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What do you feel is wrong with Islam?

Bismillah-hir-Rehman-ir-Rahim (In the name of Allah, most gracious, most merciful)
Please post your questions or misconceptions you have about Islam. I will Inshallah (which means hopefully) try to clarify. You can also try to prove to me a single thing in Islam which is bad. A single thing. I am just asking for one.

Sorry, I haven’t read the whole thread but here is my two cents. Correct me if I’m wrong…

John 8
23 But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins."

1 Corinthians 15
12But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.

It is my understanding that Mohamed regarded Jesus as a prophet of God, not God in the flesh; therefore I believe that Christianity and Islam are mutually exclusive. (I have known some very pleasant Muslims and some very nasty “Christians,” but) I believe that Jesus is God and that Mohamed was not his prophet.

I don’t know of anything wrong with the Qur’an other than that it leads people away from (my perception of) salvation.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Sorry, I haven’t read the whole thread but here is my two cents. Correct me if I’m wrong…

It is my understanding that Mohamed regarded Jesus as a prophet of God, not God in the flesh; therefore I believe that Christianity and Islam are mutually exclusive. (I have known some very pleasant Muslims and some very nasty “Christians,” but) I believe that Jesus is God and that Mohamed was not his prophet.
I agree, but I do not expect the Muslims on RF to embrace your thinking on this point.

I don’t know of anything wrong with the Qur’an other than that it leads people away from (my perception of) salvation.
I like the way you have phrased this. It is YOUR perception, and to me, that is a very important point that many fail to include in their posts. I just wish Muslims had the humility to state that it is their personal opinion that the "Noble" Qur'an is the word of god. Rather, they usually simply say it in no uncertain terms that the reader is simply meant to accept. In theory, coming from them, it is proof of God in and of itself, even if other respectfully (and not so respectfully) disagree.

islam isnt bad, neither are any religions, its just when bad people take things too far and offend others
I see. Well, that settles it, doesn't it? Do you feel there is nothing at all wrong with the "religion" of David Koresh, Jim Jones, Charles Manson, Fred Phelps... etc... ad nausium...
 

EiNsTeiN

Boo-h!
Sorry, I haven’t read the whole thread but here is my two cents. Correct me if I’m wrong…

John 8
23 But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins."

1 Corinthians 15
12But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.

It is my understanding that Mohamed regarded Jesus as a prophet of God, not God in the flesh; therefore I believe that Christianity and Islam are mutually exclusive. (I have known some very pleasant Muslims and some very nasty “Christians,” but) I believe that Jesus is God and that Mohamed was not his prophet.

I don’t know of anything wrong with the Qur’an other than that it leads people away from (my perception of) salvation.
Very nice post that directly adress the question above!..
Thanks!

YmirGF said:
That begs the VERY simple question notEiNsteiN and the question is this. IF indeed Muslim's in general no longer practice Islam as it was "brought down" then why on Earth would any thinking person listen to Muslim's extolling the virtues of Islam? If you are correct, and I believe you are, then why would anyone in their right mind "revert" to Islam, a religion that is no longer practised as it should be practiced?
Cause when he revert he can parctice it as it was brought down!
I didnt say all muslims are bad, and all muslims are not following Islam..

And what you say means you judge Islam by the acts of muslims.
Well, thats the issue I'm talking about...The Islam being not practiced correctly, doesn't deny the fact that Islam is still there...

As I mentioned before, heaven and hell are also there for muslims!...to those who either follow islam as it was brought down, and to those who mutated islam so that to follow their own desires, passions, needs, etc..

You are an atheist, so it would have been more logical if you adressed your problems to monothiesm concept, or what so ever that is related to our beliefs, not acts..

