What do you feel is wrong with Islam?

[EiNsTeiN]

sarcastic me ? where? and i didnt expect a response

Ok, good you didnt!

 

[kai]

Ok, good you didnt!

unless you dissagree? but i see you have your hands full on this thread already.

 

[Popeyesays]

Well, slaughtering is the least painful method to kill animals..

If you noticed, alternative methods include hanging, electric shocking, and beating till death!

While in Islamic traditions, we have to cut all the viens in the neck in the same time so that to decrease the time in pain..
Plus this is an advenatge cuz the blood which flows out usually is the "bad" one (I'm weak in medical terminolgy..sorry!)
Otherwise, the blood will stop circulating in the body, which isn't that healthy for the meat I guess!

Stunning methods include bullets, electric shock and a two-had tool which smashes the forehead of the cow with a metal protuberance propelled by compressed air.


In typical slaughter houses in the U.S. the cow is stunned by some means (usually violent), but the stunning is to minimize the suffering (ostensibily).
With Kosher and Halal slaughtering the butcher is usually much kinder in attitude than are the employees of a slaughter house.

In the Baha`i Faith the animal is to be treated kindly always--even in slaughtering. The only meat we are forbidden to eat is the meat from an animal taken DEAD from a trap, since one cannot be sure if the meat is untainted.

Baha`i's are also permitted to hunt and eat the game, use the hide, etc..

I haven't hunted since before I became a Baha`i, before that I used to hunt upland game every fall and rabbits when it suited my mood.

Regards,
Scott

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Stunning methods include bullets, electric shock and a two-had tool which smashes the forehead of the cow with a metal protuberance propelled by compressed air.


In typical slaughter houses in the U.S. the cow is stunned by some means (usually violent), but the stunning is to minimize the suffering (ostensibily).
With Kosher and Halal slaughtering the butcher is usually much kinder in attitude than are the employees of a slaughter house.

In the Baha`i Faith the animal is to be treated kindly always--even in slaughtering. The only meat we are forbidden to eat is the meat from an animal taken DEAD from a trap, since one cannot be sure if the meat is untainted.

Baha`i's are also permitted to hunt and eat the game, use the hide, etc..

I haven't hunted since before I became a Baha`i, before that I used to hunt upland game every fall and rabbits when it suited my mood.

Regards,
Scott

Well, we too are ordered to treat animals kindely, even when slaughtering..
There is a hadith that says "When you slaughter, make it accurate and clean"
..Of course I'm horrible in translations, but I hope u just got the meaning

unless you dissagree? but i see you have your hands full on this thread already.

Ok, I might have missinterpreted your accent or so..

 

[kai]

well how about thinking all non muslims or Kaffur are Najis or unclean. is that true

 

[EiNsTeiN]

well how about thinking all non muslims or Kaffur are Najis or unclean. is that true

Well, it's not "unclean"..
We have a concept in Islam called, "Tahara", which I don't know a crossponding english term!

There is a difference between a taher person and a clean person..

For example, many people clean themselves by toillete papers after they pee...Well, this could be clean, but it's not tahara...To became taher, you need to clean yourself by "water"..

Either water or sand that makes you taher...

Excretion is considered a najasa which isn't eliminated unless using water or sand..

Najasa doesn't mean dirty, and Taher doesn't mean clean....

I hope I explained a little, and I wish any of the muslim fellows here to provide a more sufficient answer..

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

Stunning methods include bullets, electric shock and a two-had tool which smashes the forehead of the cow with a metal protuberance propelled by compressed air.


In typical slaughter houses in the U.S. the cow is stunned by some means (usually violent), but the stunning is to minimize the suffering (ostensibily).
With Kosher and Halal slaughtering the butcher is usually much kinder in attitude than are the employees of a slaughter house.

In the Baha`i Faith the animal is to be treated kindly always--even in slaughtering. The only meat we are forbidden to eat is the meat from an animal taken DEAD from a trap, since one cannot be sure if the meat is untainted.

Baha`i's are also permitted to hunt and eat the game, use the hide, etc..

I haven't hunted since before I became a Baha`i, before that I used to hunt upland game every fall and rabbits when it suited my mood.

Regards,
Scott

Well I think that hunting animals is allowed in Islam. However, there is a restriction that hunting should only be done for food, and that too when there are no alternatives. Hunting for fun ( needless slaughter) is not allowed.
Any muslim brothers, who think I am wrong? I actually read it somewhere but do not the authenticity of the source.

