What do you feel is wrong with Islam?

[TashaN]

Each individual suicide bomber is the tip of a very big iceberg of recruiters, trainers, and funders, as well as an entire culture of adulation and respect. Here is a link.

[32] On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our Messengers with Clear Signs, Yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (Quran 5:32)

In addition, this culture specifically exploits Islamic beliefs about paradise to persuade these young men to become suicide bombers.

Over 1,500 Extremists Freed After Repenting
26-12-07

​

Arab News

RIYADH, 26 November 2007 - Saudi authorities have released more than 1,500 reformed extremists, who were detained on charges of embracing and spreading takfeer (the ideology that brands other Muslims who disagree with them as infidels).

The extremists, under the guidance of the Ministry of Interior, had undergone lengthy counseling, according to Muhammad Al-Nujaimi, a member of the Counseling Committee and professor of comparative jurisprudence at the King Fahd Security College.

Al-Nujaimi told Al-Watan newspaper that the Counseling Committee, which is the brainchild of Prince Muhammad ibn Naif, assistant minister of interior for security affairs, was established in 2004 with the approval of Interior Minister Prince Naif. The Ministry of Interior and the Ministry of Islamic Affairs, Endowments, Call and Guidance jointly supervise activities of the committee comprising 100 members. Members include religious scholars, preachers, specialists in religious doctrine and law, psychologists and social workers.

The committee is tasked with the duty of reforming youths in an intellectual and rational manner on the basis of Shariah. "The committee has met around 5,000 times to offer counseling to 3,200 people, who were accused of embracing the takfeer ideology. The committee has successfully completed reforming 1,500 people," Al-Nujaimi said.

The suspects were largely confused about the meaning of jihad, which led to their believing in committing blind violence. They also viewed that the present Muslim rulers, scholars and public were infidels, and therefore demanded the establishment of a single Islamic state, said Al-Nujaimi.

"After several graded sessions with the committee, and having been convinced of their misguided vision, they renounced their erroneous ideologies, including the concept of driving out all infidels from the Arabian Peninsula," he said.

The committee first evaluates the personality and the ideological crisis suffered by the suspect, and then decides on how to clean his mind of the mistaken impressions, said Al-Nujaimi.

The committee in the later stages of counseling holds several sessions on the concept of obedience to a ruler, loyalty, conditions for baiat (declaration of allegiance to a ruler) and the mistaken concept of murder and violence without guilt.

||SalafiManhaj.com||

What there is not is an international Islamic outcry or fatwah against the practice.

This is the only thing which you don't know how to google?

Give it a shot please!

 

[TashaN]

I don't really understand, women have been always humans and always had their rights (and duties) just like men in Islam not only in the 21st century. The core of Islam's message is about human and all the creatures rights (and justice).

Hey not4me, how you dare talk in here, you are an opressed woman and i won't ever forgive you if you tried to write in here again. This place is only for men like me ha ha ha. You are an opressed woman! You got that?! Be carful!

Come on, not4me, don't be harsh, those people KNOW that i brainwashed you, me and the other males in your family so you can no longer feel the opression imposed upon you! They just feel pity for you, believe me. Relax!

Absolutely, without any doubt....for a fundamentalist like me, I am trying to count how many Christians I have killed especially after I knew they are not Ahlul Dhimma any more and they are considered equal citizens with their Muslim counterparts....let me see 0? 0000???
God!!!!!

Hmmm, yeah, you think we should start with the guys in RF?

I have a 1000 Dhimmi in my record, what about you?

Do you think we should make a poll for that so the other muslims in here show how many they have wiped out?

 

[K.Venugopal]

[32] On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our Messengers with Clear Signs, Yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (Quran 5:32)

Can you please clarify who Allah means when He says "Children of Israel"?

 

[Peace]

Can you please clarify who Allah means when He says "Children of Israel"?

They are Banu Israel (the Jews).

 

[Peace]

Hey not4me, how you dare talk in here, you are an opressed woman and i won't ever forgive you if you tried to write in here again. This place is only for men like me ha ha ha. You are an opressed woman! You got that?! Be carful!

Oh come on brother let us express our opinions here in RF and don't use your power to oppress us and shut our mouths. LOL

They think we are oppressed and trying to deceive others that we are not, that's really funny .
If only they know that Islam has given us all our rights to lead a decent honored life.

Peace

 

[K.Venugopal]

They are Banu Israel (the Jews).

[32] On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our Messengers with Clear Signs, Yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (Quran 5:32)

This verse appears to imply that Allah has restricted the ordination to the Jews, because Allah next says "...if anyone slew a person", which person could be a non-Jew and therefore a Muslim ... if any Jew slew a Muslim, it is as if he slew the whole people (Muslim people?) etc. This appears to be more so because Allah further says ... many of them continued excesses... Excesses against whom? Please clarify.