YmirGF said:
I like the way you have phrased this. It is YOUR perception, and to me, that is a very important point that many fail to include in their posts. I just wish Muslims had the humility to state that it is their personal opinion that the "Noble" Qur'an is the word of god
Well, yeah, it's our personal opinion, or personal beliefs ..
So what?!...Every one believes in whatever he likes, and people should argue him for that...But instead, you are just judging acts, which is not fair, cuz acts usually are under the influence of too many factors..And I claim religion could be of the least effect sometimes!
 

kai

ragamuffin
oh woe is me nothing changes , the wheel on the bus goes round and round ,lets get things straight

there is no country in the world that is truely islamic
what they do in saudi is down to the saudis the same with iran
women are not oppressed
there is no homosexuality in true Islam
bombers,jihadis etc etc are nothing to do with Islam
Islam was spread by trully peacefull means throughout the world with no compulsion
there is no dhimmitude
muslims are only allowed to fight in self defence
there scientific facts in the quran that proves its true

now try and argue against the absolute beleif that these fact are correct,
and if i have missed anything out i am trully sorry , and i am now going off to annoy some christians about the actual religion of jesus (which was Islam by the way)
 

Peace

Quran & Sunnah
I just wish Muslims had the humility to state that it is their personal opinion that the "Noble" Qur'an is the word of god.

We are not stating our opinion because too simply it is the truth. Whether you believe it or not the Quran is the word of God. Do you want us to lie in order to please you? that's just impossible and never will happen.
 

EiNsTeiN

Boo-h!
oh woe is me nothing changes , the wheel on the bus goes round and round ,lets get things straight

there is no country in the world that is truely islamic
what they do in saudi is down to the saudis the same with iran
women are not oppressed
there is no homosexuality in true Islam
bombers,jihadis etc etc are nothing to do with Islam
Islam was spread by trully peacefull means throughout the world with no compulsion
there is no dhimmitude
muslims are only allowed to fight in self defence
there scientific facts in the quran that proves its true

now try and argue against the absolute beleif that these fact are correct,
and if i have missed anything out i am trully sorry , and i am now going off to annoy some christians about the actual religion of jesus (which was Islam by the way)
Didn't get your point!
Well, these are indeed correct facts...wanna argue?!
 

Panda

42?
Premium Member
We are not stating our opinion because too simply it is the truth. Whether you believe it or not the Quran is the word of God. Do you want us to lie in order to please you? that's just impossible and never will happen.

How disgustingly arrogant of you. It is attitudes like this that cause problems and wars.
 

kai

ragamuffin
Didn't get your point!
Well, these are indeed correct facts...wanna argue?!
i already have thats the answers, been there got the t shirt thats the only answers you will get you can go all round the mulbeery bushes if you like but thats the response you are going to get from a muslim,(argue about what just for curiosity)
 

Panda

42?
Premium Member
Didn't get your point!
Well, these are indeed correct facts...wanna argue?!

Yes.
For a start of course you get homosexual Muslims and if you think there are none then you are only deceiving yourself.
Woman are oppressed, if woman are not free to do everything a man can then they are oppressed.
Of course Islam was not spread through peaceful means only. I don't think any religions apart from maybe Buddhism can claim that.
Lastly there are no such thing as scientific facts in the Quaran. You are only seeing what you want to see.
 

kai

ragamuffin
Yes.
For a start of course you get homosexual Muslims and if you think there are none then you are only deceiving yourself.
Woman are oppressed, if woman are not free to do everything a man can then they are oppressed.
Of course Islam was not spread through peaceful means only. I don't think any religions apart from maybe Buddhism can claim that.
Lastly there are no such thing as scientific facts in the Quaran. You are only seeing what you want to see.


no sorry mate if they are homosexual they are not true muslims
no its all for their own safety look at the rape statistics in the west
yea indeed the religion of peace was taken up by the millions
yes their is "chewed lumps" and mountains have pegs (all in there)
 

Panda

42?
Premium Member
no sorry mate if they are homosexual they are not true muslims
no its all for their own safety look at the rape statistics in the west
yea indeed the religion of peace was taken up by the millions
yes their is "chewed lumps" and mountains have pegs (all in there)

Oh of course how silly of me.
 
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Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
We are not stating our opinion because too simply it is the truth. Whether you believe it or not the Quran is the word of God. Do you want us to lie in order to please you? that's just impossible and never will happen.

Bingo! If you want me to point to the one thing I most object to about Islam, this is it.

No, Einstein, I want you to acknowledge that you are no smarter than the rest of us, and no more likely to be right than the rest of us, so, like the rest of us humans, just stating your opinion.

