) try to clarify. You can also try to prove to me a single thing in Islam which is bad. A single thing. I am just asking for one.

Here's a single thing :-
An official statement from Dakar Rally organisers quoted in MCN said: "Based on the current international political tension and the murder of four French tourists last 24th of December linked to a branch of Al-Qaeda in Islamic Maghreb, but also and mainly the direct threats launched directly against the race by terrorist organisations, no other decision but the cancellation of the sporting event could be taken by A.S.O (Dakar Rally organisers)."

 

[Autodidact]

Let's take some examples:
Ayatollah Khomeini: Muslim?
Osama Bin Laden?
Benazir Bhutto?
Louis Farakkhan?
King Fahd?
Moamar Kadhaffi?

If you can't tell whether these people are Muslims, how do you know whether followers of Islam do good or bad?

 

[Popeyesays]

A man can judge the actions of other men as good or evil with responsibility and justice.

Whatr a man cannot do responsibly or with justice is judge the contents of another man's soul.

Argument dissolved.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Sahar]

Let's take some examples:
Ayatollah Khomeini: Muslim?
Osama Bin Laden?
Benazir Bhutto?
Louis Farakkhan?
King Fahd?
Moamar Kadhaffi?

If you can't tell whether these people are Muslims, how do you know whether followers of Islam do good or bad?

To say this action is right or wrong is completely different from saying whether this person is Muslim or not. Calling a Muslim kaffir is a very serious matter that may lead us to extreme punishment. Or even saying Muslims don't rightly follow the religion is different from saying they are not Muslims. I hope this thing is clear.

 

[Katzpur]

Bismillah-hir-Rehman-ir-Rahim (In the name of Allah, most gracious, most merciful)
Please post your questions or misconceptions you have about Islam. I will Inshallah (which means hopefully) try to clarify. You can also try to prove to me a single thing in Islam which is bad. A single thing. I am just asking for one.

I'm sure I have more than a few misconceptions about Islam. For the most part, however, I admire its adherents and their commitment to the tenets of their faith. The only thing I see as "bad" (not that that would have been my choice of words) is that it fails to recognize Jesus Christ as the Only Begotten Son of God. I'm not going to try to prove anything to you, though. It would be a waste of my time and yours.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Where is S.Z Muslim? He is leaving his work to Mujahid Mohammed.

 

[Autodidact]

To say this action is right or wrong is completely different from saying whether this person is Muslim or not. Calling a Muslim kaffir is a very serious matter that may lead us to extreme punishment. Or even saying Muslims don't rightly follow the religion is different from saying they are not Muslims. I hope this thing is clear.

Well that's interesting because in this thread Mujahid said that all the people who do bad things in the name of Islam are not true Muslims. Now you are saying that it was unIslamic for Mujahid to say that?

Who decides whether a given Muslim, who is committing an given act in the name of Islam, is correctly following Islam?

 

[Autodidact]

I'm sure I have more than a few misconceptions about Islam. For the most part, however, I admire its adherents and their commitment to the tenets of their faith. The only thing I see as "bad" (not that that would have been my choice of words) is that it fails to recognize Jesus Christ as the Only Begotten Son of God. I'm not going to try to prove anything to you, though. It would be a waste of my time and yours.

So the whole suicide bombing thing doesn't bother you then?

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

Well that's interesting because in this thread Mujahid said that all the people who do bad things in the name of Islam are not true Muslims. Now you are saying that it was unIslamic for Mujahid to say that?

Who decides whether a given Muslim, who is committing an given act in the name of Islam, is correctly following Islam?

Well, basically actions that are prohibited by Quran, Sunnah and Hadith are ones which if a muslim follows, he is not a true muslim. However, we can simply not call any muslim a wrong-doer. Imagine, if a muslim kills an innocent person everyone including muslims blame him. Little does anyone know, that the murder had been planned by another party who had this man's little children and were threatining to kill them, unless he murders that man. So, here though the man would be at fault but the main cause is that party, not the man. Therefore, we can call a muslim to not to be true muslim, only if we have sufficient proof.

 

[Katzpur]

So the whole suicide bombing thing doesn't bother you then?

Is that what you really think?

Unlike you, Autodidact, I don't judge an a half billion individuals by the actions of a few hundred.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Katzpur,

To be fair, Autodidact's criticism was aimed at the ideology of Islam, not at "a half billion individuals" who follow that ideology. The "actions of a few hundred" suicide bombers, as well as the alarming support for those actions among Muslims, certainly speaks to the dangers of following the ravings of an ancient, superstitious, conquest-bent fanatical tribe.

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

Katzpur,

To be fair, Autodidact's criticism was aimed at the ideology of Islam, not at "a half billion individuals" who follow that ideology. The "actions of a few hundred" suicide bombers, as well as the alarming support for those actions among Muslims, certainly speaks to the dangers of following the ravings of an ancient, superstitious, conquest-bent fanatical tribe.

For all we know, some of these suicide bombers may have their families captured. Some may have done it in ignorance (delivering a briefcase etc.). I can only comment if I have proof against them, when I have heard their side of the story as well.

 

[Sahar]

The only thing I see as "bad" (not that that would have been my choice of words) is that it fails to recognize Jesus Christ as the Only Begotten Son of God. I'm not going to try to prove anything to you, though. It would be a waste of my time and yours.

Why should this be seen as bad? If Islam recognized Jesus as the begotten son of God, then why doesn't Islam be another denomination under Christianity? Our different beliefs and dogmas are what make Islam a distinct religion from Christianity and I don't really understand why this should be bad!!

 

[Sahar]

Where is S.Z Muslim? He is leaving his work to Mujahid Mohammed.

Hahaha...I found he started a similar thread with the exact same title before but his fellow Muslims did most of the work but if I were him, I would do the same...hahaha...

Well that's interesting because in this thread Mujahid said that all the people who do bad things in the name of Islam are not true Muslims. Now you are saying that it was unIslamic for Mujahid to say that?

I say a lot we Muslims ignored the teachings of our religion as a general statement and it's true that we suffer from weakness of faith (as a general statement too ) and this doesn't mean we are not Muslims anymore i.e. we are kuffar or something like this (God forbid). Anyone said (believed) there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is a messenger of God is Muslim.

Who decides whether a given Muslim, who is committing an given act in the name of Islam, is correctly following Islam?

The Qur'an and the Sunnah of the prophet already decided. Also when it comes to shedding blood of innocent people and harming them, here we are not still in the stage of figuring out whether they are correctly following Islam or not but such criminals should be fought and stopped immediately.

 

[kai]

this could take all day but i see no answers to Ymirgfs post which leads me to beleive this will be another whitewash , so keeping it simple .
Islam is based on a medievil book and culture of the arabs. and one arab in particular Mohamed pbuh and cannot by its very nature change or adapt. so thats bad