What do you feel is wrong with Islam?

[Autodidact]

btw, when theists insult atheists, as they do all the time, why do you think we don't riot in the streets, burn down their embassies, and beat them to death? Is there maybe some what in which atheists are better than Muslims?

 

[Popeyesays]

Well, I didn't notice this thread before...Please let me in!
I will just start from where you guys ended (won't read the whole thread!)


Well, The Truth is actually Abu Khalid!


Hi Scott

Well, the Egyptian Bahai' issue isn't islam's fault...It's all politics, and you know it..

I don't agree with what the government did...There should have been a religion title "Other", beside "Muslim", "Christian" or "Jews"..
But it's not the issue in this debate I guess

The courts of law of Egypt were ready to allow it. It was the ecclesiastical court which made the decision, and the ecclesiastical court overruled the civil court.

So, yes it was a bad decision based on religious propriety as the ecclesiastical court defined it.

So, those Egyptian Bahais are denied civil rights and identity itself for religious reasons.



Regards,
Scott

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

O.K., how does this change anything? You can't marry a woman who is already married (duh) unless you own her. Great religion you got there.

Did you check verse 19 which clearly tells that muslims are not allowed to marry women against their will. So, if a person wants to marry a slave only with her consent he can marry. As to other married women, with or without consent he cannot marry.

 

[Autodidact]

Did you check verse 19 which clearly tells that muslims are not allowed to marry women against their will. So, if a person wants to marry a slave only with her consent he can marry. As to other married women, with or without consent he cannot marry.

So the whole slavery thing apparently doesn't bother you? Cool, because my house needs some major scrubbing. Where can I capture you? Thanks.

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

So the whole slavery thing apparently doesn't bother you? Cool, because my house needs some major scrubbing. Where can I capture you? Thanks.

I thought the talk was on women rights? How did it suddenly shift? Anyways, here is my comment on slavery, a post I made in some other forum:
"I think I read something about slavery. Well, slavery though is allowed in Islam, yet a person has many responsbilities to the slave. Few important ones are:
Masters could not abuse their slaves and had to give them the same that they ate and wore.
Narated by Al-Ma'rur: At Ar-Rabadha I met Abu Dhar who was wearing a cloak, and his slave, too, was wearing a similar one. I asked about the reason for it. He replied, "I abused a person by calling his mother with bad names." The Prophet said to me, 'O Abu Dhar! Did you abuse him by calling his mother with bad names you still have some characteristics of ignorance. Your slaves are your brothers and Allah has put them under your command. So whoever has a brother under his command should feed him of what he eats and dress him of what he wears. Do not ask them (slaves) to do things beyond their capacity (power) and if you do so, then help them.'" – [Bukhari, Vol.1, Book 2, #29]
In another narration the importance of giving slaves education and teaching them good manners is stressed by Prophet Muhammad(saw):
Narrated Abu Burda's father: Allah's Apostle said "Three persons will have a double reward:
1. A Person from the people of the scriptures who believed in his prophet (Jesus or Moses) and then believed in the Prophet Muhammad (i .e. has embraced Islam).
2. A slave who discharges his duties to Allah and his master.
3. A master of a woman-slave who teaches her good manners and educates her in the best possible way (the religion) and manumits her and then marries her." – [Bukhari Vol.1, Book 3, #97A]
Further in the Quran it is seen that people are encouraged to marry the slaves. If a person cannot marry a free woman for whatever reason, to prevent him from committing sin, the Quran asks them to marry from among the slave women.
If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess: And Allah hath full knowledge about your faith. Ye are one from another: Wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dowers, according to what is reasonable. – [Quran 4:25]
Islam never started slavery and it is well known that slavery was practiced much before the introduction of Islam. Islam actually laid down all the rules so that eventually slavery would be eliminated completely. There are many great rewards for freeing a slave. Allah(swt) has given man all the incentive to free slaves which would in return eventually eradicate slavery completely. Another narration goes as follows:
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Whoever frees a Muslim slave, Allah will save all the parts of his body from the (Hell) Fire as he has freed the body-parts of the slave." Said bin Marjana said that he narrated that Hadith to 'Ali bin Al-Husain and he freed his slave for whom 'Abdullah bin Ja'far had offered him ten thousand Dirhams or one-thousand Dinars. – [Bukhari, Vol.3, Book 46, #693]"

 

[Autodidact]

Wiki:

Apostasy in Islam (Arabic: ارتداد, irtidād or ridda) is commonly defined as the rejection of Islam in word or deed by a person who has been a Muslim.
The five major Madh'hab (schools of Islamic jurisprudence) agree that a sane male apostate must be executed.[1] A female apostate may either be put to death according to some schools, imprisoned according to others, or exempt from punishment according to the Hanafi school.

Excuse me: Someone decides that Islam is not true (which I agree with) and so you kill them??!? And you want to know why I have a problem with Islam?

Say an atheist decided to convert to Islam, so therefore I think I should kill him? Does that sound right to you???