 

[Sahar]

Hmmm, yeah, you think we should start with the guys in RF?

To jihad, folks!!

Sheikh Abu Khalid, can we add some spices? you know some suicide bombings that are very important part of the ideology of Islam and don't forget the concept of Paradise and everything......you know...

 

[kai]

I don't really understand, women have been always humans and always had their rights (and duties) just like men in Islam not only in the 21st century. The core of Islam's message is about human and all the creatures rights (and justice).
Of course I am right.
Absolutely, without any doubt....for a fundamentalist like me, I am trying to count how many Christians I have killed especially after I knew they are not Ahlul Dhimma any more and they are considered equal citizens with their Muslim counterparts....let me see 0? 0000???
God!!!!!

well am i right or wrong? its quite simple try not to make a joke out of it

 

[kai]

ABU khalid you remind me of an old sparring partner of mine called The Truth have you heard of this rascal and is he still on rf

you have already answered my question, i am glad you are still here my debating skills will need sharpening and my sources will need much scrutiny

 

[Popeyesays]

Can't this weak and dishonest argument be stopped? Any thing needs a permission to be built even mosques. How about building a mosque in France or any non Muslim countries?
And what's the story of the so called dhimmitude? If you live 2008 then you should have know that there is nothing nothing called Ahlul-dhimma whether theoretically or practically.

Churches are present everywhere in a country like Egypt and many others and new ones are being built and no one can deny this.

Okay, let's talk about people:

An Egyptian citizen goes to get his new identity card. He is Baha`i and the government will not issue him an identity card because he will not list Islam, Christianity or Judaism as his religion. Now that citizen cannot get a bank account, cannot work or obtain a driver's license, nor can he get birth certificates for his children, get married legally, nor get a passport to leave Egypt.

Simple truth . . . . . . .

Regards,
Scott

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Well, I didn't notice this thread before...Please let me in!
I will just start from where you guys ended (won't read the whole thread!)

ABU khalid you remind me of an old sparring partner of mine called The Truth have you heard of this rascal and is he still on rf

you have already answered my question, i am glad you are still here my debating skills will need sharpening and my sources will need much scrutiny

Well, The Truth is actually Abu Khalid!

Okay, let's talk about people:

An Egyptian citizen goes to get his new identity card. He is Baha`i and the government will not issue him an identity card because he will not list Islam, Christianity or Judaism as his religion. Now that citizen cannot get a bank account, cannot work or obtain a driver's license, nor can he get birth certificates for his children, get married legally, nor get a passport to leave Egypt.

Simple truth . . . . . . .

Regards,
Scott

Hi Scott

Well, the Egyptian Bahai' issue isn't islam's fault...It's all politics, and you know it..

I don't agree with what the government did...There should have been a religion title "Other", beside "Muslim", "Christian" or "Jews"..
But it's not the issue in this debate I guess

 

[Autodidact]

Oh come on brother let us express our opinions here in RF and don't use your power to oppress us and shut our mouths. LOL

They think we are oppressed and trying to deceive others that we are not, that's really funny .
If only they know that Islam has given us all our rights to lead a decent honored life.

Peace

Ha ha, women's rights under Islam, that's hilarious! Like Saudi Arabia, where a woman can only testify as to events that take place out of the sight of men, where women who fail to wear an Abaya

will be fined or caned by special police, are not allowed to drive, and cannot leave their homes without the permission or accompaniment of a male relative. That is so funny. When rape victims are punished for being alone with a man, that just cracks me up. And the whole idea of women being able to vote! Ha ha! That's a good one!

Like in Iran, where rape goes unpunished, but rape victims can be executed for having had inappropriate sexual relations?

And that whole honor killing thing, that's good for a laugh.

Let us see what the Quran says about women. It says “men have a degree (of advantage) over them” 2:228 ; that the witness of woman is worth half of that of man 2:282; that women inherit half of their male siblings, 4:11-12; that a man can marry two or three or four women 4:3; that if a women becomes captive in a war, her Muslim master is allowed to rape her 33:50; that if a woman is not totally submissive to her husband she will enter Hell 66:10; that women are “tilth” for their husbands (to cultivate them) 2:223; that men are in charge of women, as if women were imbeciles or minors who could not take care of themselves; that they must be obedient to their husbands or be admonished (verbally abused), banished from the bed (psychologically abused) and beaten (physically abused) 4:34.

There is no Middle Eastern Muslim country in which women have equal status to men. Ha ha ha.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Ha ha, women's rights under Islam, that's hilarious! Like Saudi Arabia, where a woman can only testify as to events that take place out of the sight of men, where women who fail to wear an Abaya

will be fined or caned by special police, are not allowed to drive, and cannot leave their homes without the permission or accompaniment of a male relative. That is so funny. When rape victims are punished for being alone with a man, that just cracks me up. And the whole idea of women being able to vote! Ha ha! That's a good one!