If you want to assert as fact that the Qu'ran is the word of God, then it now incumbent on you to demonstrate and support with evidence and logic that:
-There is a God.
-That God is Allah.
-Allah dictated the Qu'ran.

Go for it. The onus is on you.
 
As a convinced non believer this link follows my belief in what is wrong with Islam.
In The Name Of Allah - Introduction To Islam

Short excerpt:

On many occasions, TV screens show the hate-filled and contorted faces of 'Muslim' fundamentalists and their supporters screaming for Jihad(Holy War) and death and destruction not only for theUSAbut also for all Christians, Jews, Buddhists and Hindus, to name just a few.

'Muslims' are the only 'religious' group who demonstrate their anger and hate for all none believers by carrying their holy book, the Quran, in one hand, and guns, grenades or swords with the other.


These manifestations are only the symptoms of a disease. To cure or combat the disease, one must find its source, its characteristics and its evolution. To comprehend - not to excuse - the reasons for such insane and irrational behaviour, and such intense hatred, one has to learn and understand the background of the people concerned: their core beliefs; their understanding of their theology and their history.


In the last twenty years, Islamic fundamentalism has grown enormously more powerful. It has spread its tentacles and terrorist cells not only to none Muslim countries, but has also become a serious threat to the stability and freedoms of many Muslim states from Algeria to Uzbekistan.


They have methodically and insidiously used the mosques and the religious education of their children to spread their 'cult' of hate. Already there are several 'Muslim' states controlled by despotic theocracies such as Iran, Sudan and Afghanistan to name but a few. Human rights and freedoms in these countries have no existence or relevance, since the 'religious' rulers have arrogated to themselves the sole right to act 'In The Name of ALLAH'.

Do not think because I believe this way I do not realize that there are millions upon millions of good hearted simple Muslims in world. I just believe they have been seriously misled and have no way out because Islam does not allow it.
 

Sahar

Well-Known Member
I agree, it would indeed be fallacious to criticize the ideology of half a billion people based on the ideology of a few hundred. But that's not an accurate characterization of the point I was making, which was:

The "actions of a few hundred" suicide bombers, as well as the alarming support for those actions among Muslims, certainly speaks to the dangers of following the ravings of an ancient, superstitious, conquest-bent fanatical tribe.

You ask: 'If they are the same ideology then why don't we have half a billion suicide bombers?' That's like asking why only 10% of people taking the same drug get the side effect of headaches. Or, you could ask why not all white supremacists engage in terrorist acts. Nevertheless, white supremacy is an ideology that is unnecessary (being baseless in fact) and dangerous (with its call for whites to dominate other races).

Similarly, adulation for the Quran and the hadith (or the Bible, etc.) has predictable effects on the behavior of that sizable proportion of people who take each word deadly seriously.

Consider, as one of many many examples, the case of the Red Mosque siege in Pakistan--little girls eager to become martyrs for God. The fact that the contents of the Quran and hadith are significantly responsible for their behavior is made clear by a simple thought experiment: imagine if everything were exactly the same, except the text which formed the basis of the school's ideology was, say, The Humanist Manifesto and its Aspirations. Or if their #1 figurehead was Ghandi instead of Muhammad. And so on.

And then there is the even larger percentage of the population who wouldn't commit those acts themselves, but who nevertheless support them. I don't recall the percentage of Muslims in Great Britain, Turkey, Pakistan, etc. who think suicide bombing is "sometimes justified", but it is not encouraging.

All this is not to say that Islam is incompatible with tolerance, equality, separation of church and state, etc. That would indeed be an ignorant view, given the existence of many tolerant, reasonable Muslims. However, if we want to teach our children about tolerance, equality, separation of church and state, love and compassion, and so on, this could be accomplished without them memorizing one single line from the Quran or the hadith. On the other hand, any text which rants and raves about the depravity of nonbelievers, and the righteousness of the struggle against them and the everlasting fire which awaits them, is bound to inspire violence and intolerance.