 

[namguy]

Bismillah-hir-Rehman-ir-Rahim (In the name of Allah, most gracious, most merciful)
Please post your questions or misconceptions you have about Islam. I will Inshallah (which means hopefully) try to clarify. You can also try to prove to me a single thing in Islam which is bad. A single thing. I am just asking for one.

I don't know anything about the religion, nor do I want to:sorry1:

 

[Autodidact]

I thought the talk was on women rights? How did it suddenly shift? Anyways, here is my comment on slavery, a post I made in some other forum:
"I think I read something about slavery. Well, slavery though is allowed in Islam, yet a person has many responsbilities to the slave. Few important ones are:
Masters could not abuse their slaves and had to give them the same that they ate and wore.
Narated by Al-Ma'rur: At Ar-Rabadha I met Abu Dhar who was wearing a cloak, and his slave, too, was wearing a similar one. I asked about the reason for it. He replied, "I abused a person by calling his mother with bad names." The Prophet said to me, 'O Abu Dhar! Did you abuse him by calling his mother with bad names you still have some characteristics of ignorance. Your slaves are your brothers and Allah has put them under your command. So whoever has a brother under his command should feed him of what he eats and dress him of what he wears. Do not ask them (slaves) to do things beyond their capacity (power) and if you do so, then help them.'" – [Bukhari, Vol.1, Book 2, #29]
In another narration the importance of giving slaves education and teaching them good manners is stressed by Prophet Muhammad(saw):
Narrated Abu Burda's father: Allah's Apostle said "Three persons will have a double reward:
1. A Person from the people of the scriptures who believed in his prophet (Jesus or Moses) and then believed in the Prophet Muhammad (i .e. has embraced Islam).
2. A slave who discharges his duties to Allah and his master.
3. A master of a woman-slave who teaches her good manners and educates her in the best possible way (the religion) and manumits her and then marries her." – [Bukhari Vol.1, Book 3, #97A]
Further in the Quran it is seen that people are encouraged to marry the slaves. If a person cannot marry a free woman for whatever reason, to prevent him from committing sin, the Quran asks them to marry from among the slave women.
If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess: And Allah hath full knowledge about your faith. Ye are one from another: Wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dowers, according to what is reasonable. – [Quran 4:25]
Islam never started slavery and it is well known that slavery was practiced much before the introduction of Islam. Islam actually laid down all the rules so that eventually slavery would be eliminated completely. There are many great rewards for freeing a slave. Allah(swt) has given man all the incentive to free slaves which would in return eventually eradicate slavery completely. Another narration goes as follows:
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Whoever frees a Muslim slave, Allah will save all the parts of his body from the (Hell) Fire as he has freed the body-parts of the slave." Said bin Marjana said that he narrated that Hadith to 'Ali bin Al-Husain and he freed his slave for whom 'Abdullah bin Ja'far had offered him ten thousand Dirhams or one-thousand Dinars. – [Bukhari, Vol.3, Book 46, #693]"

Sounds like Muslim slaves get one deal, but us poor kaffirs: it's shackles and stripes for us.

So, you're in favor of slavery under Islam? Great. So, as I said, my house is really dirty. Please let me know when you are willing to start work. If you have a brother, bring him too, for the yard.

Talk about a load of apologist baloney, justifying slavery. That's disgusting. If you wanted to convince me that Islam, True Islam, is a horrible, barbaric, primitive, religion, you succeeded.

 

[Autodidact]

And btw, MFaraz, could you spare us the long Qu'ranic quotes? They're really boring and hard to slog through. Just give us the gist: You think slavery is O.K., and so does the Qu'ran. I get it.

 

[Autodidact]

Did you check verse 19 which clearly tells that muslims are not allowed to marry women against their will. So, if a person wants to marry a slave only with her consent he can marry. As to other married women, with or without consent he cannot marry.

No it doesn't. It says you can't inherit women against their will. If you think marrying someone is the same as inheriting her, well, I'm glad I'm not married to you.
And of course, if they're flagrantly lewd, you can do as you please. They lose their right to self-determination then.

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

And btw, MFaraz, could you spare us the long Qu'ranic quotes? They're really boring and hard to slog through. Just give us the gist: You think slavery is O.K., and so does the Qu'ran. I get it.

Ok, so don't believe in the Quran. Who is forcing you? You quote verses out of context, change topics suddenly to serve your purpose and are not ready to accept any reason. It is a wastage of time really, seeing that you will always criticize no matter what.

Didn't you see, in Islam status of Slave is that of a BROTHER. He is not to be abused, fed what u eat, clothed with what you wear, provided with free education, set free for reward. If it is woman, marry her ( though with her consent) so as to raise her status.

Long Quranic verses, tiresome just because they prove you wrong?

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

No it doesn't. It says you can't inherit women against their will. If you think marrying someone is the same as inheriting her, well, I'm glad I'm not married to you.
And of course, if they're flagrantly lewd, you can do as you please. They lose their right to self-determination then.

