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What do you think about Quranists?

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Only for the religiously insane.

O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.
Quran 5:8

Allah commands justice, the doing of good, and liberality to kith and kin, and He forbids all shameful deeds, and injustice and rebellion: He instructs you, that ye may receive admonition.
Quran 16:90

All that's fine and good, but it doesn't erase the violent warmongering in the rest of the book.

Apparently, either Allah or Muhammad is pretty inconsistent.
 

Jedster

Flying through space
Quranists is muslims who believe that only the Quran is from God. They do not believe in any hadiths. Sunnis and shias believe in hadiths
@Starlight

I first came across Quaranists circa 1995 when I went online. They called themselves Submitters and were followers of Rashid Khalifa(until they weren't). I participated in docussions with them from 1995 until 2000 ish.

They considered Christians, Jews who followed the scriptures, also as Submitters.

I don't remember all their claims, but I do remember one that I never checked out because I thought it unimportant.
They claimed that the phrase Allāhu ʾakbar is not in the Quaran. They used another phrase(which I have forgotten) that was similar in meaning and in the Quaran.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
What do you think about Quranists?
What is wrong with them, please, right?
That is the question that is being offered for us to answer, @paarsurrey

I take it that you don't see anything wrong in Quranism, then?

I suppose that if one has to be a Muslim, then Quranism is about as valid a stance as any can be (and better than some).

But there are some reasonable objections that can be made to it. From here where I stand... well, frankly, the main objection is that it is indeed a form of Islam, meaning that it has entirely unreasonable and inacceptable premises about the role and meaning of god, religion and scripture.

But were I a Muslim, apparently I could point out in good faith that there are specifics that just are not clarified in the Qur'an alone.
There are three sources of guidance of Islam:

1. First, the Quran which is the Book of G-d.

2. Secondly, the practice/acts/deeds of the Holy Prophet; Quran has commandments for which practical and periodical action/illustration is required by Muhammad, these are called Sunnah, these are done continuously from the time of Muhammad with no break, so these are in a way and in this sense a part of the Quran.

3. The third source of guidance is hadeeth, by which we mean those traditions which were compiled from the statements of diverse narrators a century and a half after the Holy Prophet.

As the Holy Prophet was commissioned for the propagation of the Quran, he was also commissioned for establishing the sunnah.

Right?

Regards
 

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
Only for the religiously insane.

O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.
Quran 5:8

Allah commands justice, the doing of good, and liberality to kith and kin, and He forbids all shameful deeds, and injustice and rebellion: He instructs you, that ye may receive admonition.
Quran 16:90

Now read 5:33 for a description of what is good. Apparently killing and/or amputating the limbs of your enemies is 'good' and 'fair'.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
What do you think about Quranists?


There are three sources of guidance of Islam:

1. First, the Quran which is the Book of G-d.

2. Secondly, the practice/acts/deeds of the Holy Prophet; Quran has commandments for which practical and periodical action/illustration is required by Muhammad, these are called Sunnah, these are done continuously from the time of Muhammad with no break, so these are in a way and in this sense a part of the Quran.

3. The third source of guidance is hadeeth, by which we mean those traditions which were compiled from the statements of diverse narrators a century and a half after the Holy Prophet.

As the Holy Prophet was commissioned for the propagation of the Quran, he was also commissioned for establishing the sunnah.

Right?

Regards
Sounds like very orthodox Muslim belief, for all the good that it makes for a definite non-Muslim such as me to say so.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
What do you think about Quranists?
There are three sources of guidance of Islam:
1. First, the Quran which is the Book of G-d.
2. Secondly, the practice/acts/deeds of the Holy Prophet; Quran has commandments for which practical and periodical action/illustration is required by Muhammad, these are called Sunnah, these are done continuously from the time of Muhammad with no break, so these are in a way and in this sense a part of the Quran.
3. The third source of guidance is hadeeth, by which we mean those traditions which were compiled from the statements of diverse narrators a century and a half after the Holy Prophet.
As the Holy Prophet was commissioned for the propagation of the Quran, he was also commissioned for establishing the sunnah.
Right?
Sounds like very orthodox Muslim belief, for all the good that it makes for a definite non-Muslim such as me to say so.
Friend @LuisDantas .
I don't get one exactly, please, kindly elaborate for me.
What is one's question, please?