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

Well, it's not "unclean"..
We have a concept in Islam called, "Tahara", which I don't know a crossponding english term!

There is a difference between a taher person and a clean person..

For example, many people clean themselves by toillete papers after they pee...Well, this could be clean, but it's not tahara...To became taher, you need to clean yourself by "water"..

Either water or sand that makes you taher...

Excretion is considered a najasa which isn't eliminated unless using water or sand..

Najasa doesn't mean dirty, and Taher doesn't mean clean....

I hope I explained a little, and I wish any of the muslim fellows here to provide a more sufficient answer..

I think that Tahhara also means spiritual cleanliness. That one should rid his mind from all evil and sinful ideas. ( I am not sure though).

 

[EiNsTeiN]

I think that Tahhara also means spiritual cleanliness. That one should rid his mind from all evil and sinful ideas. ( I am not sure though).

I thought that too, but when Omar Ibn El Khattab read the Quran (before becoming a muslim), Hafsa ordered him to shower as to become Taher and be able to touch the Quran..

So, I think it's a physical issue rather than a spirtual one..

Well I think that hunting animals is allowed in Islam. However, there is a restriction that hunting should only be done for food, and that too when there are no alternatives. Hunting for fun ( needless slaughter) is not allowed.
Any muslim brothers, who think I am wrong? I actually read it somewhere but do not the authenticity of the source.

Not sure about that too...I remember in the Quran, eating never seemed to be a reason for hunting..
Don't know exactly

 

[kai]

Well, it's not "unclean"..
We have a concept in Islam called, "Tahara", which I don't know a crossponding english term!

There is a difference between a taher person and a clean person..

For example, many people clean themselves by toillete papers after they pee...Well, this could be clean, but it's not tahara...To became taher, you need to clean yourself by "water"..

Either water or sand that makes you taher...

Excretion is considered a najasa which isn't eliminated unless using water or sand..

Najasa doesn't mean dirty, and Taher doesn't mean clean....

I hope I explained a little, and I wish any of the muslim fellows here to provide a more sufficient answer..

thank you for that but please answer my question

 

[EiNsTeiN]

thank you for that but please answer my question

As I told brother MFaraz_Hayat, I think it's irrelevant..
since it seems that Tahara is a physical issue, and not a spirtual one..According to this,a kafer (or non believer) may not be najis all the time, he can be taher too..
Not sure though

 

[credance]

Could a Muslim be true to their scripture and at the same time really love me as a fellow human being when I would not speak with my mouth that I believe Muhammed to be the "seal of the prophets"? I believe the Quran tells me no. In fact I am sure the Quran says absolutely not.
The Quran is full of commands that attempt to insure the survival of Islam when in fact I believe it will be Islam's Achilles' heal.
In an Islamic society, where the Quran rules every aspect of a everyones life, people are forced to give lip service to the belief.
In ever society there are sheep and wolves among men. The sheep are there to be led to the slaughter and the wolves are there to lead them. The wolves battle among themselves to control the sheep and insure they follow the "one" truth that leads them to their objective.They stir up the emotions of the sheep with war and hatred. Death in this life and eternal damnation in the next for those who do not follow the status quo.
I know I sound prejudiced because I am and I don't want to be. I would like for the world to be at peace so we could all work together to make this a better life for everyone. Dear Muslims please prove me wrong and show me the error of my ways. I leave myself open for you to enlighten me to the love and peace of Islam.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Could a Muslim be true to their scripture and at the same time really love me as a fellow human being when I would not speak with my mouth that I believe Muhammed to be the "seal of the prophets"? I believe the Quran tells me no. In fact I am sure the Quran says absolutely not.
The Quran is full of commands that attempt to insure the survival of Islam when in fact I believe it will be Islam's Achilles' heal.
In an Islamic society, where the Quran rules every aspect of a everyones life, people are forced to give lip service to the belief.
In ever society there are sheep and wolves among men. The sheep are there to be led to the slaughter and the wolves are there to lead them. The wolves battle among themselves to control the sheep and insure they follow the "one" truth that leads them to their objective.They stir up the emotions of the sheep with war and hatred. Death in this life and eternal damnation in the next for those who do not follow the status quo.
I know I sound prejudiced because I am and I don't want to be. I would like for the world to be at peace so we could all work together to make this a better life for everyone. Dear Muslims please prove me wrong and show me the error of my ways. I leave myself open for you to enlighten me to the love and peace of Islam.

Well, I appreciate your post alot..

In my religion, I'm ordered to respect everyone, and to deal with ANYone peacfully disregarding his/her believes..