Just compare the divinely-inspired, unalterable, superstitious list of insults and threats leveled at nonbelievers in Sura 2 VS. the clarity and sanity of the revisable Humanist Manifesto. Is it likely that any school for humanist little girls will end up like the Red Mosque? Will humanists like me ever be overwhelmed and frustrated by the number of terrorists--none of whom are "really" humanists--who make videos of themselves quoting the Humanist Manifesto, then go blow themselves up on a crowded bus?

I am not some bigot who thinks that you should be kicked off of an airplane simply for reciting the Quran. Of course, people should be free to believe whatever they want to believe, and practice whatever they want to practice. But in our conversational discourse, we ought not shrink from criticizing lines like:

As for him who disbelieveth, I shall leave him in contentment for a while, then I shall compel him to the doom of Fire - a hapless journey’s end! (Sura 2.126)

The disbelievers, they are the wrong-doers. (Sura 2.254)

Pardon us, absolve us and have mercy on us, Thou, our Protector, and give us victory over the disbelieving folk. (Sura 2.286)

...and many, many others; or, any ideology which holds lines such as these as especially instructive or illuminating, among all human literature in history.

Fair enough, but see above. ^
Nice!
- Based on what ideology do you explain the violence of some non Muslims?
- In the light of the ayaat you cited and what you said, how do you explain the violence of some Muslims towards their brothers and sisters in the religion and how is this based on the ideology of Islam?
- How do you reconcile this with the Islamic prohibition of murder and suicide and promising who commit those crimes with severe punishment?

As for him who disbelieveth, I shall leave him in contentment for a while, then I shall compel him to the doom of Fire - a hapless journey’s end! (Sura 2.126)

The disbelievers, they are the wrong-doers. (Sura 2.254)

Pardon us, absolve us and have mercy on us, Thou, our Protector, and give us victory over the disbelieving folk. (Sura 2.286)
So what?! The believers who are being oppressed and whose families are being killed and kicked out of their homes by the disbelievers, after all this, don't you want them to ask for the help of their God and for victory? I am sorry but I haven't seen any kind of thinking like this before.
About the ayaat of disbelief and hell fire; such Ayaat that establish an Islamic rule and reality that the punishment of disbelievers is not in this wordly life but in a life different from this one and the one who will judge them is their God (on a day of resurrection that you don't basically believe in) promotes violence? In other words, Islam establishes that it's not the job of the believers to judge the disbelievers but this is a thing between them and God, and then you tell me this promotes violence?
I ask again, if those verses about disbelief promote violence according to your claim, how do you explain the violence of some (FEW) Muslims including the suicide bombings against their brothers and sisters in faith?

However, if we want to teach our children about tolerance, equality, separation of church and state, love and compassion, and so on, this could be accomplished without them memorizing one single line from the Quran or the hadith.
Such conclusion leads me to ask; have you read/studied the entire Qur'an or the ahadeeth?
 

EiNsTeiN

Boo-h!
No, Einstein, I want you to acknowledge that you are no smarter than the rest of us, and no more likely to be right than the rest of us, so, like the rest of us humans, just stating your opinion.
I'm no smarter than you, nor more likely to be right than you..

I'm right in my percepective...

And although I'm 100% sure about my beliefs, and you are 100% sure about yours, non of us can claim s/he is the right one...And I do realize that fact..

It's all about perceptions

I discuss your beliefs, and you discuss mine, and thats how life goes!
I might change my mind about what you believe in, so might you..

But at least, even if non of us changed, we gotta respect everyone's right to believe in whatever s/he wants, as well as respecting his/her beliefes no matter how much I accept them..

Thats just the rule!
 

EiNsTeiN

Boo-h!
no sorry mate if they are homosexual they are not true muslims
no its all for their own safety look at the rape statistics in the west
yea indeed the religion of peace was taken up by the millions
yes their is "chewed lumps" and mountains have pegs (all in there)
Usually I dont respect sarcastic posts...sorry, won't reply those!

However, if we want to teach our children about tolerance, equality, separation of church and state, love and compassion, and so on, this could be accomplished without them memorizing one single line from the Quran or the hadith.
Thats weird, cuz we all learned the Quran and hadith, and memorized them, yet, we are not violent at all!

You're talking about 0.1% of the muslim world who missunderstood them!!
 
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