Regaards
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
What do you think about Quranists?


Friend @LuisDantas .
I don't get one exactly, please, kindly elaborate for me.
What is one's question, please?

Regaards
These are not necessarily the questions made by the OP, but since you show such good will, I will do my best.

You are saying that the guidance comes from the Qur'an, the Sunnah and the Ahadith. Fair enough.

What is Qur'anism then? Do you know or guess how, if at al, it contrasts with orthodox Islam?

How meaningful would the difference be? Would it involve some sort of disregard or seeking of alternatives for the Sunnah, the Ahadith or both?

From what I have seen, there is a very strong tendency in Muslims to emphasize that Ahadith can be untrustworthy and should never be considered at the expense of the Qur'an. That gives the general impression that Quranism may be mainly about emphasizing the Qur'an and avoiding reliance on any Ahadith. But I am so outside of Islam that I am probably mistaken here, or at the very least missing some significant nuance.

Do you see Quranism as a well-defined movement? Do you see it as compatible with Sunni and/or Shia Islam? Is Quranism in any way undesirable in Muslim communities?
 

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
Do you think that there are no just wars?

YHWH [is] a man of war: YHWH [is] his name.
Exodus 15:3

Yes I do. Israel is fighting one as we speak.

Anyone who thinks that killing people just because they follow the 'wrong' religion is ****ed in the head.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
Israel is indeed violently resisting an invasion.
You're conflating what the state of Israel is doing with what a just war would involve.

It is possible to violently resist an invasion without killing your own people or targeting the innocent on engaging in atrocity propaganda.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Quranists is muslims who believe that only the Quran is from God. They do not believe in any hadiths. Sunnis and shias believe in hadiths
I believe they are correct. I thinks hadiths can be treated the way protestants treat the apochrypha: finding it inteesting reading but not staking our theology on it.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
The Quran commands us to query the family of the reminder for guidance (including miracles and explanation to the Quran).

So it's disobeying the Quran.
I believe I must have missed that. I take it that is a loose interpretaion since most of the Hadiths are not written by fmaily members.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Yet they have been knocking the s*** out of each other for centuries.
Everyone has been. Read up. BUT, no one can beat the secular wars ever in any kind of history. Only 7% all wars in the history of mankind (recorded) were religiously motivated. And Christians have been knocking the s as you phrased it for a long long time as well mate and they have been murdering others since God only knows.

Thus, your passing comment is bias and irrelevant to the topic.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Twilight Hue said:
Yet they have been knocking the s*** out of each other for centuries.
Everyone has been. Read up. BUT, no one can beat the secular wars ever in any kind of history. Only 7% all wars in the history of mankind (recorded) were religiously motivated. And Christians have been knocking the s as you phrased it for a long long time as well mate and they have been murdering others since God only knows.

Thus, your passing comment is bias and irrelevant to the topic.
Just to add ^, and how many people were killed by Ashoka:

" The Kalinga war was a conflict between the Mauryan Empire under Ashoka and the state of Kalinga. Kalinga comprises present day states of Odisha and south-eastern Andhra Pradesh."
" What can be ascertained is that the level of violence and casualties were proportionally high. As per the Rock Edicts of Ashoka, one lakh people were killed in this war, several lakhs perished and a lakh and a half were taken prisoners. "

Ashoka the cruel Emperor
"Ashoka killed his elder brother Sushima the legitimate heir to throne and elder son of emperor Bindusara after 3-4 years of civil war. He also killed many of his other step brothers the exact number cannot be verified. Sushima was tricked into a live coal pit and was burnt to death."
1726082259341.png

Was Ashoka a Muslim and or terrorist, please, right?

Regards

 

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