I will tell ya a story from the Seera (the life story of the prophet).
The prophet had a jewish neighbor, who used to throw rubbish and dirt infront of the prophet's house, as a sign for hatered..
Every day, the man threw those dirt, the prophet just removed them...Until a day came when the prophet didn't see any rabbish outside his door..

He asked the neigborhood about the jewish man, and they told him he was sick...
The prophet simply went to his house to check him out!

Another story, when the prophet captured Mekka, he just forgave every person there...
These people killed many muslims before, enslaved many others, and hurted the prophet alot in the past...and he just forgave them!

Through out the Islamic history, jews and christians as well as other minorities used to live peacfuly side by side with muslims...
I do have many christian and atheist friends here in Egypt, and sometimes they are very close to me..My religion never opposed that!..


That's it!

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Could a Muslim be true to their scripture and at the same time really love me as a fellow human being when I would not speak with my mouth that I believe Muhammed to be the "seal of the prophets"?

You can even not believe in God, and I would still love you!

 

[credance]

You can even not believe in God, and I would still love you!

You come across as a person with a good heart and I believe if I knew you I would love you too! Now, let's work on the rest of the world.:yes:

 

[EiNsTeiN]

You come across as a person with a good heart and I believe if I knew you I would love you too! Now, let's work on the rest of the world.:yes:

Sure..No problem with that

 

[credance]

Should we start by tearing down the barriers that the old religions have caused and ask God to send us a new message that maybe we will get right this time or should we leave religion out of ti?

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Well, I still think the religions got nothing to do with those barriers..
It's us (humans) who initiated the barriers..

You know what?...every single religion in this planet calls for coexistance and peace between the humanity...Then where did all this violence, hatered, and evil come from?!

It's all about missinterpreting those religions...
Actually, many other factors lead to such barriers as well, but it's always religion that is obvious, while the truth is that the golden rule of any religion is Peace!

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Nice!
- Based on what ideology do you explain the violence of some non Muslims?
- In the light of the ayaat you cited and what you said, how do you explain the violence of some Muslims towards their brothers and sisters in the religion and how is this based on the ideology of Islam?
- How do you reconcile this with the Islamic prohibition of murder and suicide and promising who commit those crimes with severe punishment?

not4me,
Thank you for responding to my post. I do not understand what your questions have to do with the point I made in my post, but I will answer them. I don't honestly know the answers to your questions, but here are my best guesses:

- Non Muslims commit acts of violence in the name of ideologies different from Islam, or for other reasons.
- Muslims who kill other Muslims ignore or rationalize the parts of the Quran/hadith which do not support their actions, and focus on those parts of the Quran/hadith which do support their actions
- Don't ask me, ask groups like Al-Quaida and Hamas, which use Islam as support for programs of both suicide and murder:

Definition of the Movement
Ideological Starting-Points​

Article One:

The Islamic Resistance Movement: The Movement's programme is Islam. From it, it draws its ideas, ways of thinking and understanding of the universe, life and man. It resorts to it for judgement in all its conduct, and it is inspired by it for guidance of its steps.

....

Article 13 ....

When did the infidels do justice to the believers?

"But the Jews will not be pleased with thee, neither the Christians, until thou follow their religion; say, The direction of Allah is the true direction. And verily if thou follow their desires, after the knowledge which hath been given thee, thou shalt find no patron or protector against Allah." (The Cow - verse 120).
​

There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. The Palestinian people know better than to consent to having their future, rights and fate toyed with. As in said in the honourable Hadith:

"The people of Syria are Allah's lash in His land. He wreaks His vengeance through them against whomsoever He wishes among His slaves It is unthinkable that those who are double-faced among them should prosper over the faithful. They will certainly die out of grief and desperation."
​

...

"I swear by the holder of Mohammed's soul that I would like to invade and be killed for the sake of Allah, then invade and be killed, and then invade again and be killed." (As related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).
​

Found on Hamas Charter
They don't seem to have any problem justifying their violence with Islam.

And here's a very important point: Even if you disagree with the way Hamas interprets Islam, and even if you can present different quotations to deconstruct their arguments; the mere fact that such interpretations are not uncommon shows that Islam's holy books are not the best and clearest guides to peace and love. If they were truly the best guides for peace and love, these interpretations should be impossible, and extremely rare; yet Muslims support suicide bombings and civilian targeting more than other religious groups, and many terrorist organizations quote Islam's holy books for support. Bottom line: sure, Muslims like you are peaceful and loving, but that is in spite of the fact that you believe the Creator of the Universe thinks "disbelievers" like me are "wrongdoers" and will be compelled "to the doom of Fire".