Like in Iran, where rape goes unpunished, but rape victims can be executed for having had inappropriate sexual relations?

And that whole honor killing thing, that's good for a laugh.

Again, not Islam's fault...and you are ignoring that..

In Egypt, women can become presidents...

In the Caliphs era, women were ministers, and consultants..

The prophet ordered the muslims to learn from his wife after his death...And she kept teaching all the muslims (men and women) until she died..

Every single stage of the prophet's life was influenced by a woman...and women played a very improtant role in the islamic history..

Women worked as nurses for the muslim army, they even fought sometimes, and no one prevented them..


Of course you are ignoring all that and talking about the driving lisence!

 

[Autodidact]

Again, not Islam's fault...and you are ignoring that..

Again, all the bad things done by Muslims and Islamic countries in the name of Islam are not Islam's fault. All the people and government doing these things, who say they are Muslim and imposing Islamic law, are in fact not real Muslims, and are all wrong. But for a Muslim to say that another Muslim is not Islamic is itself unIslamic. I say again: Your "real" Islam, the one that doesn't actually exist, the one where women have equal rights, and apostates are not subject to the death penatly, and gay people have legal rights, and fathers don't kill their daughters for dressing wrong or being in the wrong place--I don't have a problem with that Islam. Too bad it doesn't exist. Meanwhile, back in reality, the "false" Islam, the one that actually exists in the actual world--these are some of the problems I have with it. The oppression of women. The suppression of individual liberty, including denial of freedom of religion. The oppression of gay people. The terrorism, suicide bombing, and ridiculous violence, such as rioting and killing innocent people because a newspaper in another country published a cartoon you didn't like, or jailing a teacher because her student gave his teddy bear the wrong name. I have a big problem with this "false" Islam. Funny thing is, the false one is the only one that exists. So I guess my biggest problem with the "real" Islam is that it allows "false" Islam to exist--and use its name.

Of course you are ignoring all that and talking about the driving lisence!

Yeah, that driver's license thing. Also the right to walk out your front door, to go where you want when you want, to function as a human being in society, to receive an education and get paid, to have custody of your children, to vote, serve on juries, testify in court, and wear what you damn well please. Those are the just a few of the issues that I have with Islam--except that for some reason it's not Islam's fault that Islam denies these rights to women in Islamic countries. I'll just take a wild guess that you enjoy all these rights, am I right?

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Actually, the examples I just gave were from the real Islam, and the ones you gave were from the false one...Thats simple!

 

[England my lionheart]

Well, basically actions that are prohibited by Quran, Sunnah and Hadith are ones which if a muslim follows, he is not a true muslim. However, we can simply not call any muslim a wrong-doer. Imagine, if a muslim kills an innocent person everyone including muslims blame him. Little does anyone know, that the murder had been planned by another party who had this man's little children and were threatining to kill them, unless he murders that man. So, here though the man would be at fault but the main cause is that party, not the man. Therefore, we can call a muslim to not to be true muslim, only if we have sufficient proof.

So does this mean that the suicide bombers are not at fault but the main party(islam)is?

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Yeah, that driver's license thing. Also the right to walk out your front door, to go where you want when you want, to function as a human being in society, to receive an education and get paid, to have custody of your children, to vote, serve on juries, testify in court, and wear what you damn well please.

Wow...all those stuff are basics in Islam!...You are talking about another religion for sure!

It's just in KSA, that the driving license is an issue.

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

So does this mean that the suicide bombers are not at fault but the main party(islam)is?

Why has Islam kidnapped their kids? lol......

 

[Autodidact]

Actually, the examples I just gave were from the real Islam, and the ones you gave were from the false one...Thats simple!

Yes, I understand. The religion practiced in Saudi Arabia is not Islam. What do you call it? They call it Islam. I don't know, maybe that has something to do with worshipping Allah, accepting Muhammed as his prophet, praying 5 times a day, going to mosque and making Hajj; I'm just guessing. Women in Saudi Arabia cannot so much as leave their house without a male relative's permission or company. I assume that you can walk out your front door when you want and go where you want; you're not a prisoner in your own home.

And Iran, which had an Islamic revolution--that's not Islam they practice there either? I assume you're part of the worldwide movement to liberate the women of Iran from these horrible practices perpetrated in the name of Islam? Because the women of Iran can't--it's illegal. If they try, they get jailed or stoned.

Maybe you can define the word "Islam" for us?

As I said, I don't have much of a problem with "real" Islam, except that it doesn't exist. I have a lot of problems with "false" Islam. Too bad the false one is the only one that exists in the real world.

 

[Autodidact]

Wow...all those stuff are basics in Islam!...You are talking about another religion for sure!

It's just in KSA, that the driving license is an issue.

So what religion do they practice in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan and so forth?