What do you feel is wrong with Islam?

[Popeyesays]

Mr. Apinklwa,

So you honeatly believe that the Qur'an can be altered and modified by popular vote? Might as well ask Jews to do the same with the Torah, or Christians with the Gospels.

What you are missing is that the Qur'an was written for a specific people in a specific time and place. The words within will always be TRUE, but the interpretations of those words will devolve over time. Religions bloom, bear fruit, wither and die like any other natural phenomenon.

But that's okay, when the old word order crumbles God will provide a new one. THat you don't see it growing right now is your short-sightedness, not God's

Regards,
Scott

 

[Mr Spinkles]

You can even not believe in God, and I would still love you!

Thank you for that, Einstein. I believe in loving everyone, too, and of course that includes Muslims such as yourself. But the problem is that the Islamic holy texts are full of lines which do NOT seem to encourage love of disbelievers. Therefore, those Muslims who wish to treat disbelievers differently--legally or socially--will always find justification for their sentiments in their holy books. I have the same objection to the Bible, and many other books. In my opinion, we have better documents for teaching our children about loving everyone, documents which do not accuse any group of people of being evil and corrupt and worthy of God's eternal wrath.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Mr. Apinklwa,

So you honeatly believe that the Qur'an can be altered and modified by popular vote? Might as well ask Jews to do the same with the Torah, or Christians with the Gospels.

No, it can't be. But I'm not advocating that the Qur'an be modified as an historical document, I'm advocating that we not regard it as THE perfect and unalterable standard of living. Islam holds that it is, and that is a problem.

What you are missing is that the Qur'an was written for a specific people in a specific time and place. The words within will always be TRUE, but the interpretations of those words will devolve over time. Religions bloom, bear fruit, wither and die like any other natural phenomenon.

No, I'm not missing that, I understand that quite well. It is Islam that misses that.

But that's okay, when the old word order crumbles God will provide a new one. THat you don't see it growing right now is your short-sightedness, not God's

Okay...

 

[EiNsTeiN]

If the qu'ran was perfect then all muslims would only see it one way and the fact that there are shia,sunnis etc proves that it is open to interpretation and therefore i believe a book written by God would be perfect.

Dear England my lionheart,
There is nothing that could be seen one way, even the most perfect thing..
That's why there is perceptions and points of view..
Only when all the humans are created the same thing, then we will all view it similarly!

Thank you for that, Einstein. I believe in loving everyone, too, and of course that includes Muslims such as yourself. But the problem is that the Islamic holy texts are full of lines which do NOT seem to encourage love of disbelievers. Therefore, those Muslims who wish to treat disbelievers differently--legally or socially--will always find justification for their sentiments in their holy books. I have the same objection to the Bible, and many other books. In my opinion, we have better documents for teaching our children about loving everyone, documents which do not accuse any group of people of being evil and corrupt and worthy of God's eternal wrath.

I understand this is an issue to many..
But as Quran and Bible are ment to guide our lives in every known aspect, then we expect to find issues discussed there like war, fighting, hatered, pain, etc..
As well as finding other topics like love, peace, mercy, science, etc..

It's all about the timing and the synergy of the topics, which I believe is well preserved in the Quran..

No, it can't be. That's the problem.

No it's not....Since ever humans adapted anything "Godly" sent, it gets ruined!
Those holy texts are sent by God, and we humans are totally incomparable to Him, so we can't just edit what He proposed to us..

What you are missing is that the Qur'an was written for a specific people in a specific time and place. The words within will always be TRUE, but the interpretations of those words will devolve over time. Religions bloom, bear fruit, wither and die like any other natural phenomenon.

No, I'm not missing that, I understand that quite well. It is Islam that misses that.

Well, I won't argue Scott cuz he is a bahai' and they believe they came after Islam..
But according to my religion, Islam was sent to the entire humanity, and it perfectly suits every place and time, if just interpreted correctly..

Thanks

 

[England my lionheart]

Dear England my lionheart,
There is nothing that could be seen one way, even the most perfect thing..
That's why there is perceptions and points of view..
Only when all the humans are created the same thing, then we will all view it similarly!


I understand this is an issue to many..
But as Quran and Bible are ment to guide our lives in every known aspect, then we expect to find issues discussed there like war, fighting, hatered, pain, etc..
As well as finding other topics like love, peace, mercy, science, etc..

It's all about the timing and the synergy of the topics, which I believe is well preserved in the Quran..