It's a translation. Arabic text does not state inheriting.

 

[Autodidact]

Ok, so don't believe in the Quran. Who is forcing you? You quote verses out of context, change topics suddenly to serve your purpose and are not ready to accept any reason. It is a wastage of time really, seeing that you will always criticize no matter what.

I'm ready to accept any reason. Got any? Hey, the OP asked me what's wrong, so I'm saying what's wrong.

Didn't you see, in Islam status of Slave is that of a BROTHER. He is not to be abused, fed what u eat, clothed with what you wear, provided with free education, set free for reward. If it is woman, marry her ( though with her consent) so as to raise her status.

As I said, Great! How can we arrange for your enslavement?

Long Quranic verses, tiresome just because they prove you wrong?

I must have missed that part where you proved me wrong. You mean the Qu'ran actually prohibits slavery, and I just skimmed too fast? No, it's just that it's hard for me to slog through that kind of stuff. Do us a favor and cut back. Thanks.

 

[Autodidact]

It's a translation. Arabic text does not state inheriting.

I see, and you're a better translator than the professionals? Have you translated the whole thing? Where can I get a correct translation? Why would that idiot say "inherit" when the Arabic word is "marry?" They're not even similar? Can you provide an unbiased source for this? What kind of book uses the same word for "marry" and "inherit?" That's jacked up.

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

I'm ready to accept any reason. Got any? Hey, the OP asked me what's wrong, so I'm saying what's wrong.

As I said, Great! How can we arrange for your enslavement?

I must have missed that part where you proved me wrong. You mean the Qu'ran actually prohibits slavery, and I just skimmed too fast? No, it's just that it's hard for me to slog through that kind of stuff. Do us a favor and cut back. Thanks.

You quoted verses out of context. Like verse 4:24. U mentioned it and indicated that it means muslims can marry slave women freely, and there is no restriction on this. But there is, as slave women can be married only with her consent.
Why do you want to enslave me? Any special reasons? Islam does encourage people to free slaves as was clear from my previous, much detailed post.

 

[England my lionheart]

And what religion was it when muslims contributed in science and technology for about 700 years?...and what was it when all other religions were living peacfuly also in the same era?

and what was it the religion that spread just by watching the ethics of muslims in the far eastern countries??

wasn't that islam too??

You are judging 100 years and ignoring the other 1300!!

How about the attempted invasion of Europe (battle of Poitiers 732 AD)was this peace or Spain and Portugal.

 

[Autodidact]

You quoted verses out of context. Like verse 4:24. U mentioned it and indicated that it means muslims can marry slave women freely, and there is no restriction on this. But there is, as slave women can be married only with her consent.

Read my post. I didn't indicate anything. I just quoted the verse.

Why do you want to enslave me? Any special reasons? Islam does encourage people to free slaves as was clear from my previous, much detailed post.

Are you kidding? You should see my floors! And my windows! A slave would be most handy. Since I'm not Muslim, I won't worry about the freeing part. I'm so glad you think slavery is a good thing. How are you at painting?

 

[Autodidact]

In fact, I think this is a good general principle. If you're in favor of modesty, wear a hijab. If you think men and women should be kept apart, then stay home, so women can go about freely. And if you approve of slavery, then you should be a slave. I think this principle will lead to great peace and equality. I think it's called the Golden Rule. Does Islam have it?

 

[Sahar]

Where do you live?
What religion do they practice in Saudi Arabia? Pakistan? Iran? Afghanistan?

In previous 2 posts, I tried to explain that there is a difference between takfeer a Muslim and say Muslims ignored this and that teaching. Now there are Muslims who kill, steal, rape, gamble, drink alcohol, beat women, mistreat their parents, their chlidren, now can I say those are not Muslims? No. Can I say this Muslim who raped disobeyed Allah's order? Yes. Can I say the one who killed, disobeyed Allah's order? Yes......is this too hard to understand? A Muslim doesn't mean a perfect human being who doesn't make mistakes, all of us make mistakes and the best of us who fix these mistakes but not every Muslim make a mistake and ignore a teaching of Islam is a kafir and not every Muslim who commit a crime is kafir but he/she will take the kind of penalty he/she deserves.
All over the world there are Muslims who try their best to adhere to the Islamic teachings and there are other Muslims who don't even care but I'll still call them Muslims.
There are real problems in Saudi Arabia regarding the issue of freedom in general and some issues regarding women and I don't imagine myself in a country where I can't drive a car for instance but I hope such problems will be fixed soon. I don't know what's the problem of Iranian women? What about Afghani women after the American conquest? In Pakistan, men and women need to be saved from the hard time that Pakistan lives now.
Just for your info, there are other "Muslim" countries other than the ones you mentioned but unfortunately I can't call any of them "Islamic".

I live in Cairo, Egypt.

 

[Popeyesays]

The burka is not Islamic las--it is a custom older than the Qur'an.

Inheriting wives is not in the Quran. It was a custom older than the Qur'an.

Regards,
Scott