Islam's holy books could be improved. Lines like the ones Hamas quoted should be deleted; lines like "murdering non-combatants is always wrong" and "treat everyone equally, whether they are a believer or disbeliever" and "Allah loves everyone, even disbelievers" could be added; children should be taught that these are the words of humans, not God, and as such they sometimes get it wrong. But this sort of reform is prohibited by Islam, and that's the problem.

So what?! The believers who are being oppressed and whose families are being killed and kicked out of their homes by the disbelievers, after all this, don't you want them to ask for the help of their God and for victory? I am sorry but I haven't seen any kind of thinking like this before.

I sympathize with anyone who is killed or kicked out of their home, whether they are a believer or a disbeliever. Does Surah 2 say that? No. Instead, Surah 2 paints a picture of the world that essentially dehumanizes disbelievers, characterizes them as cruel and stupid, rejoices in subjugating them and rejoices in the idea that they will burn forever in hell.

Imagine if I believed that God said:

"The Muslims, they are the wrong-doers. They will be cast into the Fire! Struggle against the Muslims, and may God give us victory over them."
​

What would you think? Would teaching this to children be helpful for peace in the world?

About the ayaat of disbelief and hell fire; such Ayaat that establish an Islamic rule and reality that the punishment of disbelievers is not in this wordly life but in a life different from this one and the one who will judge them is their God (on a day of resurrection that you don't basically believe in) promotes violence? In other words, Islam establishes that it's not the job of the believers to judge the disbelievers but this is a thing between them and God, and then you tell me this promotes violence?
I ask again, if those verses about disbelief promote violence according to your claim, how do you explain the violence of some (FEW) Muslims including the suicide bombings against their brothers and sisters in faith?

I'm not saying it promotes violence, but it enables violence. Many of your fellow Muslims seem to agree with me. Go tell THEM that it doesn't promote violence. If I were you, I would be far more outraged at them for using Islam in this way, and not outraged at me for merely pointing this out.

Such conclusion leads me to ask; have you read/studied the entire Qur'an or the ahadeeth?

No, not in their entirety. But I don't need to know anything about those texts in order to know that: if we want to teach our children about tolerance, equality, separation of church and state, love and compassion, and so on, this could be accomplished without them memorizing one single line from the Quran or the hadith. This is manifestly true because there are many books (both fiction and nonfiction) from which we can learn these things. Have you read/studied the works of Plato, Martin Luther King, Buddha, Confucius, Shakespeare, Dostoevsky, Thomas Paine, Descartes....?

Even if parts of the Qur'an and hadith inspire tolerance, while others inspire intolerance, that is still a problem. It should ALL inspire tolerance.

Now, perhaps you would answer my these points which I made:

Consider, as one of many many examples, the case of the Red Mosque siege in Pakistan--little girls eager to become martyrs for God. The fact that the contents of the Quran and hadith are significantly responsible for their behavior is made clear by a simple thought experiment: imagine if everything were exactly the same, except the text which formed the basis of the school's ideology was, say, The Humanist Manifesto and its Aspirations. Or if their #1 figurehead was Ghandi instead of Muhammad. And so on.

....

Just compare the divinely-inspired, unalterable, superstitious list of insults and threats leveled at nonbelievers in Sura 2 VS. the clarity and sanity of the revisable Humanist Manifesto. Is it likely that any school for humanist little girls will end up like the Red Mosque? Will humanists like me ever be overwhelmed and frustrated by the number of terrorists--none of whom are "really" humanists--who make videos of themselves quoting the Humanist Manifesto, then go blow themselves up on a crowded bus?
​

 

[England my lionheart]

I have just watched a news item on afghani women,they were filming a market nd the police were canning the women,not all of them but quite a lot and they all had the burkas on.
This is a scene i have witnessed before and it is my perception of islam that it is dominated by men,instigated by a man and used as a power tool.
My perception is that it is not for anyone who wants to be truly free,the more i read about islam and hear from people who have witnessed the cruelty to women it makes me angry.
I have said before in this thread this is a book dictated by a man for the benefit of men and women certainly in afghanistan are second class that cannot be questioned and must be adhered to regardless.
If the qu'ran was perfect then all muslims would only see it one way and the fact that there are shia,sunnis etc proves that it is open to interpretation and therefore i believe a book written by God would be perfect.