No it's not....Since ever humans adapted anything "Godly" sent, it gets ruined!
Those holy texts are sent by God, and we humans are totally incomparable to Him, so we can't just edit what He proposed to us..



Well, I won't argue Scott cuz he is a bahai' and they believe they came after Islam..
But according to my religion, Islam was sent to the entire humanity, and it perfectly suits every place and time, if just interpreted correctly..

Thanks

How do you know that your perception is the right one ,the taliban believe theirs is the right one and so does a suicide bomber ,shias,sunnis etc.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

How do you know that your perception is the right one ,the taliban believe theirs is the right one and so does a suicide bomber ,shias,sunnis etc.

I have got my perception, and you got yours..
Thats why we are debating..

My interpretation of my religion told me I'm right...Their interpretation of our religion told them they are right..

Issues like these aren't settled except after sitting down, discussing and arguing both beliefs...Until either on the parties convince, or the two reach a compromise..

Thats why we are here in RF..

Also the same question would apply to you...How do you know that your perception is the right one?

Thanks

 

[England my lionheart]

i do not adhere to a religion

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Doesn't make a difference...You don't believe in religions...What makes you so sure they don't exist?...It's your perception too

 

[England my lionheart]

I see no reason to follow a religion as religious texts are written by men so how can you trust them.

 

[England my lionheart]

Doesn't make a difference...You don't believe in religions...What makes you so sure they don't exist?...It's your perception too

Religions obviously exist but are led by men not God

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Religions obviously exist but are led by men not God

So, do you believe in God?

 

[England my lionheart]

So, do you believe in God?

I believe there is much we think we know and a whole lot more of what we don't

 

[Panda]

I believe there is much we think we know and a whole lot more of what we don't

"What we know can fill a book, what we don't can fill a library" - Can't remember where that came from but I remember it.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

I believe there is much we think we know and a whole lot more of what we don't

Well, I do agree with that..
And even in Islam, we believe that our knowledge is just negligable compared to God's..

 

[Autodidact]

Well, I appreciate your post alot..

In my religion, I'm ordered to respect everyone, and to deal with ANYone peacfully disregarding his/her believes..

I will tell ya a story from the Seera (the life story of the prophet).
The prophet had a jewish neighbor, who used to throw rubbish and dirt infront of the prophet's house, as a sign for hatered..
Every day, the man threw those dirt, the prophet just removed them...Until a day came when the prophet didn't see any rabbish outside his door..

He asked the neigborhood about the jewish man, and they told him he was sick...
The prophet simply went to his house to check him out!

Another story, when the prophet captured Mekka, he just forgave every person there...
These people killed many muslims before, enslaved many others, and hurted the prophet alot in the past...and he just forgave them!

Through out the Islamic history, jews and christians as well as other minorities used to live peacfuly side by side with muslims...
I do have many christian and atheist friends here in Egypt, and sometimes they are very close to me..My religion never opposed that!..


That's it!

I love the idea that capturing a city is non-violent. That's hilarious.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

I love the idea that capturing a city is non-violent. That's hilarious.

You don't get it..don't you?!

Please check out the entire story before rushing the judge (as usual!)

 

[Autodidact]

You don't get it..don't you?!

Please check out the entire story before rushing the judge (as usual!)

O.K., did that. When Muhammed had gathered a big enough army, he conquered Mecca by force and kicked out the pre-existing religion. No army, no Islam. I suppose that's what Muslims call non-violent?

 

[EiNsTeiN]

O.K., did that. When Muhammed had gathered a big enough army, he conquered Mecca by force and kicked out the pre-existing religion. No army, no Islam. I suppose that's what Muslims call non-violent?

I do know that capturing cities need armies!
Thanks for the new info!

I'm talking about the entire story...the roots I mean...the details, and what so ever..\

BTW...non was killed or injured while capturing Mekka!!

See?...you haven't read for sure

 

[Popeyesays]

I do know that capturing cities need armies!
Thanks for the new info!

I'm talking about the entire story...the roots I mean...the details, and what so ever..\

BTW...non was killed or injured while capturing Mekka!!

See?...you haven't read for sure

For an excellent history of Islam, I recommend Hasan Balyuzi's Muhammed and the Course of Islam.

Islam often conquered territory by peaceful entry, Jerusalem is a good example.

Regards,
Scott

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Thanks Scott for the info.

BTW, capturing Mekka is considered one of the least violant wars ever in history (no single victim!)

And the emigration of the prophet and his companions is also considerd one of the most peacful ones in history..
No lossed from those who emigrated, and the country they emigrated to totally wellcomed them..